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Overflowing tickler

Submitted by ian_smith1 on Fri, 08/04/2022
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Light Twins

Hi All. In the process of re-commissioning my 1960 Jubilee which has not been started since 1994. Making progress but today I managed to get petrol flowing into the Amal 375/43 carburettor. Having opened the fuel tap on the tank within no time, petrol started to overflow out of the tickler on the side of the carb. I took it off and everything seems to be okay although there is nothing obvious to seal the spring loaded centre which moves up and down? Am I missing something here? It needs to be a tight fit within the collar. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

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Submitted by george_farenden on Fri, 08/04/2022

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Hi, 

Whilst the tickler should be spring loaded, there isn't a seal on it ( well on my 389's there isn't) as that is where the paint stripper, sorry petrol comes out of when you tickle it.

If you have petrol flowing out of it, then the float/float needle isn't doing its job, possibly due to debris from the tank going through the tap and holding the float needle off its seat.

Could also be the float is not as buoyant as it should be or it is binding on the body/float cover? Again, my 389's with the 'stayup' float needed a 2nd gasket between the body and cover for it to work.

If there is any rust inside the tank, any deterioration of the tap or fuel lines or filters, then particles WILL find their way into the carb.

Note: If the tank was lined in 1994, eg. Petseal,  then 99% of modern fuels will destroy it and you will get a blocked carb. Only solution to that is to chemically remove the liner and start again.

Best wishes on the rebuild,

George. 

Hi George

Many thanks for your swift reply and good advice. I had examined the carb. and the float is brass. This seems to be working okay but will take the whole thing to bits again and double check. I am getting a good spark from the plugs and I am pretty sure that fuel starvation is a major stumbling block. Initially, I am keen to get the engine running and once I have achieved this then I can re-trace my steps and be more meticulous second time round. You are right about the 'tickler' as there is no seal and this must reply on the float/needle to cut off the overflow.

Submitted by ian_soady on Sat, 09/04/2022

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... that the brass spacer on the outer end of the float spindle is present as it's very easily lost and the float then hangs up. I would buy a new viton tipped float needle anyway as previous types often leak.

Hi Ian Many thanks for your comments. I am confident the brass spacer is present but two things are now on my list ie there appears to be no gasket between the float chamber and the screw on lid plus I may have replaced the viton tipped float needle the wrong way up. Anyway, have ordered a new gasket set from NOC and when this arrives I shall open up the float chamber and check on the needle. Then I can replace the float, needle, spacer and new gasket. Then maybe, the petrol will flow correctly and I will stand a better chance of starting the engine. Fingers crossed. Many thanks to all for your help.

 

Submitted by mikael_ridderstad on Sat, 09/04/2022

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In my youth it was not uncommon that monoblocs sometimes leaked. Solved with a not too gentle hand hit on the carburettor. The shock probably aligned the float needle. Did work last year on a B44 too. Of course replacing some parts is a more permanent solution.

Submitted by ian_smith1 on Mon, 11/04/2022

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Hi Mikael. Many thanks for your practical suggestion. I removed the float chamber cover and discovered that I had replaced the float needle in the wrong way with the vitron end impacting on the float. Put the needle back in the right way and the float now works. This may seem like a silly question but I have fitted an in line filter to catch any dirt etc coming out of the tank but between this filter and the carb., the rubber pipe is nearly vertical. Is this likely to be a problem or am I being daft? I am assuming the 'flow' will enable the petrol to reach the carb? I have re-checked the plugs and I still have a spark and the plugs now smell of petrol.....but still no luck with getting the bike to start up. Regards Ian

Hi George. You were correct. The float was stuck due my own stupidity in fitting the float needle wrong side up. The float now works fine but still no joy with starting. I have a good spark and I have fitted an in line filter to catch any muck coming out of the tank. I shall keep trying but you were spot on. Best regards Ian

Submitted by mikael_ridderstad on Mon, 11/04/2022

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Usually when you suspect a carb issue, it's an ignition problem. When you suspect ignition, it's a carb problem. Using a spray can of starting fluid can give a hint. Another old trick was to warm the spark plug on a stove, but that worked best on singles. But it can be other things e.g. wrong valve tappet clearance.

Submitted by ian_smith1 on Thu, 14/04/2022

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Just to say that this afternoon I managed to start the engine which was a great feeling. Has not run since 1994 so it is good to know that there is some 'life' there. Now need to make sure that the oil is circulating as it should do and check the compression. The engine was firing on both cylinders which is another 'tick'. My grateful thanks to all for your useful comments and advice. As they say on the tv 'to be continued'........

Submitted by ian_smith1 on Sat, 23/04/2022

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Just wanted to ask whether anyone has experienced petrol fumes in an integral garage. As you may gather from the above, I am making efforts to set up the carburettor. I had purchased a gasket kit from NOC but I found these lacking in some respects. The vital gasket on the float chamber broke as the holes were slightly adrift and the main jet gasket washer was too big. Anyway, this meant that I had petrol leaking out from two different places and I decided in the end to send off for a gasket set from Amal. I had no choice but to drain the float chamber and the rest of the carb for now. However, despite having the tank tap in the off position and with no leaks on the fuel pipe I am still getting a strong smell of petrol from the bike. I have now drained the tank to try and improve things but fumes are 'wafting' through the walls and ceiling into other parts of the house. As you can't imagine me and the Jubilee are not popular. I have attached a picture of the petrol tank cap which I assume is fairly standard. Are there any bright ideas out there please?

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Submitted by john_holmes on Sun, 24/04/2022

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The hole in the cap is a permanent breather, put some tape over and see how the house smells a few days later. If the tape confirms its the cap breather then use tape when in the garage, if you forget to take the tape off before riding you will not get far. 

Ian,

The petrol smell will hang around for Days especially if you have petrol soaked rags laying about.

One dodge I have is to light a candle away from any thing flammable and let it burn for an hour or so.

Hi John

Sounds a good idea. I shall disappear forthwith and tape over the hole. I have had a good 'sniff' around the carb etc and cannot detect any smells so the tank is my last resort.

Best regards

Ian

Hi Don

Many thanks for your reply. I have made sure any smelly rags etc are well clear. Will give the candle dodge some thought.

Best regards

Ian

Dear John. Followed your advice and used some thick tape to cover the fuel cap vent. This has certainly reduced the smell which is great news and I appreciate your wise words. Many thanks Ian 

Submitted by robert_tuck on Tue, 26/04/2022

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If you move the machine around you can create a pressure of petrol vapour in the tank ,so its a good idea to remove the tape till it settles. Same thing if there is a sudden  large temperature variation.  I also tape over to avoid moisture gathering in the tank over winter.

Submitted by ian_soady on Wed, 27/04/2022

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... I've never had any smell of petrol from the breather in a tank cap of any bike I've had in 60 years. Or maybe my sense of smell has been diminished over the years.....

Submitted by john_crocker on Wed, 27/04/2022

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.... with Ian S.  My garage is full of bikes and doesn't smell of petrol.  That is until a leak develops as happened recently with an ancient "Petroflex" pipe that was clearly past its sell by date.

If the smell persists I would be looking for leaks rather than blocking the tank vent.

Submitted by ian_smith1 on Thu, 05/05/2022

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I have now ordered a new gasket set from Amal and can be confident that the holes and sizing etc will be spot on. I shall make sure that all the seals on the carb. work as they should and then try again. Good point about the pressure building up in the tank with the vent taped over. Similar to my plastic petrol can which can sometimes bulge and 'hiss' when you open the cap.

Submitted by david_cooper on Thu, 05/05/2022

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I'd be looking for vapour paths from garage to house before anything else. And I don't even like candles on the mantelpiece.  Some of my bikes sometimes smell. I like to empty the float chambers before leaving them (although often don't).  I don't rely on the float sealing for a long time without turning off the tap.  Small leaks can often be sealed by rubbing them with a bar of soap. Handy to know in an emergency.

Submitted by ian_soady on Fri, 06/05/2022

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... remember that there should not be a fibre sealing ring between the needle valve housing and the carb body. Modern monoblocs do have one but not originals.

 


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