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Over-excited oil tank breather

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Hi. My 99 is now being put through its running-in paces. It’s all going well but I seem to be getting a lot of oil out of the oil tank breather. I also get a few streaks of oil running down the outside of the oil tank even though I fitted a new cork washer in the filler cap. The oil level in the oil tank looks correct - it’s just below the top pressed line of the tank. The breather chucks out so much oil that I get a puddle on the garage floor after the bike has been parked up overnight. The rear chain is also getting ‘well lubricated’ as the breather pipe sits in the metal stub pipe on top of the chainguard. I’m using running-in oil but I can’t see how that would cause the problem. Is my oil level wrong? Does it sound like I’m getting an ‘unusual’ amount of frothing in the oil tank - if so, why?

Any ideas and advice gratefully accepted.

Thanks

Regards

Tony

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Running in can sometimes take longer than we wish , and until there is a good seal you can expect extra blowby to cause heavy breathing . It’s the reason I piped my breather to the oil tank. Now I have no mess under the bike but it’s messy in the oil tank!!.    

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Later tanks had a 'froth tower' to reduce/prevent this. Norton knew it was an issue and advised a lower oil level for fast runs!

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Thanks guys. At least it sounds like my bike is behaving ‘normally’ ( well, as normal as any Norton can be)! The bike has only done 133 miles so rings probably aren’t bedding in very much yet.

Regards

Tony

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seem on the ball to me, you will get lots of blow-by with new rings + bores etc. 

On my bike, I have a Commando oil filter plate behind the gearbox between the engine plates, and a 1/4 litre plastic bottle tucked between the gearbox and frame gusset.  The crank case and oil tank breather pipes go into it.  If you can find space for a larger bottle it would be a good idea.  You can put the oil caught in the bottle back in the oil tank, or perhaps on the rear chain.  Much better than spreading the oil on the ground or over your rear tyre.  It means you can monitor how much oil is escaping via the breathers.

My tank (1955) does not have level lines on it, but half way up the tank is minimum, max is 3/4 tank, the extra is frothing space.  In my opinion the tank is too small. 

I need to check just how much oil my bike is using, but the tank was alarmingly empty when I checked during a petrol stop during a run.  It was down to 1/4 full, having been over 3/4 full last time I checked it earlier that day.  Good thing I carry a 2 litre bottle on long runs......

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The post 1955 Dominator oil cap is heavily abused by over-tightening. The consequence of this being the top edge of the oil tank filler lip becoming distorted where the ears/tangs of the cap engage. This distortion can be seen by first wetting the lip with a trace of oil and then setting a small sheet of glass on top of the filler lip.  A piece of thick Perspex will do as an alternate. If a continuous ring cannot be seen then the potential for a leak is there. Usually a new gasket will usually do the trick but serious distortion may require some metal working.

Another problem that can occur, in this area, is again due to over-zealous cap turning. The filler lip is held in place on the tank by a folded and pressed internal metal band. This can be manufactured with a gap between the joins or wear and tear can do a similar job. Either way, hot oily vapour just loves these kind of joints and will show itself on the outside of the tank as a thin dribble running down from the cap. A quick fix that did seem to work in the past was to clean the area suspected of leaking and then spread hot Araldite over the seam. A gas torch can be used to warm the Araldite while it is being applied. Do remove the oil tank from the bike first.

The Norton Factory knew they had a excess vapour problem once the 99 engine appeared. Thus the original short pipe, from the back of the engine to the gearbox sprocket, then got hooked up to the oil tank. This works well with half a tank of oil but not with the correct amount. Then the camshaft driven breather disc had its timing changed but this only partially helped. The best solution being the froth tower oil tank fitted to 1962 on Dominators.........unless of course you have splits or distortions as mentioned above.

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is for the slimline frame.  Would it fit the narrower wideline? I know I have seen pictures of the froth tower arrangement, but don't know where to find one.

Can you give details of the breather timing, in its early and later form?  If you have a replacement cam, will it have the revised timing? 

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A tower can be hard soldered to the tank and some 3/8”. Copper gas pipe unions soldered in . Fumes and oil going in on the lower pipe , fumes going out on the higher and piped to the chain or rear of bike. The only issue can be condensation that can gather in the tank making regular oil changes important,

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The froth tower of the slimline oil tank can go into the wide line BUT 2 areas of sorting needed. First the Wideline tool tray becomes an embarrassment, it can be removed and replaced with a Slimline tool tray-same side hole spacing. The slimline oil tank then has a top mounting bracket with nowhere to go!. You can ignore the bracket. BUT then the vibration splits out the bottom of the oil tank, it makes a mess, I know!

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directly in front of your rear tyre will make a mess of your trousers as well....

I had a riffle on line, and found a page on Access Norton describing a revised froth tower arrangement:

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/atlas-dommie-oil-mist-scrubber.16411/

Just theorizing, but if you mount a slimline oil tank in a wideline, you could use a spacer between the tank's upper mount and the frame's bracket.  No idea how wide that would have to be.

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Thanks everyone for your contributions. I did think that it was a bit odd not having a froth tower on the oil tank but I assumed Norton knew what they were doing!

Paul, that link to the US web site is very interesting. I already use an engine breather catch pot from an Indian Enfield Bullet 500. I’ve mounted it to the frame so that it sits just under the tool tray. It seems to work well for the timed breather mist. It has a ‘scrubber’ pad set-up in it just like the one described in that Access Norton web post. I think I’ll try installing another inlet pipe into the catch pot and see if connecting the oil tank breather to it improves things. Hopefully the pressure from the oil tank won’t interfere with the mist from the timed breather. I don’t think it will cause problems, but there’s only one way to find out …..

Regards

Tony

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would have a rising pipe from the engine, a one-way valve, and then a froth pot draining to the oil tank. No timed breather. 

I know that on a Vincent, the breather is timed to open at crank case maximum volume, and close at minimum volume. The timing is easily altered.  People experiment, and say that they get better results when the breather opens at half stroke and closes at half stroke.

But, a one way valve actually works better.

Tony, can you give me details so I can look up that interesting Enfield froth pot?

Paul

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Hi Paul. As I’ll be taking 
the catch pot off the bike to 
make the alterations, I’ll 
photograph it and post the 
photos on this thread. 
It came as original equipment 
on a 2002 Enfield 500ES that I 
used to own. I discarded it 
from the Enfield as it wasn’t 
needed, but being a ‘parts 
hoarder’ I didn’t throw it 
away :-)

 


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