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New 650 Scrambler anyone?

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Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/november/norton-650-scrambler-supersport/

Or a super-charged version with 175 BHP?

Well if its anything like the Commando I go buy a new Royal Enfield 650twin has it will be cheaper and more reliable sorry to say this as I am a hardened Norton fan for well over 45 years so this to me is a sad end Yours anna J

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Doesnât do it for me, It needs a longer rear mudguard imho. I think The Ducati and Triumph are better looking scramblers. Shame, but then Iâll not be buying one so itâs not me they need to please!

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Previously patrick_mullen wrote:

Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2017/november/norton-650-scrambler-supersport/

Or a super-charged version with 175 BHP?

175 BHP from 650cc sounds far fetched - that's 269bhp per litre. The Ferrari GTB can only produce 661bhp from a twin turbo 3.9 V8.= 169bhp per litre.

Hello I think someone has come up with a load of BS Norton New 650 looks more like the Kawasaki ER650twin modern bike As there called But sadly Not for Me And I think Norton 20 years late with this platform as they call it sounds more like a railway station

then a motorcycle concept, yours anna j

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I'll be keen on one if they get the styling sorted, but the short rear end doesn't do it for me on the initial pics.

The HP figures also sound optimistic from here - but 70HP on a small road bike is plenty so i wont be hanging out for the rocketship version.

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The Duke looks fun, but alas also too modern for my tastes. However, in the 70s there was a very cool looking Lecturer dude at Wigan technical College, who rode a yellow, Ducati scrambler, with the glass inspection cover in the head, I think it was a 450 single! I use to park my D10 4 speed bantam next to it!

Then later on I rode a 441 BSA and moved up a little on the cool scale!

Cheers

John H

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Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

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Previously philip_baker wrote:

Have to confess, as a regular builder of Commandos I ride this (see photo) with huge enjoyment:

Hello yes now this Ducatiscrambler it a proper bike and better than anything from Norton I am afraidto say sad really they are trying but getting their concepts in the wrong ballpark so to say,

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Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

hello do you not mean assembled in the UK all the parts are made in other countries the frame is ccm and running components, the engine will be made in China not to say China make some very good stuff like locomotives yours anna j

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

I ride this with equal enjoyment!

Hello Dan a very good machine I had many Bultaco's they did do a nice road bike and did race at one time , yours anna j

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Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Now here a view of the NEW BSA From India This looks a neater concept For New Bike off-roaders Yours Anna J

And More concepts motorcycle for 2018 from Kawasaki 650 and CCM Concept you may see some resemblance to the New Norton 650 scrambler concept yours anna j

Attachments ccm-spitfire-flattracker.jpg kawasaki-scrambler-jpg
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The only thing Norton about them is the name - as is the case with new BSAs on their way. They are all modern bikes to modern standards, quite different to the ancient well-past-their-scrap-by-date relics many of us ride. If you are in the market for a new machine, I don't know how much the name on the tank will influence you. At least 961s look like Nortons and are make in the UK.

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the photo of the Norton scrambler looks great. its has been said the styling needs to look right

looking at that view of it the only things to me that stand out are the headlamp looks a bit to small the side panel looks dated. also think it would look better if only the Norton lettering was chrome and not the whole cover on the engine. minor details i know.

anyway see what it looks like at the end of the day. smiley

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Previously Gordon Johnston wrote:

The only thing Norton about them is the name - as is the case with new BSAs on their way. They are all modern bikes to modern standards, quite different to the ancient well-past-their-scrap-by-date relics many of us ride. If you are in the market for a new machine, I don't know how much the name on the tank will influence you. At least 961s look like Nortons and are make in the UK.

Hello only assembled In the UK all parts are made in other countries like Italyand Sweden Indianand China the only thing Britishin the old name of Norton! there nothing much made in this countryanymore! Even 60163 Tornado Peppercorn A1 class her boiler was made in East Germany at Meiringen locomotive works, your all luck to own a Bracebridge street workshops Machine they were the pinnacle of British manufacture! your anna j

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A couple words that stand out on this NEW 650 in the write up

'the frame has plates to improve the ridgeness and stiffness' that sounds like a familiar tale, the Electra from 1964 had such plates fitted to make the Francis Barnett frame more rigid and stiffer'!

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There must be Political reasons why we can't manufacture in total, anything semi-decent here any more?

Asset stripping probably started a long time ago and Royal Enfield at Redditch was a victim of it's land values being higher than it's primary production output! The selling off of industrial assets and land really started to gather pace in the 80s. BSA crashed through leaked reports and this pointed out dramatically how Share-holder concerns can break a Company overnight! Having said that it appears it was dreadfully managed on all accounts and people should have been concerned! And some insiders profited from the break up and selling off of BSA's profitable sectors!

The death of Manufacturing probably started in the 60s, but I think since the Rio Earth Summit when Global Warming, became a Primary concern of the Governments in the West (Germany, perhaps as an exception, modernised and persisted with manufacturing), and the USA generally ditched their industrial heritage to satisfy perceived Climate demands with regards to CO2 production, then unproven and still now technically unprovable!

However, this also served as a catalyst for Investors to move abroad and guess what the shift caused a huge rise in profits!

it is my view that machines have a kind of "soul" from the ethos and component parts that come together to make them and the mental input that designed them and in the construction processes!

Perhaps this is why we find old motorcycles manufactured in our homeland, a little more satisfying and less alien? Because we empathise with them, in that the very atoms and molecules in the machines, have been drawn in the main, (or used to be), from the dust and metals of our Home nation, just like our biological bodies!

In Practice Week @ the TT's, for two nights I walked round the paddocks and stood looking at the Norton machines, there were people around from Japan, Germany, Holland, Manxland and the UK and they, (the Norton Staff), failed to even attempt to have a conversation with anyone, which I thought was a little short-sighted and disappointing!

** When I say "soul",it is hard to find words for this concept, I first came across the idea in Far eastern cultures, may be it is more like an "/energy/essence", I later found that this concept was also considered in the West a long time ago when things were made and fashioned by hand, Musical instruments, Harps, Horns, "Oliphant", Song of Roland; Swords/ Bows/daggers in particular are a good examples and many were given Names, "Hrunting", in Beowulf would be a prime example!

Having built a few bikes when you get to the moment whereby the are filled up with oil and fuel and electricity kits in, then it is almost like a birthing procedure, in that the creation once fired up seems in a mechanical way to exhibit characteristics of a living thing. this concept only works when things are complete and run as they should be, this essence seems to fade away in unused Museum pieces , until they are brought to "Life" again!

Cheers

John H

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Previously john_hall1 wrote:

There must be Political reasons why we can't manufacture in total, anything semi-decent here any more?

Asset stripping probably started a long time ago and Royal Enfield at Redditch was a victim of it's land values being higher than it's primary production output! The selling off of industrial assets and land really started to gather pace in the 80s. BSA crashed through leaked reports and this pointed out dramatically how Share-holder concerns can break a Company overnight! Having said that it appears it was dreadfully managed on all accounts and people should have been concerned! And some insiders profited from the break up and selling off of BSA's profitable sectors!

The death of Manufacturing probably started in the 60s, but I think since the Rio Earth Summit when Global Warming, became a Primary concern of the Governments in the West (Germany, perhaps as an exception, modernised and persisted with manufacturing), and the USA generally ditched their industrial heritage to satisfy perceived Climate demands with regards to CO2 production, then unproven and still now technically unprovable!

However, this also served as a catalyst for Investors to move abroad and guess what the shift caused a huge rise in profits!

it is my view that machines have a kind of "soul" from the ethos and component parts that come together to make them and the mental input that designed them and in the construction processes!

Perhaps this is why we find old motorcycles manufactured in our homeland, a little more satisfying and less alien? Because we empathise with them, in that the very atoms and molecules in the machines, have been drawn in the main, (or used to be), from the dust and metals of our Home nation, just like our biological bodies!

In Practice Week @ thr TT's, for two nights I walked round the paddocks and stood looking at the Norton machines there were people around from Japan, Germany, Holland, Manxland and the UK and they, (the Norton Staff), failed to even attempt to have a conversation with anyone, which I thought was a little short-sighted and disappointing!

Cheers

John H

Hello, John, your long comment are whole so True and paints a very dark picture on the Home manufacturing well yes it did all start around the mid-1960s like the railways at the time were also suffering in a big way and so was all manufacturing has history tell us Britainwas an up evil with miners and power station works and the unions, job were being loosed and the becauseof the Labour party at this time were weak and run by backward thinking individuals, back then on the railways diesel's were clean and the way forward, and there was a motorway building progam, And look were this all got us today 50 years on and polictans have lernt nothing, and are still backward thinking with an out of date high speed 2 railway ats cost the tax payer a bomb where now a trillion or two in debit with every thing else we arether sink or swim we need a new birth in manufacturing with new hight technology but this new 650 is NOT new technology its old tech new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles, yes motorcycles that can power them selfs as there runnig they regenarate their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not! yours anna j, Dixon

Attachments e02b29b136883796b787c09547dd4ce6-futuristic-vehicles-art-google.jpg
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Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles, yes motorcycles that can power them selfs as there runnig they regenarate their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not! yours anna j, Dixon

I have to disagree!

Electric vehicles cannot power themselves, yes they can use energy recovery instead of braking a la Formula 1 cars, but that only works if you don't ease off the throttle to slow down as most people do. If using an energy recovery system the power has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the power that has been put in to create acceleration and speed.

Also a myth (I'm surprised at you Anna) is that electric vehicles have a low carbon footprint. No one talks about the carbon footprint of actually manufacturing a vehicle let alone the carbon footprint of producing battery packs, or the carbon footprint of recycling spent battery packs, or the fact that to produce electricity we still have to burn fossil fuels and then convert it into electricity which we cannot store. Low local emissions from electric vehicles, yes, but definitely not low carbon footprint. I love the idea of renewable electricity and it works well as a supplement, but when it's dark and windless we have little alternative but to use fuel fired power stations. To also believe that electric vehicles are efficient is another myth. Try burning a gallon of petrol in an electric generator then send the produced electrical power to a battery vehicle and see how far it runs. Then do the same test with an engine that runs directly on petrol and let's see which is the most efficient way of doing things.

The first generation Toyota Prius's are now worth less than £1k and are nearly all in desperate need of new battery packs which will cost the owner about £9k - call that progress and green, I think not.

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Previously Bob Matthews wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

new technoly is overunity electric motorcycles, yes motorcycles that can power them selfs as there runnig they regenarate their battery and capasitor power and with new high toque low wattage power induction motors built in side the wheel hub electric is highly efficant and has a very low carbon foot print so new electric motorcycles is the future weather you like them or not! yours anna j, Dixon

I have to disagree!

Electric vehicles cannot power themselves, yes they can use energy recovery instead of braking a la Formula 1 cars, but that only works if you don't ease off the throttle to slow down as most people do. If using an energy recovery system the power has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is the power that has been put in to create acceleration and speed.

Also a myth (I'm surprised at you Anna) is that electric vehicles have a low carbon footprint. No one talks about the carbon footprint of actually manufacturing a vehicle let alone the carbon footprint of producing battery packs, or the carbon footprint of recycling spent battery packs, or the fact that to produce electricity we still have to burn fossil fuels and then convert it into electricity which we cannot store. Low local emissions from electric vehicles, yes, but definitely not low carbon footprint. I love the idea of renewable electricity and it works well as a supplement, but when it's dark and windless we have little alternative but to use fuel fired power stations. To also believe that electric vehicles are efficient is another myth. Try burning a gallon of petrol in an electric generator then send the produced electrical power to a battery vehicle and see how far it runs. Then do the same test with an engine that runs directly on petrol and let's see which is the most efficient way of doing things.

The first generation Toyota Prius's are now worth less than £1k and are nearly all in desperate need of new battery packs which will cost the owner about £9k - call that progress and green, I think not.

I agree I have real misgiving about the whole concept as it stands, not just the manufacturing process and the machines operation, but the fact the struggling national grid may be called on to assist in the charging and in this alone combined with the volatility of Electricity prices it could be a very strenuous ownership experience,

I also feel again it is an example of manipulation and control in conjunction with a Political will to end Carbon fuel led vehicles is perhaps a little too hastily engineered in departure.

Clean and Green energy would be great if it only was, I think we are missing something, like a clever intermediary phase, abandoning something when the concept hasn't been refined and proven for cost and distance is a little rash.

The other thing that concerns me is something with a lack of noise used in general for Public transport, are they going to make people dress up in garb, coloured like Ice Lolly's with flashing warning lights on the said silent electric vehicles?

And then their is the expense of the whole thing!

Cheers

John H

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If the self-styled Greens had embraced nuclear power 40 years ago instead of going into a wild panic after a trivial local problem with an old fashioned plant at Three Mile Island, we would not have anything like the CO2 issues we have now. I blame them entirely for embracing what they call 'emotional intelligence' as a value basis for decision making.

Oddly I see one glimmer of hope with electric vehicles. Storage of power is a well known problem. But with lots of vehicles attached to the Grid, maybe some portion of their battery capacity might be available to be sent back to where it came from at peak periods.

But sorry Anna. The perpetual motion machine can never work outside the world of Harry Potter.

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Well then : Lots of food for thought here , methinks .

Last June when Stanley Woods won his tenth TT race I was overjoyed ........ oops ........... reality check . Things have moved on . Norton purists may do well to remember that Rem Fowlers TT winning bike was half Peugeot . The British industry went downhill because of failure to invest in updates combined with greedy shareholders . Many of us are also greedy . Another American import . Keeping things or conserving (a capital 'c' is shouting at me) is not necessarily a good thing if you keep the bad things and do not welcome innovation . (I think). We choose not to make stuff here because labour is too expensive and the end product would not sell . If the perpetrators of manufacture were less greedy it's possible that manufacture may return to our country . At present we choose to allow the exploitation of third world labour to feed the greed of shareholders . This is further exacerbated by our nativity in fawning to advertising and putting faith in people who tell us lies .

To the point . I think the new 650 is nice . Will it be affordable? Perhaps if Mr Garner cleans his monocle and looks around he may find a market.

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Not designed for people who like old Nortons, but then the bikes they are likely to buy are, for instance, let's see, oh yes, of course: old Nortons.

This new Norton is for people who are likely riding or considering a KTM, or anything with a Rotax engine. And why not build a bike for this constituency? They are plentiful and they spend money.

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Why would higher (initially), CO2 be such a problem in that surely it would be readily absorbed by Plants and phytoplankton in the sea? Photosynthetic organisms breathe in CO2 it is their Lifeblood.

They go on about CO2 and yet tons of poisons are being poured on to the land legally and then we eat the produce! And meanwhile destroy the Earth's forests and poison the seas, if the Phytoplankton die we are stuffed good and proper.

Our bodies are built from the fabric of the Earth and they wonder why cancer is rife!

Life on Earth is Carbon based for FS and so is a lot of Lubrication! What has gone on in the last 25 years is complete and utter insanity and now they are going to introduce in the upper air-streams metal particulates in aerosol form in combination which is going to block out the SUN, our main source of Natural energy and poison us and our foodstuffs in the bargain!

David Bellamy has been ostracised and ridiculed for a similar view and he is a Professor of Botany, but others with much less insight and knowledge know better.

Look around at peoples bodies they are being by stealth systematically poisoned.

Perhaps powering the new machines of the future using modified photosynthetic cells may be a better and more sensible project , oh! no i forgot it is going to produce CO2 a natural gas necessary for life on this planet!

Please God, send me to another Universe, occupied with intelligent life forms!

Cheers

John H

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Isn't a big part of the drive in interest and purchasing old motorcycles "greed for gold", you see all the adverts with the attached phrase "Investment potential, ramped up by the Auction Houses" .

I can understand values being high if a machine has been a Race machine or has unusual features, like a specialised development model, or there wasn't many made, but the "spam and Chips" models are now touted as high value investments and rare, ...it could be your last chance....!

Quite a lot of people are making "shed loads of money" out there on the back of firstly, many enthusiasts who have the machines for other values than monetary gain and the "great unwashed general public", who are gullible!

For me I genuinely do not like the styling of the modern motorcycles, plus they all are starting in the main categories to look the same

But the fact that they have been "politically interfered with" and compliant with Euro whatever, ABS and have needless technology inserted into, puts me right off. This in effect raises prices and on the whole is not necessary with more to go wrong and more expensive to repair, that is if you can get the part from the Far East in the first place!

Anna doesn't mean to be personal I am sure, just doesn't use the "Third person" in replying!

As for Tesla maybe there is more to Energy dilemma than what we are told, but moneyed interests always seem to prevail.

When I was a kid the comics said we would by now have our own personal flying machines, little efficient bubble capsuled machines whizzing about and I believed it would be so!

Cheers

John H

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Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

I am behind you Dave. Stuart Garner has now been going about as long as Rotary Norton's were produced (great bikes to). However he is now marching on a pace. Yes, we all know he he had some problems for a few years but the 961 is a super bike and now the mark 2 is much improved and updated version. The Domieracer and the Dominator have been eye candy and everywhere my son and myself take ours it really draws the crowds.

The New V4 is now at a different level again and from it Stuart has started to created a 650cc bike which is an affordable bike.

The other month the Devon Branch did a ride out to a bike night held at a Triumph Dealer to display our beloved Norton's. several of us had a look at the Triumph's take off of the 961. We were shocked as the quality did not compare in our minds.

So on the whole Stuart is really getting his act together and we should be a bit more behind him that the comments coming out. So if you have not got something constructive to say, please think twice before posting negative thoughts on the Forum.

Stuart does take notice of what is being said and it is such ashamed that members of the Norton Owners Club can't be a bit more supportive. Yes, if you have a 961 and have had problems well you are entitled to tell others as you actually have one of his creations.

I have enjoyed the Branch visits to the factory and the A.G.M's we have had when we have been around the factory and year on year have seen it evolving. Sadly this was denied us this year however hopefully the E.C. can arrange a factory tour for us next year and I am sure the doubters amounts us will be pleasantly surprised.

Ian Loram (a proud Norton owner)

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Previously ian_loram wrote:

Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

I am behind you Dave. Stuart Garner has now been going about as long as Rotary Norton's were produced (great bikes to). However he is now marching on a pace. Yes, we all know he he had some problems for a few years but the 961 is a super bike and now the mark 2 is much improved and updated version. The Domieracer and the Dominator have been eye candy and everywhere my son and myself take ours it really draws the crowds.

The New V4 is now at a different level again and from it Stuart has started to created a 650cc bike which is an affordable bike.

The other month the Devon Branch did a ride out to a bike night held at a Triumph Dealer to display our beloved Norton's. several of us had a look at the Triumph's take off of the 961. We were shocked as the quality did not compare in our minds.

So on the whole Stuart is really getting his act together and we should be a bit more behind him that the comments coming out. So if you have not got something constructive to say, please think twice before posting negative thoughts on the Forum.

Stuart does take notice of what is being said and it is such ashamed that members of the Norton Owners Club can't be a bit more supportive. Yes, if you have a 961 and have had problems well you are entitled to tell others as you actually have one of his creations.

I have enjoyed the Branch visits to the factory and the A.G.M's we have had when we have been around the factory and year on year have seen it evolving. Sadly this was denied us this year however hopefully the E.C. can arrange a factory tour for us next year and I am sure the doubters amounts us will be pleasantly surprised.

Ian Loram (a proud Norton owner)

Hellowell I heard a differentstory on the 961 I know there trying there hardest to have a good product but Dealers like Crazy Horse and other dealers does not want to know the 961 and sadly prices are dropping there too many on eBay the mk2 is not much differentthe firstone and having difficuty meeting euro type4 has the V4 is well but the truth of all this is swept under the carpet, so now you got somethingto be upset about, I do have inside information from owners and dealers and I do have the engineering blueprint of these engines, and others too, the only real modern Norton is the Rotary 588 developed by Brain Critchton a very good engineer one of britian best, But this engine as not had the time and investment and development put into it has the modern four stroke engine has, but still out performs them all, this rotary engine needs redevelopment in a new oiling system and a diffrent type of side sealing on the rotor, to make the engine run cleaner, I do belive the rotary engines as lot of milage in them yet, but I will not knock the Norton Name is just in the wrong hands and only time will tell all But the 650 in a diffrent concept may do well in a diffrent frame design, like my new spine frame development, yours anna j

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Previously ian_loram wrote:

Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

I am behind you Dave. Stuart Garner has now been going about as long as Rotary Norton's were produced (great bikes to). However he is now marching on a pace. Yes, we all know he he had some problems for a few years but the 961 is a super bike and now the mark 2 is much improved and updated version. The Domieracer and the Dominator have been eye candy and everywhere my son and myself take ours it really draws the crowds.

The New V4 is now at a different level again and from it Stuart has started to created a 650cc bike which is an affordable bike.

The other month the Devon Branch did a ride out to a bike night held at a Triumph Dealer to display our beloved Norton's. several of us had a look at the Triumph's take off of the 961. We were shocked as the quality did not compare in our minds.

So on the whole Stuart is really getting his act together and we should be a bit more behind him that the comments coming out. So if you have not got something constructive to say, please think twice before posting negative thoughts on the Forum.

Stuart does take notice of what is being said and it is such ashamed that members of the Norton Owners Club can't be a bit more supportive. Yes, if you have a 961 and have had problems well you are entitled to tell others as you actually have one of his creations.

I have enjoyed the Branch visits to the factory and the A.G.M's we have had when we have been around the factory and year on year have seen it evolving. Sadly this was denied us this year however hopefully the E.C. can arrange a factory tour for us next year and I am sure the doubters amounts us will be pleasantly surprised.

Ian Loram (a proud Norton owner)

Nothing therefore appears to have changed then with the Triumph/Norton production situation since the 1930s!

Though the evidence points to Triumph BSA's having better brakes from 1968 to the demise of their drum brakes in 1972/73! Triple engines made better racers, too I presume!

No on can deny the 961 and derivates aren't beautiful machines, perhaps not styled to everyone's liking, but I subscribed to a keep it simple theory and never have I seen so many broken down motorcycles as I have in the last 10 years, being trailered home.

Also I prefer Right-foot gear change, so what choice do I have on newly produced machines?

Can Stuart Garner, make a good 250cc or 400cc road machine, so that people do not have to have a second-mortgage to own one?

Ultimately having the Norton name resurrected and a modern company aiming to bring products and pride back into the UK is good for all of us. And it certainly brightens up visits to the TT and IOM generally!

Cheers

John H

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Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously howard_thompson wrote:

'Hello To all Norton owners The 961 Commando is The Best Built Machine under the name of Norton , and the Engineering is superb And well Engineered motorcyle , And worth every penny that you pay for one . Its like buying a Manx Norton and just as special and it will retain its value for a very long time and the value of these machine may even go up is price , the Owners that have got there New 961 Commados Will be very proud in owning one , And If you Have Not thought of buying one yet , then go and Have a Visit to The Norton Factory first and see for your self at first hand , And I know that you will what to own one. There A worth wile investment , The Future Can only get brighter For Norton Motorcycles. There Built with the light of experience .Your Anna J Dixon'

yes right in your dreams the finest real Norton Motorcycle was the Norton Manx, and the Export Norton Manxman 650, if only you could get the right parts for them now but nobody makes things anymore like we use to, as for today'slight of experience the candle went out years ago, the writing was on the wall back in late 1959 its time to stop trying to pump blood into a long-dead corpse and let this name to rest along with the man who created it, and all go by a Honda ten times a better bike and save the planet from oil leakers!! yours anna j

No, not in my dreams, in yours - your post in 'The 961 Commando' section to be precise, on October 15 2011.

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Previously David Cooper wrote:

If the self-styled Greens had embraced nuclear power 40 years ago instead of going into a wild panic after a trivial local problem with an old fashioned plant at Three Mile Island, we would not have anything like the CO2 issues we have now. I blame them entirely for embracing what they call 'emotional intelligence' as a value basis for decision making.

Oddly I see one glimmer of hope with electric vehicles. Storage of power is a well known problem. But with lots of vehicles attached to the Grid, maybe some portion of their battery capacity might be available to be sent back to where it came from at peak periods.

But sorry Anna. The perpetual motion machine can never work outside the world of Harry Potter.

Hmmmm .... Thereâs trivial matter of storing the waste, not forgetting the radiation leaks at selafield and the little incident of Chernobyl and Fukushima of course! Plus the fact that it is ridiculously expensive. That aside you are of course right, electric cars do not have a green footprint and thereâs no such thing as perpetual motion at the moment. Iâm also not sure of the efficiency of inductive charging but itâs an interesting development.

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Previously Barry Carson wrote:

thinking of perpetual motion .has the world stopped spinning yet smiley

And the sun is, in Perpetualmotion which is now 5 billion years old and the Japanese

do not like the word impossible 50 years ago you do not think it possible to have a cell phone ever mind an Iphone which we have now, I can tell you engineers are working on the possibility of having a regenerating electric cars, yes cars that will charge them self as there running so why not electric bikes too , the EDM Sd 70 diesellocomotive in the USA have dynamic braking this is the electric power motor being witch too an Altenaterand recharges the battery bank back up this technologybeen around since the 1950s so you see where alraedy half way there, so don,t knock the future before it arrves before long we have electirc bike that will do all your road thinking for you and all you do is which the nice senary

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Previously howard_thompson wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously howard_thompson wrote:

'Hello To all Norton owners The 961 Commando is The Best Built Machine under the name of Norton , and the Engineering is superb And well Engineered motorcyle , And worth every penny that you pay for one . Its like buying a Manx Norton and just as special and it will retain its value for a very long time and the value of these machine may even go up is price , the Owners that have got there New 961 Commados Will be very proud in owning one , And If you Have Not thought of buying one yet , then go and Have a Visit to The Norton Factory first and see for your self at first hand , And I know that you will what to own one. There A worth wile investment , The Future Can only get brighter For Norton Motorcycles. There Built with the light of experience .Your Anna J Dixon'

yes right in your dreams the finest real Norton Motorcycle was the Norton Manx, and the Export Norton Manxman 650, if only you could get the right parts for them now but nobody makes things anymore like we use to, as for today'slight of experience the candle went out years ago, the writing was on the wall back in late 1959 its time to stop trying to pump blood into a long-dead corpse and let this name to rest along with the man who created it, and all go by a Honda ten times a better bike and save the planet from oil leakers!! yours anna j

No, not in my dreams, in yours - your post in 'The 961 Commando' section to be precise, on October 15 2011.

Hello yes, I put my hands up on this one !! and its one motorcycle I would never wast my money on, sad to say but ever one as there opinion. and this new 650 scramblerup there alongside its stablemate, but the new Royal Enfield 650 is more appealing and has more style to it, were some motorcycles styling look like they been thrown off a 50 story building but if you like your bike toolook like it came from scrap heap challenge then that OK your riding it,

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Anna,

Re-urgent phone call Friday & Monday! I hope all this pontificating has not led to you forgetting to post my Dominator Engine gearbox plates back to me, my friend, as I am urgently waiting for them!

Also stuck in, waiting for Parcel Force to deliver, (once I paid the Customs tax, which I duly have), my Norton parts from USA!

Walking into a shop or dealers to buy bits was so much easier, if they had the part in like the Old fashioned real dealers of British bits!

Cheers

John H

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Anna

As you say we donât know what is around the corner, but the sun is not in perpetual motion if you hang around long enough youâll find out!! And although fusion may be possible to control, I doubt weâll see it! (Certainly not in a car) The self charging cars will use induction, which requires energy input. So not perpetual, you can regain energy from braking to counteract the energy used in acceleration, but not in maintaining a constant speed against wind resistance. The Basic laws of physics that have yet to be broken still apply.

Andy

No need to shout! .... The HP2 produces about 310 hp as I recall! :o

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Lightweight 650 Norton twin, engine designed by Ricardo, blend of modern and retro styling and built in the UK. I want one!

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Kawasaki HP2 in road going trim produces a claimed 200 BHP - per Kawasaki blurb. The race version claims 310 but that is probably only available for very short bursts using over-boost. But I doubt if any of these figures have been tested on a calibrated dyno so probably a far bit of exaggeration.

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Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously ian_loram wrote:

Previously dave_sheppard wrote:

Great that the Norton motorcycle is being built again in the UK and a tremendous job that Stuart Garner is doing building a motorcycle business. Its about time someone updated the Norton story because despite all the doubters he is proving them all wrong big time. Its a great story and its still unfolding. Has he been given life mebmbership of this club yet?

I am behind you Dave. Stuart Garner has now been going about as long as Rotary Norton's were produced (great bikes to). However he is now marching on a pace. Yes, we all know he he had some problems for a few years but the 961 is a super bike and now the mark 2 is much improved and updated version. The Domieracer and the Dominator have been eye candy and everywhere my son and myself take ours it really draws the crowds.

The New V4 is now at a different level again and from it Stuart has started to created a 650cc bike which is an affordable bike.

The other month the Devon Branch did a ride out to a bike night held at a Triumph Dealer to display our beloved Norton's. several of us had a look at the Triumph's take off of the 961. We were shocked as the quality did not compare in our minds.

So on the whole Stuart is really getting his act together and we should be a bit more behind him that the comments coming out. So if you have not got something constructive to say, please think twice before posting negative thoughts on the Forum.

Stuart does take notice of what is being said and it is such ashamed that members of the Norton Owners Club can't be a bit more supportive. Yes, if you have a 961 and have had problems well you are entitled to tell others as you actually have one of his creations.

I have enjoyed the Branch visits to the factory and the A.G.M's we have had when we have been around the factory and year on year have seen it evolving. Sadly this was denied us this year however hopefully the E.C. can arrange a factory tour for us next year and I am sure the doubters amounts us will be pleasantly surprised.

Ian Loram (a proud Norton owner)

Hellowell I heard a differentstory on the 961 I know there trying there hardest to have a good product but Dealers like Crazy Horse and other dealers does not want to know the 961 and sadly prices are dropping there too many on eBay the mk2 is not much differentthe firstone and having difficuty meeting euro type4 has the V4 is well but the truth of all this is swept under the carpet, so now you got somethingto be upset about, I do have inside information from owners and dealers and I do have the engineering blueprint of these engines, and others too, the only real modern Norton is the Rotary 588 developed by Brain Critchton a very good engineer one of britian best, But this engine as not had the time and investment and development put into it has the modern four stroke engine has, but still out performs them all, this rotary engine needs redevelopment in a new oiling system and a diffrent type of side sealing on the rotor, to make the engine run cleaner, I do belive the rotary engines as lot of milage in them yet, but I will not knock the Norton Name is just in the wrong hands and only time will tell all But the 650 in a diffrent concept may do well in a diffrent frame design, like my new spine frame development, yours anna j

I think these post's we have all heard before it's all me me me I I I getting tired of them now Anna. please move on.

The new scrambler look good but at the show it was only a concept drawing bring it on Norton

Den Bourne

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Power in itself is a pretty meaningless figure and only useful in relative comparison of like vehicles.

What is more important is where that power is produced, in the RPM range, this is especially true of road going machines,

It is harder to design and execute a good flexible road going engine, than a "Balls-out" racing machine!

Of course, there has been big leaps in technical developments. Variable inlet tracks, patent 1958 Daimler Benz!

Ist Electronic fuel injection system in a car at least tested, plus VVT, TwinSpark, all Alfa Romeo developments on road going cars; Plus Honda as a Johnny come lately with VTec

Forced induction; early 20th century, I know Mercedes and Auto-union used supercharging in the 1930s, maybe even earlier?

Linked Air flow meters Bosch, Fuel injection motorcycles I think BMW L-Jetronic, K-series; K100, the first standard production motorcycle 1983!

First standard production car with electronic ignition Fiat Dino 1968!

All this has produced more power,but it is funny that sometimes these unbelievable figures, do not translate that well on the open road!

Figures like 1 to 1 1/4 bhp per cubic inch, (16.39cc), was once seen as a good power output for a good all round flexible engine.

Phil Irving stated something like 55bhp for a "V" twin Continent crosser cruising all day at 80mph, for A & B roads 40bhp + 650 twin and MIke Hailwood stated 70bhp at the rear wheel was perfect for the IOM TT.

So what's changed? Z900 80bhp, Rocket Three 60bhp, mid-60s Electro-glide 66bhp, Honda CB 750 67bhp, Gold star, Venom,Triumph Bonneville, Dominator all between 40-50 bhp!

Where does all this extra-power in modern motorcycles, disappear too?

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Into blistering acceleration -- it's amazing how quickly the V*lv*s recede when one has 100+ bhp, courtesy of my friend's Ducati Multistrada (which in many ways is a fantastic bike, but just too tall/heavy for my taste, and I'm 6' 0").

But I agree that apart from manic overtaking there seems little real-world point to 100+ bhp. My Ducati ST2 is by modern standards rather weedy (80 bhp) but is entirely relaxed cruising at 100 mph.

Previously john_hall1 wrote:

Where does all this extra-power in modern motorcycles, disappear too?

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Previously Julian Wells wrote:

Into blistering acceleration -- it's amazing how quickly the V*lv*s recede when one has 100+ bhp,

Many years ago in England - probably 15/20 years ago- you needed to be very cautious of white Volvo estate cars. They could be police Volvo T5's. His 240 odd bhp from that turbocharged 5 cylinder will very quickly overtake you again especially if he puts on the blue lights and siren. I can vouch for that even though I had 345bhp.

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AH Ha!, but you can't get faster than 9 second quarter miles propelled by a standard production motorcycle and 0-60 mph in 2.3 seconds!

1/4 of a mile 440 yards = 1320 feet, for ease of a calculation a 10 second quarter of a mile = 132 feet a second!

Say a motorcycle is 8 feet long, that is 16.5 bike lengths a second!

With my new build, I would be happy with a 13 second 1/4 mile, I suppose! 0.7 seconds faster than a BSA/ Triumph triple.

 

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