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Monobloc float level effects on idle circuit - request for advice and experience...

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I've known my '67 650SS since my cousin bought it new - and I never recall it having anything other than the "finned" extended float chamber cover on the left side, in highly polished alloy - I've recently found from research that this may in fact be a John Tickle accessory, designed to prevent fuel stavation and surging when cornering fast, presumably acting as a sort of fuel "buffer" cache (but actually, I suspect,cafe racer bling of the type fashionable in the day!)

Now that I've taken the bike over and have resurrected it, Ifind that the tickover slows when leaned over or put on the side stand - this to me is a sign that the mixture richens somewhat when the bike is leaned over and the fuel level rises a tad.

When the carbs were re-sleeved and rebult,a viton tipped needle was fitted,which is afew thou.longer than the original all-brass one, so when fitted "as is" inthe seat assembly,it lowered the fuel level and leaned the idle mixture excessively....

I thereforere-set the float level with a manometer (connected to the pilot jet, with cap removed) and using shims to get the seat height right, as per the Amal manual which refers to a "pip" on the float chamber cover, which the text states is 1 5/16" from the chamber edge: this is what I set the manometer level to using shims

Having done this, the "lean over, slow down" is now a little less pronounced than when the viton needle was first installed and the seat assembly "unshimmed", but I still get the annoying richen-slow down when the bike's on the side stand or leaned over attraffic lights - but it does mean that the engine dies away when tilted over, if I set an idle speed of around 900rpm when "upright".

SoI have to compromise with whatI think is a slightly fast gallop when upright, but it's annoying (and doesn't make for smooth changes into first) - andI resent riding with what amounts to the equivalent of a mechanical pin-ball table "tilt" switch, albeit one that affects the bike only when stationary and ticking over.

I've just discovered in the various boxes of bits thatI do have a pair of what I think are Atlas monoblocs, right and left handed - so I may "borrow" the orignal Amal float chamber cover and run a test with this in place of the extended alloy one - but I'd like to retain that particular bit of bling if at all possible - if only because it's period bling that was, I suspect, fitted by the original dealer in Camberwell, who seems to have supplied the other parts found boxed up, including the Tickle rearsets, clip-ons and alloy headstock.

I'm alsolooking for some clear perspex type material thats fuel resistant - any ideas what to use that wont be fogged or attacked by the ethanol-rich fuel that the eco-fascists insist is now Hobson's sorry choice? Thereason is that I'd like to make a float chamber cover for my monobloc to set the float level accurately as the manometer is a pain in the proverbial to use.

So, has anyone else experienced this issue- and if so, am I on the right lines when I deduce a richer mixture with the bike leaned and the fuel level more toone side or other of the chamber - the effect's the same if I lean to the right or left by only a few degrees off vertical. In short (not my style, as you can plianly see!), what's the cure?

DA

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This is a design feature of the Monoblock and well known amongst Amal buffs. It has the same effect on my single cylinderMatchless G80, but I think your conclusion is flawed. Leaning the bike over actually doesn't change the float level. If you think about it closely, the pin carrrying the float sits on a line straight across the bike's longitudal axis. So leaning the bike over will not change the float height significantly, and if it does it will actally lift thefloat, closing the needle.But it may pullfuel away from the fuel feed tothe idle circuit, which is fed from the main jet block.I haven't quite figured out why this causes revs to drop, because less fuelmeans a leaner mixture, which again should lead toan increase in revs. Unless of coursethe fuel getsscarce enough to causeignition to fail... So many questions and so few answers.

In practical terms, on the Matchless I havea manual advancemagneto, which allows me to compensate, so solution: Fit manual advance magneto!

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I'm guessing the following:

Since you have the "finned" float bowl extension and said extension is on the left hand side of the carb and the sidestand is on the left hand side of the bike.......

That when you put the bike on the sidestand the fuel shifts away from the central pick-up point in the carb, cutting off the fuel supply.

Any other thoughts on this?

Mike

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Sound thinking Mike. I haven't been significantly troubled by this phenomenom but I have never used the float bowl extension. Of course, the answer is to see what happens with the extension replaced with a normal cover. Extensions were normally fitted to old monoblocs whose normal cover had distorted through overtightening the three screws and were getting difficult to seal. The finned extension didn't distort despite gorilla-style screw tightening. Gordon.

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Previously wrote:

Sound thinking Mike. I haven't been significantly troubled by this phenomenom but I have never used the float bowl extension. Of course, the answer is to see what happens with the extension replaced with a normal cover. Extensions were normally fitted to old monoblocs whose normal cover had distorted through overtightening the three screws and were getting difficult to seal. The finned extension didn't distort despite gorilla-style screw tightening. Gordon.

Thanks Gentlemen - I too would have thought that, on an incline to left or right, the fuel level is lower - and surely that ought to make it leaner (a tiny bit less"head" of fuel driving fuel to the pilot jet), and so speed up - but leaning to left or right makes it slow significantly - and my thought was that the real variation in fuel level relative to the pilot jet position (and hence "head" of fuel pressurising the flow through the pilot jet) is very small and should not have a significant effect: geometry of a lean at 30 degrees from the vertical would give at worst a couple of millimetre variation, I'd have thought.

The only other possibility that occurred to me today was that the float might somehow be binding against the cover (when leaned left/on the side stand) or against the inner side of the carb (when leaned right) and so allowing the fuel level to actually go up - that would tend towards richening the mixture and thus would slow the engine. I had noticed that the float has significant sideplay with the spacer tube fitted to the brass shaft.....

It's no more than a niggle, so I shant bother to adapt the good old K2F mag withthe centrifugal advance retardfor one with a manual adv/retard- but I'd love to find out whats causing the slowdown, if only for the sake of knowing it!

Since I've got a pair of ex-Atlas monoblocs I was about to sell, I'll borrow the orignal plain cover and fit it on Saturday morning in place of the bling extended one, and see what a bit more "empirical testing" reveals.

And I've just ordered some 3mmPETG clear sheet, so if that arrives before the weekend, I think I'll make me a clear cover and measure the actual levels when on the stand to see what the real difference is - plus I can then shim the fuel valve seat to the correct fuel level, as messing about with the manometer tube requires more hands than I've evolved so far!

DA

 


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