Lithium Batteries

I can't begin to answer your question Richard, but it's certainly a very valid point. I'm sure Mr Oz will be along in due course to educate us plebs! 

I use that:

Tecmate AccuMate TM06

Important: there must be no recovery programm for almost dead batteries !

Recovery programm: Current is delivered in pulses to prepare the battery to accept normal charge.

No problem since 10 years

with ALIANT X3P 12V 6,9Ah and Shido 5 Ah

But the charger is hardly used because of almost no power loss of the batteries.

I fitted Shorai lithium batteries to a Maxsym scooter and also an Enfield Electra X some years ago. I bought a Shorai charger for trickle charging which plugged in to a separate charging socket on the actual batteries. The batteries worked perfectly on both machines - I doubt that the charging system on the Enfield will have been anything very sophisticated thus a Norton fitted with a modern regulator/rectifier should be OK. The batteries are very lightweight but unless you have an electric starter I suggest that the considerable expense of buying them is not worth it - just my opinion of course ... .

Even have have not fitted the electric starter on my MK3, for me it makes sense.

Because:

The Batterie life is longer, the  lithium batteries I have are from 2013 and 2016 on my bikes

(Tiger 900 GT Pro and Norton Commando Mk3)

There is no power loss during wintertime.

I don`t need a batterie charger, because the RM23 single phase alternator is up to the job.

Of course modern "regulator/rectifier should be OK".

 just my opinion of course ... .

Richard

Occasional mains charging on my Shorai doesn't need the special charger, I use my old 1990s Optimate 3. Bike charging is perfect with 3 phase RM24 and Shindengen SH775 reg/rec.       

Agree with Marcel 100% adding they are much lighter and smaller, enabling a bigger version to be used for e start and touring accessories, iPad, camera charging etc.

Only downside is the high price and they need warming up in 0°c and below e starts but after spending a day cleaning off all the baked on road salt and corrosion from last winter, I won't be using my Commando in these conditions any more.

I have followed the comments regarding using lithium batteries but there has been little mention of the fire risk associated with these batteries.

I have two, one on a BSA Bantam D1 and the other on a Honda CB600F Hornet. Both are by Shido which is used by Honda on new machines. There is a clear indication on the batteries that they must not be subjected to a charge rate higher than 15 volts or they can explode or set on fire.

The Bantam usually charges up to 13.5 volts but the Honda can go as high as 15.5 volts so I must always have the headlight on when on a run to keep the charge rate at about 14.7 volts. No doubt the new Hondas have a suitable lower maximum charge rate.

For charging I bought a Nocco Genius G1100 which will charge 6 or 12 volt Lead Acid and 12 volt Lithium batteries with dedicated programmes.

The performance of the Lithium battery on the CB600F is outstanding compared with a nearly new Yuasa lead acid which usually went flat after 4/5 attempts at starting after a two month lay off. Last Christmas the Lithium started it after three presses of the starter button on a frosty day with a four month lay off. Not bad for a battery one third the size and weight of a top lead acid but twice the cost. Apparently, its life may be four times as long but that remains to be seen.

Anyway, if this is so, how will the lithium battery behave when powered by the ac stators in all our bikes? 

NO! Our bikes (all big British bikes) are NOT POWERD by ac stators. In ALL cases the AC is converted to DC to charge the battery and operate the bike. The traditional system was a rectifier and Zener diode to stop excessive voltage (14.2) As the Zener is no longer made, we have to use the regulator/Rectifier. This gives a more stable DC voltage. In most cases if you buy a battery for 'automotive' usage The supplier of said battery MUST know what this means as regarding the battery charging that is fitted to the bike. IF you are sold a battery that ends up being 'overcharged'  then perhaps there is a case of the battery as supplied is 'not fit for purpose'. Another way to look at these potential problems is to become your own expert. Ask and understand the details of the battery from the maker/supplier do not just follow 'here say' from casual Forums-the internet, etc.

John

I believe a lot of the fires you mention are with lithium ion batteries not the lithium iron or LiFePo ones like Shorai etc. Apparently LiFePo have a lower energy density than the ion type so not as suitable for EV use. I've heard of some alarming high end EV car fires recently from people I know but the media appears to play these down for obvious reasons. Maybe why Teslar are transitioning to the LiFePo type.

My bike voltmeter shows the RM24 and Shindengen reg rec charge at around 14v the same as my previous 3 phase Lucas TPR200W reg rec used for the RM24. I also fitted a 5mm Monsoon LED battery condition monitor into the voltmeter as an additional check. Works well with the 9 year old Shorai, better than the Yuasa AGM which never shows the green on startup like the Shorai, only orange probably due to the lower standing voltage. The instructions mention green as ideal.

The cutting edge of lightweight rechargeable batteries are those used on our Airbus Zephyr high altitude UAV project but I can't say more than that. Interestingly most of the connections are soldered and sealed with adhesive heat shrink, for reliability and weight savings, same as I've always use on my bike wiring. No crappy bullet connectors here…

Surprisingly there is so much difference in the above, but correct at one point or another in history. Early lithium batteries needed special chargers, certain charge voltage etc, and careful use but modern versions are more tolerant, some (most) now have decent protection circuitry only, some (the latest two that are suitable for commercial Aviation use and motorcycle use) have built in individual cell charging management and comprehensive protection circuits for each cell. These two batteries only need a certain voltage range to charge them and not a special charger, the cell management does the rest. They are provided in a few sizes that fit the MK3.

Charging, from experience the 3 phase stator is in my opinion something that is really not needed. I use the RM23 on my MK3 and 14 amp battery, with regulation and rectification controlled by Mosfet unit from TriSpark. Using the BSM as an indication of battery voltage, if I start the bike on the electric start and let the bike tick over within a minute or so the BSM indicates green. I also get just under 14.4V at tickover, which clearly indicates the single phase RM23 and decent rectification is more than capable for charging our Nortons. Also, the latest wassell 3 phase stator will not fit inside the MK3 primary.