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Timing side still oily.

Submitted by anthony_leedal on Sun, 12/06/2016
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Thanks to all who replied to my previous post but we are still having trouble with my friends ES2 loosing oil from the inlet cam bush. I removed the bush and soldered up the oil grooves, also peened over the outer end of the bush slightly and ran a 5/8reamer with tapered end through until the peened area was just a light dragging fit on the cam spindle. Also fitted an O ring on the oil pump feed as the fibre washer here was old and hard. Reassembled and tried to start the engine with no sucess then found the mag was full of oil so gave it a blow out with an air line and eventually got it running. I left off the mag chain cover and after a couple of minutes oil was dripping from the cam bush. GRRRR! My friend stripped the timing side again and measured the cam spindle for wear, 1 to 2 thou along the length so not excessive, he then made up a new bronze bush of very accurate fit and reassembled everything again only to have the threaded end of the cam spindle shear off as he tightend the nut! It appears to have been over hardend looking at the grainy area of the break. He's not happy. We raided our mutual spares and found an inlet camshaft with an oil return scroll on the spindle but of a slightly different cam form, it appears to have a quietning ramp on the opposite side of the cam to the one we removed, He's worried about this, but the cam is now in the engine with the new bush and we will be trying it again once the mag has been stripped and properly cleaned. We have tried running the engine both with and without the breather valve fitted and it seems to make no difference to the problem. If the leak persists Ill try ringing Mr P on Monday and see if he has any ideas. The engine has excellent compression, much better than my ES2 so I dont think is a ring blow by issue, any more theories most welcme please.

Thanks

Tony

Submitted by david_cooper on Sun, 12/06/2016

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Franks's book suggests 'partial blockage in oil return' for 'oil leakage from crankcase breather and other places'. It sounds like 'other places' applies in your case. Does the crank case have more than 'approximately a small teacupful' in it after a run? If so, he says "suspect a blockage in the oil-hole from the sump to the pump". Whatever is going on there is something faulty or wrongly assembled and the design itself should not need to be altered in the ways you describe.Good luck!Regards David.

Submitted by boo_cock on Sun, 12/06/2016

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Just a shot in the dark here. Does the crank case breather work properly? It's the pipe on the left main bearing boss and should, I think have a check valve inside it. It's a long time since I looked at mine. If this is blocked then you will get too much crank case pressure. It's an easy one to see and sort, so give it a go. Take it off completely and see what happens.

A mate of mine did a good remedy on his ES2 by boring out and fitting a seal into the inner case and running a belt drive to the mag. No leaks and no lube needed.

You could do it without the belt kit and lube the chain yourself.

Details of this job were in the Roadholder a few years back. by Paul Jelbert.

Submitted by anthony_williams on Sun, 12/06/2016

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Previously boo_cock wrote:

Just a shot in the dark here. Does the crank case breather work properly? It's the pipe on the left main bearing boss and should, I think have a check valve inside it. It's a long time since I looked at mine. If this is blocked then you will get too much crank case pressure. It's an easy one to see and sort, so give it a go. Take it off completely and see what happens.

A mate of mine did a good remedy on his ES2 by boring out and fitting a seal into the inner case and running a belt drive to the mag. No leaks and no lube needed.

You could do it without the belt kit and lube the chain yourself.

Details of this job were in the Roadholder a few years back. by Paul Jelbert.

i would check the valve as boo said.

there is a ball bearing in there i removed mine to aid breathing and it helped. tony.

Submitted by anthony_leedal on Sun, 12/06/2016

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David

Thanks for your reply, this is an interesting possibility, however the engine has very recently been dismantled to investigate a horrific noise from the bottom end which turned out to be the crank pin loose in the flywheels and a badly worn big end. Everything was washed out and cleaned prior to reassembly with some undamaged flywheels and a new big end so I don't think there will be any blockage here. I will drain the crankcase and check the amount of oil. Prehaps a restriction in the return oil pipe itself or the oil tank union could be the reason. I must agree that the steps we have taken are verging on the desperate and my feeling all along has been that there is some other underlying cause for the trouble.

Best Wishes

Tony

Submitted by barry_carson on Mon, 13/06/2016

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Hello Anthony .it makes you wonder if the oil pump body has sustained some damage. it may have a hairline crack in the body of the pump pumping the contents of the oil tank into the timing chest . check oil is returning to the oil tank and see if there are any blocked pipes ect. Baz

Submitted by paul_knapp on Mon, 13/06/2016

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Hi Anthony, my apparent single fix of soldering up the bush oil scrolls has not worked for you. So my full story as follows.

I had exactly the same problemofexcess oil in maggy chain cover after a total engine overhaul several years back. Also, I was experiencing copious amounts of oilflooding down the inlet valve guide. Evident by excessive smoke and very oily exhaust pipe. I had reamed the new guide a tad on the tight sideso it had very little valve stem clearance, so was not a suspect.

My initial investigation showed the crank case held 95Ml of oil after 15 minutesfrom stoppingafter a run. This was comparable with another nontroublesome engine, so the scavenged side of the pump was eliminated.

I removed the valves and found the inlet valveto be drenched in oil on the underside and around the shaft.

I soldered up the cam bush oil scroll, also I soldered up one oil hole in the rocker box oil line banjo bolt to reduce the oil around the valve gear. I had JP Engineering (piston makers) fit a set of theirrings to my new pistonto suit the rebored barrel. (the ones I had fitted were new Hepolite with chrome top ring, so were also a non suspect). I then checked the valve timing and found that a side valve cam had been fitted in the pastwhich was an apparentcheap mod to improve speed, but their timing marks are one tooth out for an O.H.V. engine cam wheel. I had initially lined up the marks on assembly, ( I had not checked the marks before removal) so was unaware that I was advancing the cam timing, soI retarded the cam timing by one tooth checkingwith a timing degree wheel. I then removed the crank case breather (which had performed with no problem over thousands of miles previous, so was no suspect) and made a double size one from some drilled out air line fittings and fitted that in place.

Upon start up, instant improvement, I had NO smoke filled shed, as wasbefore, and NO oil dripping from the magneto chain drain. On the road, the engine now pulls strongly from low revs and with no more remarks from following mates of the smoke trail I was leaving and no more oil pools beneath the drain when stopping.

I have since fitted the correct O.H.V. cam which has improved the torque a little more.

So, the exact remedyfor my oil problem, I don't know, but I believe it was down to high crank case pressure forcing the oil out of the cam bush and alsodown the inlet valveguide.There are four possibilities as above, but nothing stands out except the cam timing, but I can't get my head around that.......!

Paul.

 


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