Workshop manual

I was there on Monday the 12th with my Sport getting it's 1st year service. Ewar (sp?) from Finland was there on his 961 as well, spent a little while listening to tales of his journey! Mine was all sorted on the Monday, he was hoping his would be as well but I think he may have had one or two issues to sort and was still there when I left. Nice guy for sure

With regard to basic servicing Norton Canada are producing a series of short videos showing minor servicing (oil changes etc). Owners may find these of interest. Sorry not to give the link but go to YouTube and type in '.Norton 961 oil change.'

Steve

Thanks Steve

I've just watched the oil change one and it's most useful.

Previously david_clarke1 wrote:

Having picked up my SE (in Black) yesterday from the factory I took the oportunity of buying the "proper" workshop manual and can reccomend any 961 Owners to do likewise.

The service at the factory was excellent and the ride home something to remember.

In my view Norton are working very hard to get rid of some negative views of the company and yesterday the factory was a hive of activity with finished bikes being crated up for delivery.

The star owner award must go to the guy from Finland who rode his bike through Poland and Germany to get the bike services at the factory (it was being given a 6000 service when I was there) , so the bike was not being treated as a toy not to get wet but as a proper working motorcycle.The bike was covered in dirt having encountered rain riding accross Germay. Respect!

David

Hi David

Hope you don't mind me asking, how much was the Workshop Manual, can't see it on the website

Regards

Colin

Workshop manual was £90 but I noticed they had applied VAT, which is not the case generally for printed material - pointed this out to Sean & he sent a cheque back for the VAT element - Alan

Workshop manual? For goodness sake, these are new machines. No major overhaul should be required, apart from oil, filter, nd plug changes, for at least 50,000 miles. How many owners will keep their bikes this long? Ask the same question in 10 years time, and, it may be relevant. £90 for a manual, who is extracting the urine?

John - The manual contains exploded diagrams with every part identified so serves more than one function. As technical info on the 961 is in short supply, this is the best reference for getting an insight into the construction and use of the bike. Remember that this is a hand built motorcycle and prices cannot be compared to mass produced items - you would wince at Ferrari prices - you pays your money... Alan

No, I would not dream of paying the money! Motorcycles have advanced a bit, from the 50's (when I started riding). To produce a push-rod operated, vertical twin, with only 2 valves per cylinder, is not advancement, it's regression!

Previously alan_sessions wrote:

..this is the best reference for getting an insight into the construction and use of the bike. Remember that this is a hand built motorcycle and prices cannot be compared to mass produced items

I would have thought all motorbikes are handbuilt, can't imagine a robot inserting piston circlips, valve collets, fitting headlamps, shock absorbers, final drive trains, petrol tanks etc etc. CNC machining is now a normal production method, but this has nothing to do with the cost of a manual. Why do you need a manual to tell you how to use the bike anyway? Content of messages from 961 owners already indicates the novelty has worn off. One or two for sale with only a few hundred miles on the clock. Has the hype not lived up to the reality?

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Previously alan_sessions wrote:

..this is the best reference for getting an insight into the construction and use of the bike. Remember that this is a hand built motorcycle and prices cannot be compared to mass produced items

I would have thought all motorbikes are handbuilt, can't imagine a robot inserting piston circlips, valve collets, fitting headlamps, shock absorbers, final drive trains, petrol tanks etc etc. CNC machining is now a normal production method, but this has nothing to do with the cost of a manual. Why do you need a manual to tell you how to use the bike anyway? Content of messages from 961 owners already indicates the novelty has worn off. One or two for sale with only a few hundred miles on the clock. Has the hype not lived up to the reality?

Previously John Shorter wrote:

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Previously alan_sessions wrote:

..this is the best reference for getting an insight into the construction and use of the bike. Remember that this is a hand built motorcycle and prices cannot be compared to mass produced items

I would have thought all motorbikes are handbuilt, can't imagine a robot inserting piston circlips, valve collets, fitting headlamps, shock absorbers, final drive trains, petrol tanks etc etc. CNC machining is now a normal production method, but this has nothing to do with the cost of a manual. Why do you need a manual to tell you how to use the bike anyway? Content of messages from 961 owners already indicates the novelty has worn off. One or two for sale with only a few hundred miles on the clock. Has the hype not lived up to the reality?

Well Simon, it seems we don't disagree on everything after all! John.

I'll almost certainly be obtaining a workshop manual for mine when I get it if ony because it'll satisfy my desire to know what goes where and how it does it. Having seen a number of car/bike plants in the past Nortons are very much hand-built compared to them. Triumph, much as I love mine, are mass produced machines.

The fact that Nortons aren't is a large part of the appeal to me. If you don't like the idea of the 961 then don't bother reading and commenting on the messages. Simples!

I don't object to the (idea of the?) 961, or most motorcycles, it's the bullshit that owners/salesmen come out with to justify buying/selling an expensive product, where in reality the 961 is expensive due to scale of economies and also because S.Garner has realised there are people willing to pay over the odds for a pushrod twin with a Norton sticker on the tank. Not a million miles away (and of similar performance) from Harley Davidson's ethos of selling motorcycles, "..living the dream...", "... if I have to explain you wouldn't understand.." etc etc and other drivel the advertising dept. come up with.

Your Triumph is cheaper because of mass production but dosen't mean it is of poor quality. The fact that owners have already reported problems with 961's, e.g high oil consumption and oil leaks, from a "hand built", low volume product equates to a high percentage of bikes sold so far having faults - so where has/is the customers money going. It would appear not to be in R&D or quality control going by problems so far, no matter how quickly the problems have been fixed or "enthusiastic" the staff are.

Where's the justification of comparing the 961 to a Ferrari? One's a pedigree sports machine with decades of continuous history and developement, the other is a brand resurrected by an entrepreneur whose immediate previous ventures were selling fireworks and prams. Where's the connection? Hope this explains my previous comments,

Simon.

You pays your money...

And long may that remain the case.

What was it Lord Melchett, said, "If nothing else works, a total pigheaded unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through".(Black Adder Goes Forth).

Simon

I'm finding your comments offensive and, to be frank, rather immature. Enough.

Back to the topic - Is it a case of contacting Norton directly if one wants to get hold of the manual? If so who's the best point of contact?

Lee, don't post messages if you are not prepared to receive critical comments. I (or the webmaster) will decide when enough is enough. Where's your sense of humour, you'll need one if your going to ride a 961,

ps I think you get them from the factory, contact Sean.

Grown up debate appears to be impossible to achieve in this case. If you don't like the bikes or the chap behind them then that's your choice.

Don't spoil it for those of us who have exercised our choice.

How am I spoiling it? - Norton quality control is doing that at the moment.

I haven't mentioned in the above a dislike for the bikes or Stuart Garner, I was countering claims made by Alan Sessions by pointing out problems with 961's due to poor quality control as reported on this forum by 961 owners, and that the bikes are expensive. This is all fact. It's not my problem the truth is spoiling it, as you claim, for people like yourself. It's amazing some people still have a head in the sand attitude when it comes to British manufacturing. I believe every 961 comes with a free pair of rose tinted specs. Sure your not related to Lord Melchett?.

I have been reading this thread with great interest!

I walked around the NEC bike show last year looking carefully at every model on every stand and the only bike that affected my heart rate was the 961! I placed the order and paid mydeposit there and then. Recently I've rejoined the NOC after 20 years of being Nortonless. The 961 might not be total perfection on two wheels, which bike is? But what the 961 does have are top quality cycle parts, yokes machined from solid billet all put together by hand in a British factory by loyal workers who know full well that what they are doing is a massive challenge in a highly competitive industry. I own an engineering company, I know how hard it can be and I also know that the 961 is cheap, in fact it is a bargain. Take the Sport for instance, at £14000, 20% of that goes straight to HMRC in VAT. that is £2800 paid to the Government on every model; add up the expensive componentry, and the attention to detail on the beautiful pushrod engine, it all adds up.

So we should be appluding and be proud that Nortons are in production and being admired all over the world.

Oh yes, I also have to say that I can't wait to pick mine up this week!!

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

I don't object to the (idea of the?) 961, or most motorcycles, it's the bullshit that owners/salesmen come out with to justify buying/selling an expensive product, where in reality the 961 is expensive due to scale of economies and also because S.Garner has realised there are people willing to pay over the odds for a pushrod twin with a Norton sticker on the tank. Not a million miles away (and of similar performance) from Harley Davidson's ethos of selling motorcycles, "..living the dream...", "... if I have to explain you wouldn't understand.." etc etc and other drivel the advertising dept. come up with.

Your Triumph is cheaper because of mass production but dosen't mean it is of poor quality. The fact that owners have already reported problems with 961's, e.g high oil consumption and oil leaks, from a "hand built", low volume product equates to a high percentage of bikes sold so far having faults - so where has/is the customers money going. It would appear not to be in R&D or quality control going by problems so far, no matter how quickly the problems have been fixed or "enthusiastic" the staff are.

Where's the justification of comparing the 961 to a Ferrari? One's a pedigree sports machine with decades of continuous history and developement, the other is a brand resurrected by an entrepreneur whose immediate previous ventures were selling fireworks and prams. Where's the connection? Hope this explains my previous comments,

Simon.

Once again, people are attempting to read between the lines of what I have written, ignoring what I have written, and then coming up with what ever conclusion they like.

The price of the so called Norvil product is irrelevant. They are not a motorcycle manufacturer, they are a spares shop assembling bikes from parts - personally I wouldn't buy a washer from the company. As I said before, the high price of the 961 is due to the economies of scale and obviously does not reflect a high quality product, otherwise there would not be so many customers having problems - a fact, read the postings in the 961 forum.

I hope the company, for the sake of the employees and suppliers, who would lose a lot of money if the company collapsed, is successful. Whatever happens, I imagine Mr Garner would come out of it financially alright. I couldn't give a monkey's who joins the club. Chances of meeting approx. 95% of the members are very small, as they appear to rarely use their bikes, if at all. All the best,

Simon.

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Once again, people are attempting to read between the lines of what I have written, ignoring what I have written, and then coming up with what ever conclusion they like.

The price of the so called Norvil product is irrelevant. They are not a motorcycle manufacturer, they are a spares shop assembling bikes from parts - personally I wouldn't buy a washer from the company. As I said before, the high price of the 961 is due to the economies of scale and obviously does not reflect a high quality product, otherwise there would not be so many customers having problems - a fact, read the postings in the 961 forum.

I hope the company, for the sake of the employees and suppliers, who would lose a lot of money if the company collapsed, is successful. Whatever happens, I imagine Mr Garner would come out of it financially alright. I couldn't give a monkey's who joins the club. Chances of meeting approx. 95% of the members are very small, as they appear to rarely use their bikes, if at all. All the best,

Hello Simon The Norton 961 is not expensive at all. For those like me,who have more than enough money andwho choose to back Britishmanufacturing. It's more than a motorcycle it's activelybacking something that you believe in and want to encourage. This bike and company is being built from the ground up and to be honest I do not expect perfection. However my 961 Norton Commando Sport is one of the worlds most gorgeous looking motorcycles and is top fun to ride.

Redressing the balance a tad from certain posts here and from somebody who actually has one, my 961 Sport after ten monthshas been excellent - great performance , good handling,superb brakes, comfortable and reliable. Only technical glitch has been a looseearth wire under the seat causing indicator faultat 500 miles whichNorton quickly identified and fixed during first service.

Personally,have always received good service from Norton once bike was finally delivered. Read news sectionon their website andit's clear the company ison the up -even allowing fora certain amount ofobligatory PR hype. Wishing Stuart Garnerall the best for the future of Norton.

Some comments I noticed on the Excess Norton website you may be interested in.

"What tremendous value the 961 is. I wish all the critics would stop whining about it."

also,

"£15,000 for a 961, it's a disgrace! - it's far too low. The excellent service Norton provides, it should be at least £30,000".

and,

"The workshop manual is quite magnificent. It justifies the cost of the 961 on it's own. Personally I think the price is too low. I would willingley sell my house and all it's contents to help Norton. Well done Stuart Garner !".

I have been advised by the factorythat a revised workshop manual is dueabout the end of October, it went for the final proof reading and test print on Tuesday.

Dave

I assume that each 961 is supplied with an 'Owners Handbook' (I have not seen a copy). If the handbook follows most manufacturers handbooks it should detail basic maintenance procedures e.g. oil changes etc.

Previously mark_woodward wrote:

I assume that each 961 is supplied with an 'Owners Handbook' (I have not seen a copy). If the handbook follows most manufacturers handbooks it should detail basic maintenance procedures e.g. oil changes etc.

You get a handbook with the bike - well written covering all the usual maintenance , etc - and in modern tradition is 50% obligatory EUwarnings about everything under the sun.