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Wheel building

I am planning to have two Norton full width hubs built up with new alloy valanced rims etc. can anybody advise me on good or bad individuals/companies to carry out this task please.

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Have a go yourself? It's pretty straightforward and can be quite therapeutic. If you follow the instructions in The Vintage Motorcyclist's Workshop it's easy.

I've done about 8 wheels now so am no expert but have enjoyed building them.

Otherwise I've had good service from Central Wheel who know their stuff.

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I did the front wheel of my ES2 using a full width hub myself as it was about the only bit of repairing bikes that I'd never done. It turned out ok and wasn't as difficult as I thought it might be. There are loads of youtube videos showing you how to do it.

Ian

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I have built five wheels, One problem was I could not follow the orriginal Norton spoke pattern on my first slimline wheel as Central had changed the pattern! This annoyed me so I got my second wheel from an old builder who still had the orriginal pattern rim . Chrome soon rusted so go for stainless or ally.Valenced rims hold water and dirt and are harder to clean.I was dissapointed to be unable to obtain butted spokes(like the orriginals) at that time.I would not attempt a disc braked Norton Wheel.

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I am building a pair of wheels for my Matchless G80cstomorrow, I had triple plate chrome rims and unpolished stainless spokes from Central Wheel very good service. I have used Devon rim in the past but I think there is a new person in sales and I didn't get much sense hence I went to Central.

Always send a labelled sample of each spoke even if they are the same and keep a labelled set for your self, also send photos of rim pattern around the valve area so the spoke pattern is the same.

Always take as many photos as you can of rims and spokes before you strip them down, rebuilding a wheel isn't difficult and as said before it is rewarding.

Colin

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I have a friend who has built all my wheels since Ray chase in Ripon, died.

I have used Devon stainless Rims and spokes, they are top quality. I have also used Hagon rims and spokes but had issues with Central rims being out of true, so didn't bother there any more. I also bought an excellent though expensive ally rim from SRM.

If you are not doing the job yourself and you are down South: Assuming Mr Smith is still out of retirement, I can't think of anywhere better than Hagon for wheels.

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hello I bought a new devon rim for the front wheel its chrome was coming off within 12 months, and it was not cheap ether So I never buy Devon anything any more Birmingham rims are a lotbetter the other rims I boughtwere from a cental wheel at the same timetheir chrome is ok and has not pealed or pitted or blemishes and I have an original Dunloprim that'swell over 60 years old and the chrome is as good as new

and I build my own wheels so can you if you have the patiences yours anna j

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Dan, open all hours. Bloody heating system knackered and all this catastrophic CO2 global warming not helping Brrrrr. Darn politicians!

Anna, while I have chrome rims on my 16h and a show chrome original front on my Commando, all in excellent shape, I wouldn't buy Chromed rims any more. But at least there is a choice!

My Devon stainless rim on the rear of my commando, along with stainless spokes have been on there over 20 years and excellent quality.

I believe the preparation to steel rims 60 years ago was more substantial than today's penny pinching drivers. Remember the reason why R T Shelley bought Norton back in the 20's! Quality comes at a price and like water temperature, change comes very slowly. Algore could learn something from that! (If only the science wasn't settled) HA HA.

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Hi Neil ,What heating system do you have?, I have installed my own systems and kept other very old systems going with pump , burner and fan replacements,all off grid of course, after a sucession of useless professionals cocked it up. May be able to point you in the right direction.

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Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi Neil ,What heating system do you have?, I have installed my own systems and kept other very old systems going with pump , burner and fan replacements,all off grid of course, after a succession of useless professionals cocked it up. May be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks Robert: It is all in hand, It is a Johnson-Starley warm air system, made in Northampton. It is 39 years old and I have serviced it for the last 30 years. It has been on the way out for the last couple of years and just sods law it packed up just pre mid winter and worst, during a cold spell we were all told was a thing of the past. I was told 'you won't' get spares for that, it is obsolete.' I should have looked harder.

Anyway, I have found that Johnson-Starley make a direct replacement for mine so ordered one for delivery next Friday. Not cheap but if I can get another 39 years out of this one I'll be happy as well as cosy!

What's that you say...39 years more? Well, our politicians are telling us that we are ALL living for longer. The reason they are stealing our pensions and here's me thinking it was because they had spent all the money.

In the meantime I'm giving the microwave a rest and cooking in the bottom oven, boy that baby can kick out some heat when you open the oven door. But don't tell the Princess of Darkness...Caroline Lucas!!!!!

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I have a couple of Electric fan heaters for emergency use and a Gas log fire if needed,I don't ever rely on one form of heating or cooking.Or one set of wheels!.

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Hi Robert, I have a gas fir downstairs, a fan heater up stairs, a skirting board heater in the sun lounge a fan heater and space heater in the workshop and I just remembered I have an electric heater in the hall way.

Add to that I have army compo ration cooking blocks if the electric goes off (Taking the gas central heating with it) and candles and wind up lights and radio too.

I was at a friends the other night who has oil central heating BUT it is driven by electricity. I suggested a calor gas portable heater or there will be no heating other than sit in the car with the motor running if the lights go out.

I say all this because the government are determined to shut down Eggborough power station next Spring, 4% of the nations electricity. And now renewable targets are to be scrapped. (Is ethanol too big to fail?) The windmills around the Lake district are to come down next year, others will follow!!!

I'm certain the lights will go out big style and unless we lock up the anti fracking obstructing nut jobs now, that day will come even quicker.

Now ask yourself where the power will come from to charge all these new electric cars and where will the cash come from to pay the £5,000 subsidy on each new one sold in the UK?

The Global Warming industry is worth £1.15 Trillion a year. This money is mostly paid to the most wealth, paid for by some of the poorest who sometimes have to choose between heating and eating and supported by the misguided, misinformed and establishment.

Oh, I have my old Commando wheels in the shed and a new pair of wheels ready for my final project, a 500cc slimline Dommie racer to be built with ally rims from Hagon. Just need to get this ten year project with the famous Aussie engine plates finished! (Should I live that long?)

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What do you lot use to hold the wheel during the re-building process? With bicycle wheels it's easy enough to just turn the bike upside down and use the fork ends as a building rig but I don't much fancy trying the same trick with a motorbike!

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I have a simple rig made out of chipboard that's fine for both rim truing and balancing.

Oh, and by the way, can we keep the "political" rants where they belong please?

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Thanks Ian. That looks to be within even my rudimentary fabrication skills. As soon as I can source a new front rim for the bike (a non-Norton, CB77) I'll get cracking.

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi Neil ,What heating system do you have?, I have installed my own systems and kept other very old systems going with pump , burner and fan replacements,all off grid of course, after a succession of useless professionals cocked it up. May be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks Robert: It is all in hand, It is a Johnson-Starley warm air system, made in Northampton. It is 39 years old and I have serviced it for the last 30 years. It has been on the way out for the last couple of years and just sods law it packed up just pre mid winter and worst, during a cold spell we were all told was a thing of the past. I was told 'you won't' get spares for that, it is obsolete.' I should have looked harder.

Anyway, I have found that Johnson-Starley make a direct replacement for mine so ordered one for delivery next Friday. Not cheap but if I can get another 39 years out of this one I'll be happy as well as cosy!

What's that you say...39 years more? Well, our politicians are telling us that we are ALL living for longer. The reason they are stealing our pensions and here's me thinking it was because they had spent all the money.

In the meantime I'm giving the microwave a rest and cooking in the bottom oven, boy that baby can kick out some heat when you open the oven door. But don't tell the Princess of Darkness...Caroline Lucas!!!!!

Very interesting but WTF has this got to do with wheel building !!

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Sorry prob my fault, Neil is easily distracted ;) and I asked him what he was doing up in the early hours, it stated from there!

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Howard - just to say that it's MDF not chipboard (slip of the memory). Rough and ready but I've used it several times.

You may also be interested in this which is a variation on the basic jig described in the Vintage Motorcyclists' Workshop.

This is one I originally made for a Norton Model 18 but have modified over the years and I believe setup shown was for a BSA A10 rear wheel. The second picture shows the rim in position.

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Previously robert_tuck wrote:

Hi Neil ,What heating system do you have?, I have installed my own systems and kept other very old systems going with pump , burner and fan replacements,all off grid of course, after a succession of useless professionals cocked it up. May be able to point you in the right direction.

Thanks Robert: It is all in hand, It is a Johnson-Starley warm air system, made in Northampton. It is 39 years old and I have serviced it for the last 30 years. It has been on the way out for the last couple of years and just sods law it packed up just pre mid winter and worst, during a cold spell we were all told was a thing of the past. I was told 'you won't' get spares for that, it is obsolete.' I should have looked harder.

Anyway, I have found that Johnson-Starley make a direct replacement for mine so ordered one for delivery next Friday. Not cheap but if I can get another 39 years out of this one I'll be happy as well as cosy!

What's that you say...39 years more? Well, our politicians are telling us that we are ALL living for longer. The reason they are stealing our pensions and here's me thinking it was because they had spent all the money.

In the meantime I'm giving the microwave a rest and cooking in the bottom oven, boy that baby can kick out some heat when you open the oven door. But don't tell the Princess of Darkness...Caroline Lucas!!!!!

Hello Someone has some skills in this club in plumping.! These warm air ducting were a waste of time and money, oil heaters are much better, back in the 1960s at Goole loco depot we had a 1888 L&Y 0-6-0 Boiler for hot water and heating around the shed with 12-foot by 4 foot cast iron long radiators connected up with 4 inch dia steel pipework all the way around the shedand offices and mess room and storerooms engineering shop in winter it was the warmest loco shed around the good old days of steam and warm oil yours anna j

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Its off topic I know,but nothing is more important than keeping your family warm dry and safe,then helping others do the same.

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Very interesting. I tried a wheel build once but it all went very wobbly. Got cross and took it to the local chap. But, Ian's wooden jig is obviously the easy way to get it started (thank you Ian) and then put it on a rotating spindle for final truing.

How important are the angles of holes drilled in the rim dimples? For example, if a 19"rim is drilled for a 40 hole Norton pattern, will that fit acceptably on an early small hub with drum bolted on, as well as a later full width hub?

Norm

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Thanks Anna, but at this time of year a direct replacement was the right decision, fitted in a day.

You are correct, Robert. 40,000 people in the UK will die from cold related illness this Winter. Still, got to keep the wheels turning.

You can actually buy a wheel building jig if you don't fancy making one. I nearly did when one came up at auction a couple of years ago. The spindle even ran on bearings.

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Previously norman_lorton wrote:

How important are the angles of holes drilled in the rim dimples? For example, if a 19"rim is drilled for a 40 hole Norton pattern, will that fit acceptably on an early small hub with drum bolted on, as well as a later full width hub?

Norm

In theory, they are very important but I'm not sure in practice whether a small difference in angle would cause problems. If you look at the dimples, they have a semi-circular profile which may allow the nipples to find their own position.

But I haven't put my theory to the test. The A10 wheels I did both had full width hubs and the rims I bought (from ebay) were stated to fit both ends.

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It depends on the spoke pattern, my yam had 3 cross and the rim needed to be drilled to allow the spokes to move suffiently. Another was from a full width hub but fitted to a single sided hub, that too needed fettling to make it fit.

dan

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The angle of the drilling (known as the piercing) is very important. If it is out, it will create a bend in the spoke. In some cases the "inner" layer of spokes may have a different piercing from the "outer" as well as from each side of the wheel.

Colin

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Thanks Anna, but at this time of year a direct replacement was the right decision, fitted in a day.

You are correct, Robert. 40,000 people in the UK will die from cold related illness this Winter. Still, got to keep the wheels turning.

You can actually buy a wheel building jig if you don't fancy making one. I nearly did when one came up at auction a couple of years ago. The spindle even ran on bearings.

Hello the reasonwhy peopleget more cold at wintertime is they always going to the Doctor were you end up with more infection just by sitting in the waiting room, I never go to see a Doctoror Quak's I turned to Herbs and Mother Nature never get any cold, or flu Cannabisoil orHemp oil is the best thing ever at one time they did hemp petrol and a had more bang for your buck$ the fibers from hemp made car body shells for Ford In the 1940s even wheels rims were made from hemp fibers and hard resin yours anna j

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Glad you got the word wheels in there Anna or there might have been a backlash. You are correct of course; Dr surgeries and hospitals are full of sick people, unfortunately, so are aircraft. I had Lady Mucus sat behind me on a recent flight from US of A to Manchester, same air going round! Circulating like a wheel...

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Previously colin_mosley wrote:

The angle of the drilling (known as the piercing) is very important. If it is out, it will create a bend in the spoke. In some cases the "inner" layer of spokes may have a different piercing from the "outer" as well as from each side of the wheel.

Colin

Well if this is professional wheel building practice then it is very interesting to note. So a series of four holes will each have different drilling angles: left inner, right outer, left outer and right inner, repeated ten times on a 40 hole rim. Phew, so how does one identify the start hole and how do you detect the small differences in angle?

I thought perhaps that the nipple heads were rounded so that they would find their own seating in the rim dimple, give or take 10 degrees, and the drillings had a bit of slack. Obviously not.

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Its best to leave the old wheel intact till you get the new rim, you can then put them side by side to check they are the same (and the right way round!) .This only works if the rim maker knows what he is doing. I had a problem years ago with Central who were drilling rims to the pattern that Norton AMC used. These were different to the pattern that Norton Bracebridge St used. Central would not admit there was a difference so in the end I had to lace up to the later pattern and I now have a different pattern on the front to that on the back. So if you can't follow the old pattern on an older Norton ,now you know why. Its also possible that Central now supply the right pattern as required??,after all we do live and learn.

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Insert a spoke into one of the holes and thread a nipple on. On most rims, the first spoke from the same side of the wheel to cross will be two holes away (i.e one empty hole between). The piercing for this is normally quite clear. Insert a second spoke into this hole and thread on a nipple. Push firmly on both nipples from the tyre side of the rim. The spokes should cross about half down their length. Note the distance across their inner ends.

Repeat this for the other side of the wheel. If the distance is bigger, this is the side for the brake drum on half width hubs or vice versa.

For each pair of spokes, leave them in the same holes but make them cross either on top or underneath each other. If the piercing is different for the inner or outer layer, this will become apparent as they may interfere with each other.

Colin

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Good tip Colin.

I'll be getting the rims on my ES2 rechromed as they're original (I think - need to check) but will be using the jig to start with. My concern is that by the time they've been polished and replated any marks I've made showing orientation and direction will have vanished.......

I mark where the valve hole in the rim comes on the jig so if I also mark the hub then at least I can get them in something like the correct orientation to start with.

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In reference to Anna's recommendation of cannabis oil or hemp oil to cure a cold. If you use one of these methods you might not cure the cold but you will not give a damn!

Mike

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

Iâm about to do the same, and am undecided between Central Wheel and Devon Rims.

Dont forget that if you go to Central Wheel and mention you are a member of the NOC you get a 5% discount.

I don;t know about Devon Rims.

Tony

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Previously Tony Ripley wrote:

Previously Dan Field wrote:

Iâm about to do the same, and am undecided between Central Wheel and Devon Rims.

Dont forget that if you go to Central Wheel and mention you are a member of the NOC you get a 5% discount.

I don;t know about Devon Rims.

Tony

Hello TONY if my front rim is anything to go by then I would give Devon rims a big miss , In time I am going to have to change out the Front rim maybe for a stainless one as with the two year it was on my bike the chome that supost to be that deep that you not get to the bottom , well its flaked off in parts with some ease its never see the chroming tub or it was a quick dip and polish and that was it, and they have not cleaned the rust off before it was chromed, and it was expensive rip off too DEVON RIMS Not likey Big mistake on my part buying one, I will sick like Glue to CWS birmingham they can be relied on , yours anna j

 

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