Fuels

Plenty of posts to read. However the valve seats are fine with all the fuels , If you can buy Esso synergy plus  its likely to have no ethanol  or only 5%  ,whichever all the synergy plus pumps will have an  e5  sticker  on them  anyway.

It was. I suggest you research Cleveland Discol - widely available in the 1950s and contained up to 20% (although the exact figure is hard to come by) ethanol suppled by Distillers Co.........

This is from "The Automobile Engineer" , 1934.

Note the problems with evaporation. Probably end up using more fuel to get the same power.

They say it had 20% alcohol.

The Automobile Engineer notes that the latent heat of vaporisation of ethanol is three times as much as petrol. However, the combustion energy is only about 30GJ/tonne too, whereas petroleum spirit is about 47 GJ/tonne too.

So we could expect a 3% reduction in mpg from 10% ethanol fuel, and worse from methanol.

"While it’s true that gasoline has a higher energy density (about 18,400 BTU/pound) than methanol (9,500 BTU/pound), if you can burn three times more methanol than gasoline per power stroke, you can make more power. An engine that flows 1,000 cfm of air (about 70 pounds worth) means that on gasoline, the engine will consume about 5.6 pounds of fuel based upon its 12.5:1 max power ratio, giving a total energy output of (5.6 pounds x 18,400 BTU) or 103,040 BTUs of energy. If we do the same calculation on methanol, we get 17.5 pounds of fuel burned, and (17.5 pounds x 9,500 BTU) or 166,250 BTUs of energy—that’s a 60 percent greater energy output."

Says the Fuel Freedom Foundation.

I'm currently using E10 with no issues. Also it is little known that the UK petrol is modified 4 times a year to suit the seasons. It is blended to help vaporisation. 

The pump symbol means that the fuel can contain up to 10% ethanol, but that does not mean what was actually delivered to the filling station was at that ratio - it depends on ethanol availability at the refinery and fuel company policy.  So it is quite possible they what you are using is not even 5% ethanol.

Fuels labelled E10 ( all 95 octane) must have between 5 and 10% ethanol in them. This is the law. Only the high octane grades can be E0, even if the pump says E5.

George 

Well said Andrew.

Most UK ethanol is made from  wheat and the UK was already a net importer of wheat.

So much for the footprint.....

Esso Synergy Supreme+ with the red label, found outside of the 3 UK ethanol zones contains NO ethanol. And it will save draining tanks and carbs too.

Leave the snowflake fuel for the snowflakes...They deserve it.

Upto the 1st Sept the fuel could contain upto, but since it is the law. So for those in the zones and members in the EU, even the esso supreme at E5 is usable. If you need to drain a tank on rideable bike then you are not riding it enough. This snowflake rides all year round even down to 0 C and doesn't need to drain anything. 

Having the carb freeze as you ride can be alarming and dangerous.  We are stuck with this  fuel now so it would be good if we can work out a fix  for our old bikes . Particularly important if you intend to ride into the colder damp  weather . It has happened to me  many times even before Ethanol was forced upon me. Now it will be worse. Just as well I  don't HAVE to ride anymore. How about a clamp/bolt on 12v heating  device  with timer to attach to carb or air filterbox ?.

You can remove ethanol fairly easily, but you would need a large translucent or semi-translucent container - at least 5 litres.  Plenty of info and YouTube videos on the interweb.  Add your favourite petrol additive before using it.

When it was last running my 99 used to do about 70 mpg, so that's well over 200 miles per tankful. 

Neil,

Just to point out that December 2010 was the coldest and snowiest December on record in the UK and Spring 2013 was the coldest and snowiest since 1963. Just two examples.

PS: I'm an all year round non snowflake....Bla Bla Bla

I suspect it happened to me because my bike was parked outside  and got extra cold , the  bike was also often  parked in a damp garage  which may have increased the water content of the fuel. .

Way back when, one of many jobs I had saw me employed in the Parts Department of the local Peugeot dealership.Most of the minicabs around there were diesel 504s, and we did a roaring trade in an antifreeze additive. But I doubt theres anything comparable for petrol, and certainly nothing that will compensate for the lack of bang.

Ethanol is more hygroscopic than petroleum spirit, and so will absorb water vapour from the air when left in your tank.

So draining your tank over the winter is a good idea to reduce rusting at the bottom of your tank - if you haven't lined it.

Talking of lining - ethanol will dissolve the old tank lining stuff from 20 years ago, and dissolve fibre glass tanks like my old BSA Barracuda.

I thought I had removed all the sealant from one of my slimline tanks after ethanol had destroyed the 15 year old coating in 2007. Following a recent tank repair, I still found bits of solid Petseal rattling about. Only my 16H has the original Petseal still in perfect condition as it never did have any of this awful ethanol in the tank. BTW, some of that E0 fuel must be a dozen years old but it still starts up OK.Surely not having to throw fuel away is more environmentally friendly..And it gives more MPG.

I read somewhere that it takes a gallon of fuel to get  a gallon of ethanol  to use.  Don't know if its true but sounds a disaster.

It's worse than a disaster, Robert...

Like another off topic subject, close to my heart; How did we get into this mess?

To start with consider censorship!  (+ mind control and brainwashing)

Hi Neil,

You are correct about 2010 and 2013 but in 1963 as a 3rd year apprentice in County Durham I was travelling 20 miles each way to work every day. It had snowed heavily in late 1962 and became frozen solid for months. At the end of February a high wind overnight caused severe drifting and I set out as usual at 7:00 am. It took me until 12 noon to get to work, which was completely empty, I clocked on then held my hands under cold water for 5 minutes before clocking off and returned home. I can still feel the pain when I think about it. I always used Shell 5 star and the bike didn’t miss a beat.

Regards

Dick

Hi Dick,

Ah, Shell 5 star, those were the days. I remember the total white out Christmas 1962, living in the Midlands at the time. But I wonder, in those conditions if your bike would have even started using E5 or E10? Not so Green behind the ears back then.

Progress indeed! 

BTW, 5G related. If an EMP (Pulse) is thrown, only vehicles fitted with a magneto will work.

Not sure about old style diesels ,but I think these have been taken off the road.....

Hi Neil,

I ran it on Castrol R40 and in those temperatures it was like treacle, but fortunately being 20 stone, as ready to ride, and 3 tickles of the carb it always started 1st kick.

Cheers

Dick

Hi Dick,

I always regard 40 grade oil, in my case SAE 40 as a good all year round choice in my twins. 30 would be better for cold weather starting but with limited use over the colder months I find topping up over the winter with SAE 30 a good compromise. 

A good heavy boot on the kick starter is a big advantage too.

These days,in heavy wet stuff, it is easier to get the car out and no chain maintenance afterwards.

Ride on,

Neil.

There are two question here but we seem to have majored on the ethanol question.

How about the first part question regarding running without lead in the petrol; was Roger asking - do we need lead free exhaust inserts in our cylinder heads

Roger's question again; will I need to add something to replace the tetraethyl lead that was used during 1957 and ...?

No need to employ leaded fuel or additives to protect the valve seats because they are already hard inserts in Norton twins.

This is true, David, Norton twin inserts can cope without lead as standard, especially if the engine is not run hard. Not the same for Norton singles, but again, gentle running will not result in rapid wear.

Since September 1999, when the old 4 Star was phased out I have used RedX synthetic lead replacement in both singles and twins. To date, no wear has been detected. 

Perhaps using Esso E0 petrol has helped in this respect?