Skip to main content
000000 000003 000006 000009 000012 000015 000018 000021 000024 000027 000030 000033 000036 000039 000042 000045 000048 000051 000054 000057 000060 000063 000066 000069 000072 000075 000078 000081 000084 000087 000090 000093 000096 000099 000102 000105 000108 000111 000114 000117 000120 000123 000126 000129 000132 000135 000138 000141 000144 000147 000150 000153 000156 000159 000162 000165 000168 000171 000174 000177 000180 000183 000186 000189 000192 000195 000198 000201 000204 000207 000210 000213 000216 000219 000222 000225 000228 000231 000234 000237 000240 000243 000246 000249 000252 000255 000258 000261 000264 000267 000270 000273 000276 000279 000282 000285 000288 000291 000294 000297 000300 000303 000306 000309 000312 000318 000321 000324 000327 000330 000333 000336 000339 000342 000345 000348 000351 000354 000357 000360 000363 000366 000369 000372 000375 000378 000381 000384 000387 000390 000393 000396 000399 000402 000405 000408 000411 000414 000417 000420 000423 000426 000429 000432 000435 000438 000441 000444 000447 000450 000453 000456 000459 000462 000465 000468 000471 000474 000477 000480 000483 000486 000489 000492 000495 000498 000501 000504 000507 000510 000513 000516 000519 000522 000525 000528 000531 000534 000537 000540 000543 000546 000549 000552 000555 000558 000561 000564 000567 000570 000573 000576 000579 000582 000585 000588 000591 000594 000597 000600 000603 000606 000609 000612 000615 000618 000621 000624 000627 000630 000633 000636 000639 000642 000645 000648 000651 000654 000657 000660 000663 000666 000669 000672 000675 000678 000681 000684 000687 000690 000693 000696 000699 000702 000705 000708 000711 000714 000717 000720 000723 000726 000729 000732 000735 000738 000741 000744 000747 000750 000753 000756 000759 000762 000765 000768 000771 000774 000777 000780 000783 000786 000789 000792 000795 000798 000801 000804 000807 000810 000813 000816 000819 000822 000825 000828 000831 000834 000837 000840 000843 000846 000849 000852 000855 000858 000861 000864 000867 000870 000873 000876 000879 000882
English French German Italian Spanish

1960 Navigator Rebuild Part TWO

Forums

So to make it more comfortable to follow an post I start part two of the story..

I found No 20873 rocker oilway grub screw(8) in the 1961/62 parts list. Guess these go into the holes on the spindle towers?

Thread size?

Does a sealing ring go between the head and push in headers?

None mentioned in the parts list.

Permalink

Grub Screw; the screw hole pictured seems bigger than the screw hole on a spare head I have here and it looks to be the same size as the rocker cover screws. The rocker cover screws on mine are 1/4" Whitworth but the grub screw is definitely smaller. It is impossible to measure in position but my guess is 3/16"and I would expect the thread to be Whitworth. Maybe someone knows better.

Front Pipes;these are just a push fit- no gasket or sealing ring.

Permalink

Here are a couple of pictures relating to '20873 rocker oilway grub screw'

There are 8 of them, two on each rocker post. They are normally installed at the factory after making the oilways to blank them off, and would not be expected to come out in service.

Having said that, I found this one had come out on its own on my most recent engine strip.

Permalink

Here are a couple of pictures relating to '20873 rocker oilway grub screw'

There are 8 of them, two on each rocker post. They are normally installed at the factory after making the oilways to blank them off, and would not be expected to come out in service.

Having said that, I found this one had come out on its own on my most recent engine strip.

Attachments 20873-2a-jpg
Permalink

Thanks Andy for the posts an pics. I wondered where the other for screws would go.. SInce I have NOS heads from Russell motors none of these grub scres were installed.

I have some Jubilee heads and was able to get two screws out.

 photo 15976f0c-1ec8-425c-9341-db58b9e3498f_zpsfp5sf1x5.jpg

Then I looked around my spare parts boxes and found one screw with the same size and thread.

 photo IMG_20170625_134210_zpsc1u6fv2f.jpg

I sawed it in half and so I had two other grub screws.

Ok, now I need for more, but no more screws..

Timing:

Seting at 30? I marked the rotor and housing.

 photo IMG_20170625_121807_zpsvzzss5sl.jpg

 photo IMG_20170625_125818_zpsi1dm7n1i.jpg

And I installed the pick up disc. There was a modified Commando pickup disc but this one I made for the lightweight ignition housing.

 photo IMG_20170625_125839_zpsahsrposd.jpg

Permalink

Hi Uli and Andy,

Your pictures of the grub screw are very useful. It immediately reminded me that I had seen a screw(as in Uli's picture) identical to this- it is the screw(3 of them) on the float bowl of the HS4 SU carburettors on my 1963 MGB. So I tried one of these MGB screws on the old Jubilee head and it almost certainly fits. I say almost certain as I cannot unscrew any of the old Norton screws and only a few threads are visible to test on. The screws on this head have been centre punched.

I measure the MGB carb screw as 3/16 of an inch UNC and it is 24TPI. These carbs were fitted to loads of old British motors of the sixties. So easy to get. Later HIF carbs are different.

Permalink

Not much progress here.

Managed to find a mudguard on ebay.uk and mounted it with the struts from the NOC shop. Need to weld shut the holes for the pedestrian slicer then ready for paint!

Hosted on Fotki

Hosted on Fotki

Sealing the tank inside with one component sealer what a sticky mess!

Permalink

Hello Uli,

It looks a decent front mudguard but a 1960's bike looks so much better with a 'proper' front number plate !. Maybe it is not legal to have this in Germany ?

Have you tried starting up yet?. You must be close on one year now into the rebuild. Doesn't time fly.

Permalink

Patrick,

I just got back my right header from Armours Ldt. It had a loose fit in the head but the new one is not much better. Will use some sort of sealer I guess. The front fork ist just a mockup with unknown chromed bridges to hold it together for fitting the mudguard. It is from an Atlas/Dominator. Therefore I cannot kickstart the bike. The original fork bridges an other hardware is still at my friend?s paintshop. This morning I asked the local "TÃV" (MOT) tester if a front license plate is allowed. He said if it was fitted originally it?s ok, but you cannot fit one if there was none originally. In Germany only pre-war bikes had the front plate. I don?t like it that much either...

Yes, time flies , hope to get it running soon.. Got all the parts but front and rear mudguard and tank still needs paint and the seat needs to be covered.

Permalink

Making some progress! My front mudguard bought on Ebay UK was looking good but turned out to be heavily corroded at the indents for the forks. All was covered with putty.

IMG-20170922-_WA0002

IMG-20170922-_WA0001

But it could be saved thanks to a polish master welder working at my friend?s paintshop.

IMG_20170927_101753

These parts were cut out and new indents were welded in.

IMG_20170927_101759

Other parts are aleady primered, waiting to be fillered and finished.

IMG_20170927_111117

IMG_20170927_111125

IMG_20170927_111129

IMG_20170927_111142

Permalink

That's a superb painting rig you have. I am jealous What paint are you using -2K, Cellulose or Water Based ? or Powder coat?

Permalink

Painting is done at my friend's professional paintshop.

Will have to ask what primer he is using.

But it is paint, no powdercoat.

Permalink

That is a nice paint set up. On another note: how did you get the photos to show up in your postings rather than just the usual link we see?

Permalink

What like this? ....... !!!

You have to click the HTML button above the box and paste in an HTML link from a suitable photo hosting site .. not photobucket ... grrr!

dan

Permalink

Hi Dan,

That is a tidy looking Navigator with a competition number up front. Is it one that is used for road trials ?

Patrick

Permalink

Hi Patrick, the number is a show number, it was at the Great Dorset Steam Rally, I stopped to pick up a M50 engine! It was very tidy, not far up the row there was a over head valve single being shown as an Inter .... couldnt find the owner to ask him about it!

Permalink

Before and after:

IMG_20171012_162627

IMG-20171011-_WA0000

After some messy 1,5 hours all four caps are shiny!

IMG-20171012-_WA0007

I borrowed a polishing motor with 750 watts which made the job quite easy.

IMG-20171012-_WA0005

Permalink

Ah yes but the helmet keeps the dirt out of my hair. My polisher is only an old drill which I clamp in the vice but it works amazingly well.

Permalink

Yesterday I got the painted parts for the fork.

IMG_20171024_131553

Today I started assembling the fork. Firstly fixing the balls on the races with grease.

IMG-20171026-_WA0004

IMG-20171026-_WA0006

First try went wrong, two balls fell out the lover race and destroyed it while I was tightening the fork crown nut. These ball races do not seem to be very hard? So I used the better one of the old ones.

IMG-20171026-_WA0010

Success on second try!

IMG-20171026-_WA0012

No on to the spring cover tubes. I glued the leather seal to the fixing ring or else you go crazy aligning the whole stuff with the screw holes while putting it into the tube!

IMG-20171026-_WA0016

IMG-20171026-_WA0018

After sliding in the fork stanchions I fitted the upper bridge and had to shim it to get

everthing aligned. Without the shims the upper bridge does not sit on the crown nut.

I used two washers for the fork tube plugs.

Did I miss something? Upper ball race-dustcover-fork crown nut.

IMG_20171026_153549

Not sure if I stick with these handlebars or go for the straight "drag" bars I also have.

IMG-20171026-_WA0037

Permalink

I guess I found the solution: When rebuilding the fork I only had the diagram out of the 1961 Navigator parts list for the roadholder fork. Later I looked at the early commando Fastback parts list and at the diagram at the Andover Norton site. There is a spacer between the upper ball race and the dustcover. I did not put that in so the fork crown nut sits too deep. Well, I have to dismantle the fork again praying for the balls not falling into the steering head again.

Permalink

Hi Ulrich...

There is no spacer UNDER the dust cover. You have the two washers shown in last but but one photo - wrong way round. The fat washer goes UNDER the blue fork crown, and the thin washer goes under the top chrome nut. See photo of my (rusty) Electra...

Attachments p5010040-1-jpg
Permalink

So the rear mudguard fits fairly well.

It is not original you can tell by the gap at the chainguard but I had no better.

IMG_20171127_080026

Here is the setup with the spacers and a selfmade rubber washer. Are these spacers also painted dove gray?

IMG_20171127_080017

The front one is another story..

Looking good from the side

IMG_20171127_164105

But not from the top:

IMG_20171127_163736

The fork shrouds already hit the mudguard . The indents at the siede are too shallow. I did not realize the shrouds having a larger diameter than the chromed fork extension. They were not at hand while testfitting.

Back to the welder an painter...

Or getting wider triple trees? I have the 7 inch ones.

Permalink

Wider trees will need a wider slider and top yoke, or find an earlier narrow guard.Or cut a 3/8th strip down the center of the guard and weld back together!!.

Permalink

Oh that is a shame as it was looking so good. But you have overcome bigger problems !.

IF you know a well equipped machine shop with the right hydraulic press equipment it should be possible to press the mudguard indents deeper with minimal damage to the paintwork and IF the paint was oven cured 2K you might get away without a respray. But that's two big IFs .

Yes you can change to the 7 3/8" yokes but that will be a very costly option unless you hit lucky. The later model Electra had the wider yokes and is the same as Dominator as far as I know.

Patrick

Permalink

Fritz, these are also the yokes also for early commando .

I have them on my 1970 Commando Roadster.

I already looked for them on the internet. Top ones are available but no bottom ones at the moment.

Patrick, the paint is from my friend?s automotive paint shop. It is 2K.

To press the indents deeper a special form will be required I guess.

I?ll talk to my friend and see what he suggests.

Permalink

Previously Ulrich Hoffmann wrote:

Fritz, these are also the yokes also for early commando .

I've found some here https://www.mortons.co.uk/cbc/obm/classifieds/classdemo.php?ID=6131, searched in the browser for the term ?yoke?. The third hit is interesting

Then I've found one from Mick Hemmings (it's the part-no from the 1968-1970 Commando)

Fritz

Attachments mick-hemmings-retailpricelist-p13-pdf
Permalink

Dan ,

if you look at my avatar you see the Navvi as I got it with a generic alloy front mudguard. I can still use that but I like the original one better.

The employee in my friends paint shop welded the indents new .

Form was taken off the old rusted ones.

Anyway, will have it fixed and will report.

Back to another question: are the spacers for the rear mudguard also painted dove gray?

Permalink

Hi Ulrich, You will probably find that you have to re-make the bridge to the guard as well. Shame really as the correct narrow valenced early slimline guards are scarce but do turn up. I have a couple and need a wide guard!!.

Permalink

Uli, how will you attach the seat with those spacers there? I thought they were for the delux, but Iâm quite often wrong on such matters! My seat bolts to the back of the top shock bolt.

Permalink

Previously Ulrich Hoffmann wrote:

Back to another question: are the spacers for the rear mudguard also painted dove gray?

Hi Ulrich.

For a standard lightweight the spacer arrangement is as your photo, but there was never a rubber washer between the long spacer and the mudguard. The original finish on the spacers was zinc plated and passivated to give the grey finish seen on many fasteners. If you have stainless spacers, I'd just leave them.

Obviously Norton/AMC did not want the hassle of painting spacers to match different frame colour options. Same with the frame spacers at headstock and lower downtube.

Won't the spacer crush the paint on the mudguard and damage it? Probably, but AMC could get their cellulose paint on very thinly.

All the best

Peter

Permalink

Hi Dan,

I am sure that Uli is correct; there are two spacers there, one short and one long, and the seat leg fits between them. But you are also right as most people simple do the simple thing and make one slightly longer spacer.

Patrick

Permalink

Carrying on from Peter's observations I believe that all the early frames -pre 1963- were always painted in Dove Grey so my choice would be to paint the spacers. The black frame came in 1963 and two tone was then an option. That's just my opinion and could be wrong. Whatever you do it's right- it's your bike.

 

Norton Owners Club Website by White-Hot Design

Privacy Policy