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Absolute nightmare with a 2010 model

Hello all,

I find it important to share with you my very unpleasant experience with a 2010 Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer.

As you may know, these models are protoypes that should not have been sold to customers.

Since I have bought my second hand bike in September 2012, I face endless problems that have involved from my side an important waste of time and money.

I and Egli Racing in Switzerland have probably done our best to make the bike work but my opinion has definitively changed this week-end with a new major breakdown that makes me say this bike is a real nightmare.

I have made 4 trips to Egli Racing 350kms far from my place in France to solve oil leaks, injection programming issues, starter and ECU issues, and then injection programming again.

During my last stay at Egli's 2 weeks ago, Egli has also fixed a major default of the 2010 series involving hydraulic press opening the valves (translation probably is approximate).

And what happened two days ago ? One of this 2 hydraulic press broke down, which could have involved a serious engine damage... and left me stuck in the rain

250kms far from home.

After 9 monthes of intense struggle to make the bike work, I should say I have no other solution to ask Norton to refund me or to change it.

It is deeply unacceptable to have a 20000 euros bike which is not able to ride 200kms in a row.

It is very unpleasant to be sold a 20000 euros a prototype bike.

Another guy in my regions has bought a 2012 model, he also faces endless problems and gets very disapointed and angry (he waited 1 1/2 year to get his bike).

I can tell you that Norton's image is very bad over here...

Permalink

Previously pierre-olivier_michel wrote:

Hello all,

I find it important to share with you my very unpleasant experience with a 2010 Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer.

As you may know, these models are protoypes that should not have been sold to customers.

Since I have bought my second hand bike in September 2012, I face endless problems that have involved from my side an important waste of time and money.

I and Egli Racing in Switzerland have probably done our best to make the bike work but my opinion has definitively changed this week-end with a new major breakdown that makes me say this bike is a real nightmare.

I have made 4 trips to Egli Racing 350kms far from my place in France to solve oil leaks, injection programming issues, starter and ECU issues, and then injection programming again.

During my last stay at Egli's 2 weeks ago, Egli has also fixed a major default of the 2010 series involving hydraulic press opening the valves (translation probably is approximate).

And what happened two days ago ? One of this 2 hydraulic press broke down, which could have involved a serious engine damage... and left me stuck in the rain

250kms far from home.

After 9 monthes of intense struggle to make the bike work, I should say I have no other solution to ask Norton to refund me or to change it.

It is deeply unacceptable to have a 20000 euros bike which is not able to ride 200kms in a row.

It is very unpleasant to be sold a 20000 euros a prototype bike.

Another guy in my regions has bought a 2012 model, he also faces endless problems and gets very disapointed and angry (he waited 1 1/2 year to get his bike).

I can tell you that Norton's image is very bad over here...

Hello Pierre

Have you and your friend contacted Norton Motorcycles as it appears that there is no reference to doing so in your email.I would rather speak to those who manufacture the bike than to an agent, no disrespect at all meant to the agent but any issues I have had Norton have beenmost helpful.Contact them and enquire it can only help.

Paul.

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Hello Paul,

Thanks for your suggestion.

I think it was the normal way to first work with Norton's dealer to fix the problem.

Egli Racing probably has more skills with Norton bikes than any other dealer as they have sold around 80 bikes. They hardly struggled to make my bike work (as I do) but they finally were not able to sort these problems out.

I have contacted the Norton International Sales manager to get further instructions about the bike's repair, now it's all up to him to lead the operations.

I consider I have provided enough efforts, spent enough time and money to have a working bike...

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Previously pierre-olivier_michel wrote:

Hello all,

I find it important to share with you my very unpleasant experience with a 2010 Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer.

As you may know, these models are protoypes that should not have been sold to customers.

Since I have bought my second hand bike in September 2012, I face endless problems that have involved from my side an important waste of time and money.

I and Egli Racing in Switzerland have probably done our best to make the bike work but my opinion has definitively changed this week-end with a new major breakdown that makes me say this bike is a real nightmare.

I have made 4 trips to Egli Racing 350kms far from my place in France to solve oil leaks, injection programming issues, starter and ECU issues, and then injection programming again.

During my last stay at Egli's 2 weeks ago, Egli has also fixed a major default of the 2010 series involving hydraulic press opening the valves (translation probably is approximate).

And what happened two days ago ? One of this 2 hydraulic press broke down, which could have involved a serious engine damage... and left me stuck in the rain

250kms far from home.

After 9 monthes of intense struggle to make the bike work, I should say I have no other solution to ask Norton to refund me or to change it.

It is deeply unacceptable to have a 20000 euros bike which is not able to ride 200kms in a row.

It is very unpleasant to be sold a 20000 euros a prototype bike.

Another guy in my regions has bought a 2012 model, he also faces endless problems and gets very disapointed and angry (he waited 1 1/2 year to get his bike).

I can tell you that Norton's image is very bad over here...

NORTON MOTORCYCLES UK LTD.Following the posting by Pierre-Oliver Michel,regarding his 2011 Norton Commando we decided to step in and resolve the current issues Mr Michel has. We collected the bike from Mr Michel in France and returned direct to the factory. It was immediately clear the bike had had much non standard work carried out to it and was obviously in a poor state. We have replaced all parts back to original and given the bike a thorough inspection so it is back to itâs original factory specification. We are now in the process of returning the bike back to Mr Michel in France. All of this has been done by the factory free of charge as we felt Mr Michel had been poorly treated by the work done to his bike from the non French dealer. We will be taking this up with the dealer in question and have apologised for the poor service Mr Michel received from the dealer in question.You can be assured the Norton Factory will NEVER abandon itâs valued riders.
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Previously sean_kynnersley wrote:

Previously pierre-olivier_michel wrote:

Hello all,

I find it important to share with you my very unpleasant experience with a 2010 Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer.

As you may know, these models are protoypes that should not have been sold to customers.

Since I have bought my second hand bike in September 2012, I face endless problems that have involved from my side an important waste of time and money.

I and Egli Racing in Switzerland have probably done our best to make the bike work but my opinion has definitively changed this week-end with a new major breakdown that makes me say this bike is a real nightmare.

I have made 4 trips to Egli Racing 350kms far from my place in France to solve oil leaks, injection programming issues, starter and ECU issues, and then injection programming again.

During my last stay at Egli's 2 weeks ago, Egli has also fixed a major default of the 2010 series involving hydraulic press opening the valves (translation probably is approximate).

And what happened two days ago ? One of this 2 hydraulic press broke down, which could have involved a serious engine damage... and left me stuck in the rain

250kms far from home.

After 9 monthes of intense struggle to make the bike work, I should say I have no other solution to ask Norton to refund me or to change it.

It is deeply unacceptable to have a 20000 euros bike which is not able to ride 200kms in a row.

It is very unpleasant to be sold a 20000 euros a prototype bike.

Another guy in my regions has bought a 2012 model, he also faces endless problems and gets very disapointed and angry (he waited 1 1/2 year to get his bike).

I can tell you that Norton's image is very bad over here...

NORTON MOTORCYCLES UK LTD. Following the posting by Pierre-Oliver Michel,regarding his 2011 Norton Commando we decided to step in and resolve the current issues Mr Michel has. We collected the bike from Mr Michel in France and returned direct to the factory. It was immediately clear the bike had had much non standard work carried out to it and was obviously in a poor state. We have replaced all parts back to original and given the bike a thorough inspection so it is back to itâs original factory specification. We are now in the process of returning the bike back to Mr Michel in France. All of this has been done by the factory free of charge as we felt Mr Michel had been poorly treated by the work done to his bike from the non French dealer. We will be taking this up with the dealer in question and have apologised for the poor service Mr Michel received from the dealer in question. You can be assured the Norton Factory will NEVER abandon itâs valued riders.

Who said that the good old days were long gone, Well done Norton my utmost respect to you all.

Happy milesPierre

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Previously paul_baddeley wrote:

Previously sean_kynnersley wrote:

Previously pierre-olivier_michel wrote:

Hello all,

I find it important to share with you my very unpleasant experience with a 2010 Norton Commando 961 Cafe Racer.

As you may know, these models are protoypes that should not have been sold to customers.

Since I have bought my second hand bike in September 2012, I face endless problems that have involved from my side an important waste of time and money.

I and Egli Racing in Switzerland have probably done our best to make the bike work but my opinion has definitively changed this week-end with a new major breakdown that makes me say this bike is a real nightmare.

I have made 4 trips to Egli Racing 350kms far from my place in France to solve oil leaks, injection programming issues, starter and ECU issues, and then injection programming again.

During my last stay at Egli's 2 weeks ago, Egli has also fixed a major default of the 2010 series involving hydraulic press opening the valves (translation probably is approximate).

And what happened two days ago ? One of this 2 hydraulic press broke down, which could have involved a serious engine damage... and left me stuck in the rain

250kms far from home.

After 9 monthes of intense struggle to make the bike work, I should say I have no other solution to ask Norton to refund me or to change it.

It is deeply unacceptable to have a 20000 euros bike which is not able to ride 200kms in a row.

It is very unpleasant to be sold a 20000 euros a prototype bike.

Another guy in my regions has bought a 2012 model, he also faces endless problems and gets very disapointed and angry (he waited 1 1/2 year to get his bike).

I can tell you that Norton's image is very bad over here...

NORTON MOTORCYCLES UK LTD. Following the posting by Pierre-Oliver Michel,regarding his 2011 Norton Commando we decided to step in and resolve the current issues Mr Michel has. We collected the bike from Mr Michel in France and returned direct to the factory. It was immediately clear the bike had had much non standard work carried out to it and was obviously in a poor state. We have replaced all parts back to original and given the bike a thorough inspection so it is back to itâs original factory specification. We are now in the process of returning the bike back to Mr Michel in France. All of this has been done by the factory free of charge as we felt Mr Michel had been poorly treated by the work done to his bike from the non French dealer. We will be taking this up with the dealer in question and have apologised for the poor service Mr Michel received from the dealer in question. You can be assured the Norton Factory will NEVER abandon itâs valued riders.

Who said that the good old days were long gone, Well done Norton my utmost respect to you all.

Happy milesPierre

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Since May 2012 I am enjoying to ride my Norton Commando 961 CafÃ? Racer. That I still can enjoy riding this great bike is mainly due to Fritz W. Egli and his crew in Bettwil, Switzerland.

In the first months I encountered some issues with my bike that are indisputably based on faults in design. Main issue was a heavy oil consumption (about 1 litre for 500 miles, that corresponds around 1 litre for 800 kilometres!). Second issue was inacceptable rattling noise from primary drive and some other minor issues like the chain touching a screw and scraping it during driving as other minor issues that also have to be covered by the warranty of Norton.Egli Motorradtechnik AG (EMT AG) executed all necessary work and replacements of parts without complications and all free of charge, because all these repairs were clearly matters of warranty to be covered. As I have my contract with EMT AG, Fritz W. Egli is responsible to accomplish warranty repairs and these were done to my full satisfaction. Because he is not receiving from Norton the spare parts for the repairs in necessary amount and quality, he had to take these parts from new Norton bikes. He is now in the very uncomfortable situation that he is waiting for the payment of manpower, materials used and also for the spare parts from Norton that he used to accomplish the repairs in short as possible time so that constumers like me did not have to wait for long until they could continue enjoy riding their bikes.The reason that I am writing all this, is that I was alarmed not by the above story of Mr P. O. Michel but by the response to it by NORTON MOTORCYCLES UK LTD. It is extremely unfair of Norton to come up with unproved allegations and to attack the reputation of Fritz W. Egli and his team. As I mentioned before, the mechanicians of EMT AG have my full confidence in their work. The measures taken by them have solved the initial problems with my Norton bike. F.W. Egli is well known in the international biker scene since many years for his knowledge in motorcycle technic and mechanics and has a very good reputation.To remember, EMT AG is forced up to now to take spare parts for repairs from NEW Commando 961 bikes, because Norton is not able to deliver these parts.I am one of more than 80 persons who bought their Commando 961 from EMT AG, Switzerland. I drove till today more than 4000 miles with my new Norton and hope that it will not end for me in a nightmare...If Norton Factory really cares about their customers, they have to be correct to the Norton-dealers abroad and not to accuse them for 'poor service' as they did in their response above!To finish, just this:To be assured "the Norton Factory will NEVER abandon itâs valued riders" Norton has to supply their dealers abroad with the spare parts needed and also refund them for manpower and materials needed to serve the Norton-customers according warranty issues.Only if this comes true, I can sleep more comfortable without worrying about nightmares!Raphael Vonaesch, Switzerland
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NORTON MOTORCYCLES UK LTD

Dear Raphael Vonaesch

Really good to hear your happy with your 961 and enjoying many miles on it...

We absolutely did not mention a dealer or any details in our previous reply, that would have been wrong to do so. We simply stepped in as Mr Michel was in between a rock and a hard place, it was not fair or right that he should not have his bike running in good order. We will always support our riders and of course our dealers. We are pleased to hear you have good service with your local dealer. We have great communication with the Norton Egli dealership and ship parts regularly to them, we will continue to do this and you can be sure of great support for all riders from the Norton factory.

Regards

Norton

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Dear Mr Kinnersley

It is true that you did not directelymention a dealer, but Mr Michel did. With your statement 'non French dealer' together with the story of Mr Michel it seems in my eyes clear which dealer you meant. But this does not really matter, if Norton really keeps the above stated promise that Norton factory will in future improve communication and regular shipment of parts to my local dealer.

It is by purpose that I say 'promise' as I have first-hand knowledge of the fact that this unfortunately is not true for the present.

Regards

Raphael Vonaesch, Switzerland

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Hello all,

Thanks a lot for your posts.

I should recognize that Norton has done extra service by picking up the bike in France and is currently doing his best to fix eveything. I guess there is plenty of work...

Mr Egli has also done his best to make the bike running without success.

As a basic customer with poor bike knowledge, I am not able to sort out who is responsible for what in this nasty affair and I should say this is not my business.

I am only expecting to have my bike returned to France (probably at the end of July) to enjoy the end of the bike season.

Cheers

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Hello Pierre-Olivier

Did you finally receive your bike back from Norton factory? It is now almost 3 months that Norton wrote in this forum that they ...

" ... have replaced all parts back to original and given the bike a thorough inspection so it is back to itâs original factory specification. We are now in the process of returning the bike back to Mr Michel in France."

(posted by Sean Kynnersley, NORTON at June 25. 2013)

I hope that you have now a bike running like it should and that weather conditions still allow youmany enjoyable rides before winter arrives.

Regards, Raphael

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Hello Raphael,

I finally got my bike on the 12th of September. Norton has replaced the 4 lifters involved in the 2010 model's major default as well as the 2 pistons and most of the gaskels and bolts.

I should say that they have fixed the major issues I faced with my bike : it starts smoothly and runs wonderfully above 3000 rpms.

On the other hand, the bike's behaviour is erratic below 3000 rpms and the engine often interrupts while slowing down before stopping. Oil consumption is also very important : around 400ml during the first 250 miles. I will follow it up very carefully...

Like Raphael, I really trust in Mr Egli and his team in Betwill. Mr Adams and Mrs Elliott from Norton Motorcycles have also shown their goodwilling to fix my bike issues. I sincerely thank Norton for that.

I sincerely regret the situation between Egli racing and Norton, this is not reflecting what a partnership should be. What is more regrettable is that this situation affects customer service and satisfaction.

I am now happy to enjoy my bike for autumn rides and to have this very unpleasant story behind me.

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Hallo all participants of this discusion

Michael wrote 0.4 ltr. for 250 miles, that corresponds to 1 ltr. / 1000km.

Is that figure not too high??????

What does MrSean Kynnersley say?

I'm faccing the same trouble now, high oil consumption. My NC961 is now by EMT AG for repair (under the warranty). Accordingwrokshop foreman, the cylinders are oversized and EMT AG Bettwill is waiting for spares.It's winter already and I hope that the problem with the spares and the repair itself will be solved till the new season begins.

Regards

Gabriel

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Hi Gabriel

Oil consumption up to 1l/1000 miles is considered by the industry (all manufacturers) to be acceptable.It's afigure that has probably not been revised since the 1960s.

David

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Hi Gabriel

Oil consumption up to 1l/1000 miles is considered by the industry (all manufacturers) to be acceptable.It's afigure that has probably not been revised since the 1960s.

David

Hi David,

1000 miles is 1.609 time more, then 1000 km. Acceptable oil consumption will be then 1/1.609 ltrs per 1000 km, what is 0.62 ltr.

Therefore I asked if 1 ltr / 1000 km is not too much.

Regards

Gabriel

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Hi Gabriel

Oil consumption up to 1l/1000 miles is considered by the industry (all manufacturers) to be acceptable.It's afigure that has probably not been revised since the 1960s.

David

That's 500 miles per pint. I would argue any road vehicle with this oil consumption indicates a serious problem.

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Hi Gabriel,

I should havephrased my response differently.

Oil consumption of 1l/1000kms (625miles) is too much. Oil consumption up to 1l/1600kms (1000 miles) is seen by the industry as acceptable.

I hope this clears it up for you.

David

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Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Hi Gabriel

Oil consumption up to 1l/1000 miles is considered by the industry (all manufacturers) to be acceptable.It's afigure that has probably not been revised since the 1960s.

David

That's 500 miles per pint. I would argue any road vehicle with this oil consumption indicates a serious problem.I could not agree with you more Simon. Considering todays manufacturing capabilities I would be worried with1000 miles per pint. But how does an owner convince the manufacturer there is a problem when in their eyes it is within acceptable levels? Catch 22.

David

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If a current manufacturer is trying to convince a customer this sort of oil consumption is acceptable, then they are completely out of touch with current standards. I would expect negligible oil consumption between changes. I certainly wouldn't expect to have to top up the tank every 500 miles on a hand built, quality motorcycle as owners and potential owners claim these bikes are.

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High oil consumption is not confined to productsof any specific manufacturer whether hand built or not. A quick search on Googlebrings up dozens of messages on owners clubs boards regarding highoil consumption on new or newishbikes.

To quote from a far east manufacturers website "The oil consumption considered to be acceptable by the manufacturer may differ from the expectations of the user." A catch all statement in my opinion.

It would seem to methat some -if not all - manufacturers would not feel obliged to investigate the cause ofhigh oil consumption unless this was above the 1l/1000mile "hurdle".

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Is this just the motorcycle world? You can guarantee those figures, quite understandably, would not be acceptable to your average car owner.

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I would suggest that the figures are not acceptable to the average bike owner either, but what is the solution?

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Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Complain until the manufacturer puts it right.

Complain thata manufacturer is working within industry tolerances???

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Complain until the manufacturer puts it right.

Complain thata manufacturer is working within industry tolerances???

There is no such thing as 'Industry tolerances' there are design tolerances specified by the guy who did the engine design work

How do these oil consumption figures compare with new Triumphs, BMW's, KTM etc. not to mention HD and the Japanese constructors?

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The fiqures being quoted here is almost 2 stroke comsumption. Are we sure it is being accuraty measured?

Before I had my 850 Commando rebored the oil consumption was high which showed itself by clouds of blue smoke, oily wet silencer, and it ruined spark plugs in no time.

Does this 961 show any of those symptoms?

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Previously peter_stowe wrote:

The fiqures being quoted here is almost 2 stroke comsumption. Are we sure it is being accuraty measured?

Before I had my 850 Commando rebored the oil consumption was high which showed itself by clouds of blue smoke, oily wet silencer, and it ruined spark plugs in no time.

Does this 961 show any of those symptoms?

I can confirm the figures about oil consumption stated by other riders. My measurements over the last 700 miles show that my bike used a bit more than 1.6 litres per 1'000 miles ( >= 1 lt. per 1'000 km) in average.

I could not observe the symptoms mentioned above...

Raphael

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Complain until the manufacturer puts it right.

Complain thata manufacturer is working within industry tolerances???

As you stated previously David, those standards are probably from the 1960's. Times, expectations and more importantly, machining standards change. My 2002, 148,000 mile diesel van does not require topping up between 10,000 mile oil changes.

I can't see a new vehicle with this sort of consumption passing typical emission tests - especially in the USA. If this figure was typical there would be a blue haze in every town and city.

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I guess those industry standards about oil consumption is just a way of the manufacturers to protect themselves from warranty issues.

I am curious what our US friends will report about oil consumption.

Raphael

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Previously charles_bovington wrote:

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Complain until the manufacturer puts it right.

Complain thata manufacturer is working within industry tolerances???

There is no such thing as 'Industry tolerances' there are design tolerances specified by the guy who did the engine design work

How do these oil consumption figures compare with new Triumphs, BMW's, KTM etc. not to mention HD and the Japanese constructors?

If not "industry tolerance" it is a figure that has been accepted and is being used by the industry as a whole.

Iam not for one minute suggesting that every bike produced has such oil consumption. But every manufacturer seems to produce "rogue" bikes, whether they be Japanese, German or whatever, that consume oil like it is going out of fashion. The problem then is for the owner to get the manufacturer to accept that there is a problem, which they will not do when the oil consumption is within the accepted industry level.

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Iam not for one minute suggesting that every bike produced has such oil consumption. But every manufacturer seems to produce "rogue" bikes, whether they be Japanese, German or whatever, that consume oil like it is going out of fashion. The problem then is for the owner to get the manufacturer to accept that there is a problem, which they will not do when the oil consumption is within the accepted industry level.

But does the industry standard meet new vehicle emission standards - I would be surprised if it does and therefore argue is not acceptable.

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Yes it will providing the testedvehicles are at the "bottom end" of the scale consuming little to no oil. Like any test it is a certain question answeredon a certain date - what happens after the test has no relevance to the test itself (think driving test).Maybe it ispossible to "help things on their way" through selective testing, ie the manufacturer allows purpose built or pretested vehicles that are known to be built to the correct tolerances to be tested.

Also to be taken into consideration is thatmotorcycles are only subject to Euro 3 emissions testing were as a petrol driven car needs to meet Euro 5 and soon Euro 6.

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Previously peter_stowe wrote:

The fiqures being quoted here is almost 2 stroke comsumption. Are we sure it is being accuraty measured?

Before I had my 850 Commando rebored the oil consumption was high which showed itself by clouds of blue smoke, oily wet silencer, and it ruined spark plugs in no time.

Does this 961 show any of those symptoms?

No it doesn't. No blue clouds, no oily silencer ends, no plug failures. Not any signs of rather high oil consumption, except the oil level falling down in the oil tank. I'm wondering where the oil disappears.

I bought a 961 last winter and have ridden 10.000 miles absolutely without any problems this season. But oil consumption is close to 1 ltr / 1000 kms which is annoying especially on longer trips I use to ride. When I rode across the Europe to the Norton factory for the first service, I had to buy three bottles of oil, from Poland, Germany and Belgium. The recommended Silkolene wasn't available on those service stations.

I asked about oil consumtion at the factory. They said it's normal. So I decided I can live with that, being the one and only discomfort I've met with the fantastic bike. At least until now.

Juha Juurikkala, Finland

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Previously juha_juurikkala wrote:

Not any signs of rather high oil consumption, except the oil level falling down in the oil tank. I'm wondering where the oil disappears.

I bought a 961 last winter and have ridden 10.000 miles absolutely without any problems this season. But oil consumption is close to 1 ltr / 1000 kms which is annoying especially on longer trips I use to ride. When I rode across the Europe to the Norton factory for the first service, I had to buy three bottles of oil, from Poland, Germany and Belgium. The recommended Silkolene wasn't available on those service stations.

I asked about oil consumtion at the factory. They said it's normal. So I decided I can live with that, being the one and only discomfort I've met with the fantastic bike. At least until now.

Juha Juurikkala, Finland

Juha,

If there are no oil leaks then the oil is going out the exhaust pipes even though there are no obvious signs. The figures you give equate to approx. 311 miles/pint!! This kind of consumption indicates the bores and rings require inspection regardless of what the factory say.

Are you going to the Britti Ralli?

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Hello Juha

Did you once inspect your spark plugs?

As I inspected mine recently, the left one was quite oily which might indicate that excessive oil has been burnt. As Simon says above I neither could imagine that the oil goes somewhere else in that amount than through the cylinders to the exhaust pipes...

Regards

Raphael, Switzerland

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Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Previously juha_juurikkala wrote:

Not any signs of rather high oil consumption, except the oil level falling down in the oil tank. I'm wondering where the oil disappears.

I bought a 961 last winter and have ridden 10.000 miles absolutely without any problems this season. But oil consumption is close to 1 ltr / 1000 kms which is annoying especially on longer trips I use to ride. When I rode across the Europe to the Norton factory for the first service, I had to buy three bottles of oil, from Poland, Germany and Belgium. The recommended Silkolene wasn't available on those service stations.

I asked about oil consumtion at the factory. They said it's normal. So I decided I can live with that, being the one and only discomfort I've met with the fantastic bike. At least until now.

Juha Juurikkala, Finland

Juha,

If there are no oil leaks then the oil is going out the exhaust pipes even though there are no obvious signs. The figures you give equate to approx. 311 miles/pint!! This kind of consumption indicates the bores and rings require inspection regardless of what the factory say.

Are you going to the Britti Ralli?

The last at the first: of course I'm going to the Britti-Ralli. I presented my 961 there last summer.

There are no oil leaks and the plugs are black but don't look oily. And having been interested in British bikes for almost 50 years, I really know what oily plugs are like!

Could it be possible that the modern fuel injection mixes the oil remnants with petrol more effectively than in the old carb engines? So perhaps the whole mixture burns more completely and disappears in the nature without leaving oil stains on exhausts?

I fully agree the oil must go away through the exhausts.

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Previously juha_juurikkala wrote:

The last at the first: of course I'm going to the Britti-Ralli. I presented my 961 there last summer.

There are no oil leaks and the plugs are black but don't look oily. And having been interested in British bikes for almost 50 years, I really know what oily plugs are like!

Could it be possible that the modern fuel injection mixes the oil remnants with petrol more effectively than in the old carb engines? So perhaps the whole mixture burns more completely and disappears in the nature without leaving oil stains on exhausts?

I fully agree the oil must go away through the exhausts.

It's possible the oil is mixing with fuel and burning, but as you know, it shouldn't be there in the first place. I'd get in touch with the factory, as I think in the long term there will be further problems. Anyway, I'll lookout for you at the Britti, I'll be on a blue Mk3 Interstate.

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Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Previously juha_juurikkala wrote:

The last at the first: of course I'm going to the Britti-Ralli. I presented my 961 there last summer.

There are no oil leaks and the plugs are black but don't look oily. And having been interested in British bikes for almost 50 years, I really know what oily plugs are like!

Could it be possible that the modern fuel injection mixes the oil remnants with petrol more effectively than in the old carb engines? So perhaps the whole mixture burns more completely and disappears in the nature without leaving oil stains on exhausts?

I fully agree the oil must go away through the exhausts.

It's possible the oil is mixing with fuel and burning, but as you know, it shouldn't be there in the first place. I'd get in touch with the factory, as I think in the long term there will be further problems. Anyway, I'll lookout for you at the Britti, I'll be on a blue Mk3 Interstate.

Welcome to the Britti Ralli Simon,

we'll see at Tommolansalmi which is very close to my home. Maybe I'm there on my ?35 CS1 if I'm meticilous enough to get it finished in time.

It's fine if you'll be in contact with Mr. Kynnersley at Nortons. It's really interesting to hear what he'll say.

Have you owned your Interstate for a long time? I've also an 850 Interstate '73 which I bought as new from the factory cos there wasn't a distributor in this country then. So I've had two new Commandos with 40 years' gap between them! I think I have to buy the next one in 2053!

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Hi Juha,

a slight misunderstanding. When I wrote "I'd get in touch with the factory...." I was suggesting that you have every right to speak with the factory due to your bikes oil consumption. It's the confusing English language. If you want me to speak to Mr Kinnersley on your behalf, I'm willing to do this. Although you may contact him directly through the NOC (click on 'Technical') as he has been appointed 961 technical specialist. Let me know.

I bought my Commando in 1987, only the 2nd owner. Over the miles (147,000) I've made a few changes. She looks fairly standard - but isn't.

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Previously charles_bovington wrote:

Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

Complain until the manufacturer puts it right.

Complain thata manufacturer is working within industry tolerances???

There is no such thing as 'Industry tolerances' there are design tolerances specified by the guy who did the engine design work

How do these oil consumption figures compare with new Triumphs, BMW's, KTM etc. not to mention HD and the Japanese constructors?

I cannot tell you about all the other's but I am a BMW Certified Master Tech, and BMW's spec on oil consumption is 1 qt. per 800 miles is within factory spec--if your motorcycle is using that amount or less then BMW see's no problem and will not address it as such

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Previously tom_high wrote:

I cannot tell you about all the other's but I am a BMW Certified Master Tech, and BMW's spec on oil consumption is 1 qt. per 800 miles is within factory spec--if your motorcycle is using that amount or less then BMW see's no problem and will not address it as such

For the uninitiated 1 US Quart = 0,946L

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Previously tom_high wrote:

I cannot tell you about all the other's but I am a BMW Certified Master Tech, and BMW's spec on oil consumption is 1 qt. per 800 miles is within factory spec--if your motorcycle is using that amount or less then BMW see's no problem and will not address it as such

Within your job role I assume you are aware of the theory and machining operations required to bore and hone a cylinder. With advances in machine tools, technology and materials would you expect todays motorcycles to have comparable, or even worse oil consumption figures than that of motorcycles from 50 years ago? Never mind what BMW, Norton and other manufacturers claim what is normal, this is obviously a get out clause to reduce warranty claims. Use your common sense.

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How is it that: a modern, turbo charged, diesel engine, with recommended oil changes at 30,000 Km, can cover this distance without topping up the oil?

There must be something radically wrong with modern motorcycles.

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I find it odd that, for many years now, new cars have required no running-in period whereas new motorcycles still continue to do so. Is this difference connected in any way to the apparent oil-usage norms of both types of vehicle discussed above, I wonder?

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Previously howard_thompson wrote:

I find it odd that, for many years now, new cars have required no running-in period whereas new motorcycles still continue to do so. Is this difference connected in any way to the apparent oil-usage norms of both types of vehicle discussed above, I wonder?

The term running-in refers to when the piston rings wear away the peaks on the cylinder surface left from the honing operation. Rings wear during this process too, so shortening their life. With advances in technology and surface finishing (e.g plateau honing) running-in is now a thing of the past - with motor cars at least.

A cylinder which has been properly bored and honed will have very little cylinder/piston ring leakage i.e minimal oil consumption and will require no running in.

Any typical motorbike engine consuming 1 litre per 1000 miles or 1 quart per 800 miles needs attention in my opinion. The cylinders could be suffering from distortion when hot, which is a design fault. It's not what I would expect from a new, 2013 motorbike. E.g my 1975 Commando is currently consuming approx.1 pint/1000 miles (which I'm not happy with) under normal use i.e regularly revved to 6,000rpm through the gears, 80 mph cruising speed - and this is with a slight head gasket leak.

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Hmmm... if a two cylinder bike will burn 1L / 1000km, does that mean that a modern V8 engine will burn 4L in 1000km? That would empty the crankcase!!!!!

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Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

Hmmm... if a two cylinder bike will burn 1L / 1000km, does that mean that a modern V8 engine will burn 4L in 1000km? That would empty the crankcase!!!!!

Only if it was made by a manufacturer who claimed 1L/1000km oil consumption is normal.

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Previously simon_ratcliff wrote:

With advances in technology and surface finishing (e.g plateau honing) running-in is now a thing of the past - with motor cars at least.

In the world of cars, a long, long way in the past apparently. In 1939 MG set world speeed records for under 1100cc cars (at c200mph) on a German autobahn then, working by the roadside, bored out the engine to 1105cc and broke the records for the larger category cars the following day - no running-in required apparently!

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Previously david_charlesworth wrote:

I think nowwould be agood time to hear Norton/Sean Kynnersley's opinion.

Mr Sean Kinnersley does not read the owners comments obviously. Or he is not allowed to answer or advice do to serious problems in design of the engine. Or am I wrong?

 


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