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Mk2 Conrods, Spray Holes and Oil Pumps

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Hello again.

More through luck than judgement I have acquired the major parts of a 1962 650ss engine, including the case, crank, pistons, camshaft (X2) barrels and head. I've also got a few of the timing side gears and pinions. I was actually just looking for a barrel but got very lucky.

The new 650ss barrel seems to be still in standard bore and shows very little wear. In fact all the components all look to be in really good order and have clearly been worked on previously so I'm going to use them as the basis for a 'new' engine. 

Lots of the 'minor' components are missing - valves, oil pumps, cam chains etc, and so the plan is to swap over bits from my existing engine over the winter. The aim is to get this 'new' engine in the bike so it can be used for 'making progress' and some fun road riding in 2026. The old engine will be cleaned out and will go into reserve. It's run well for the last few months but it had been sitting for 30 years and needs a bit of TLC.

At the moment I'm looking at my options and working out what I've got to do. 

The question of the moment revolves around the existing con-rods and the changes I'll need to make to run these. These are the later Mk 2 Conrods with oil spray holes. Service notes are clear that if using these then you have to use a 6 start gearing on the oil pump. 

My current oil pump is a 3 start item (see picture) so I'm assuming I'll need a new pump and that the three start won't work efficiently even if I change the gearing. I can't see the S which is supposed to be stamped on the upgraded version so assume my existing pump won't be up to the task even though it's working well at the moment. 

What else on the bike needs to be upgraded or changed now I have to use a 6 start pump?

I think I'll need plain rocker spindles - 06.7924 as recommended in the Service Notes. Won't I need to worry about crankcase breathing? Currently this is not a huge issue with my current set up. What other issues do I need to consider or prepare for? 

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the above. 

Cheers

 

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You have 2 options . option 1 ,  low pressure system where you have the parts. The engine was designed for this.  All you need to do is block the rod holes with the shells . Works OK if pump in good order, .pistons fitted with enough clearance ,drive side carb set to run with a size up in main jet.A 650 pump not a dommy one.  Valve gear oiling a bit borderline unless you change the return bias.   Option 2. fit a PAIR of 6 start gears and all the other bits including better oil rings . Commando Inlet guides with seals and better breathing ,check oil ways for size . As motor not designed for this expect to get extra oil flying around in timing area possibly into mag  and leaks from other areas ,possibly some sooty plugs and   occasional exhaust valve burning from too much oil . Or you may be lucky !. 

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Turn the shells around you say? Typical!

I was so careful to put this together the 'right' way. Was patting myself on the back too. Ho hum  

I might compromise with a new pump but keep it three start low pressure and do what you suggest to keep the con-rods as low pressure items. I'm a fan of the KISS principle. 

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Hello again Kit - Bob is quite right it saying that you have a few options.  Remember that,, as has been written in many Forum topics over the years, many of the modifications to the 650/750 oiling system complemented or corrected other changes.  Changing the oil pump, pump gearing,  oil distribution and oil scavenging holds many pitfalls.   The later engines in 1966/67 that saw the culmination of all the required changes were based on crankcases with more and larger oil circulation and scavenging galleries that are not included (nor possible in some cases) in your 1962  crankcases.  Fitting the stronger late con-rods is a good idea but as Bob points out the big-end shells may need inverting to block off the oil spray hole in the rods.  If you are going to swap to doubling the oil pump speed and continue to feed the rockers etc from the scavenge return to the oil tank you may need to fit the later twiflex type oil piston rings, or fit a restrictor in the rocker feed pipe.  You say that you are going to get an S-type pump.  It surprises me that neither of your 650 engines has this pump when they were fitted from new in 1961/62.  Let me also remind you that the original 650 engine ran flat-out in 500 mile races without needing changes to the oil system.  So your other consideration is obviously whether or not to feed the rockers with big-end pressure .......If you do so, as Bob points out too much oil in the wrong places can be problematic as many early Commando owners will testify.   I do not recommend going this route without late 650SS or Mercury crankcases.  Much is written in the DSNs and other Technical service directories and there is too much to reproduce it here but if you stick with the SS pump, 6 -start gearing, with twiflex rings and strong rods, with upside down shells you should never need another rebuild.  Good luck, Howard         

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I've spent a happy afternoon splitting the crank and reversing the shells to cover up the oil spray hole. I'm sure somewhere someone is probably spinning in their grave at my attempts at retro-engineering this engine - or keeping it as simple as possible anyway. 

This will be a three start engine so hopefully I can proceed as normal from this point onwards. Well as normal as my limited experience and engineering skill will allow anyway. 

Thanks all!

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The scary part of the above is the pistons. If they are original 650ss pistons then make sure you have the original 650ss pins to go with them. These will fit the rods you have perfectly, earlier pins would most probably fit giving a false sense of security but they will not have the clearance in the small end, there is a difference in pin diameter though a very small one it could lead to a seizure. 
 

The pistons are standard size Hepolite items. I'll look for some rings for them as part of the build but they look in very good nick. The pins are also the correct ones but thanks for the heads up. 

Standard size is not the issue, a 99 std piston is different to a std 650ss piston. The gudgeon pin is different. One pin is designed to run in a bushed small end the other is designed to run in a plain small end like the 750's and Commando. Some owners fit 99 pistons and get away with it if the tolerances and or wear is in their favour, but many don't and you'll get a cross piston seizure. 

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I certainly struggled trying to fit 99 pins into 650 pistons many years ago , and my current 650 project has stalled with suspected tight pistons making it very difficult to turn over . 

 



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