Ignition timing worries

I would run 12v direct from the battery to the 'black' box and replace the wiring to the pickup as well, making sure that they are connected the correct way round.

Is the ignition advancing with revs ?

Was it all running OK before ? How long ago ?

I had the same problem with my 650SS. The first time I rebuilt the engine a few years after I purchased the bike,I set it up meticulously as per Mick Hemming's video. It was massively retarded! After a lot of experimenting I settled on an advance of 53 degrees, it has ran happily on that setting for the last 10 years. At the time I contactedBoyer and their response was basically " If it's running well, don't worry!" I'm no electronics expert so I can only assume that the "brain" is somehow slow, (we're talking milli-seconds) and the "trigger" has to be advanced to compensate.

If everything else is in order then I think that I would try an alternative ignition. Can you borrow someone's old spec spare Boyer or something ?

I've got a couple but I'm in Belgium...

I just had a similar problem, check my thread if you want.

But basically i had to turn the magnets to around somewhere between 10/4 o'clock and make sure the anticlockwise timing holes on the plate lined up to the white dot on the magnet before it ran a little smoother, then it was lots of fiddling and small adjustments until i can hear the bike sounded ok.

The strobe was used throughout the process as much as i can while working alone, But finally got it to time at 5k 31 degrees when i had someone help rev and hold the bike.

I contacted Boyer as well, super helpful, but they insisted i check my wires, which was all fine. The other thing they said was to make sure battery and fuses are not bouncing or loose due to bike vibration. This can also cause kick back misfire etc.

I'm a complete newbie to Norton, so my info might not be as useful as others.

Hope it helps.

Previously mike_chizlett wrote:

Advanced apologies for perhaps going over old ground but I have just fitted a Boyer micro digital ignition system that I've had for ages to my 1969 750 Commando.

Having set it up as per the instructions (31 degrees BTDC) the bike eventually started but ran rough as if the choke was on.

The engine running improved as the stator was rotated clockwise to a point where I couldnât turn it any more.

I havenât altered the position of the rotor to see if any further adjustment of the stator would continue to improve things but estimate that at present the timing is set at about 45 degrees BTDC.

I have yet to hook up a strobe

I was expecting to make a minor adjustment but not this much.

This doesnât seem right hence my request for any comments or advice as to how best to proceed.

Thanks

Check everything with a degree disc and get Boyer to check the ignition including the strength of the magnets as you have had the unit some time before using it

The problem with the analog boyer is variances with in the tolerances of the components, I just swapped the box only once and turned a pipe blue in 30 secs the timing was so different from the installed box. Thats why you must always strobe, but surprised the digital one is also affected, maybe its the distance between the magnets and the pickup, if so it means the timing will slowly change as the magnets lose their magnetism.

Previously ady_strowger wrote:

Previously mike_chizlett wrote:

Advanced apologies for perhaps going over old ground but I have just fitted a Boyer micro digital ignition system that I've had for ages to my 1969 750 Commando.

Having set it up as per the instructions (31 degrees BTDC) the bike eventually started but ran rough as if the choke was on.

The engine running improved as the stator was rotated clockwise to a point where I couldnât turn it any more.

I havenât altered the position of the rotor to see if any further adjustment of the stator would continue to improve things but estimate that at present the timing is set at about 45 degrees BTDC.

I have yet to hook up a strobe

I was expecting to make a minor adjustment but not this much.

This doesnât seem right hence my request for any comments or advice as to how best to proceed.

Thanks

Check everything with a degree disc and get Boyer to check the ignition including the strength of the magnets as you have had the unit some time before using it

One other thing check the capacity of your battery I know these updated boyer ignition are not affected in the same way as the mk 3 I use but they still all rely on a heathy battery unless your using a power box

I had my Commando for years before I eventually checked the accuracy of the timing marks in the primary chain case - they were miles out! So yes, as already suggested, might be worth getting a proper timing disc to see if the bike's timing marks you are using are actually what they're supposed to be.

Hello I hope you do not mind me saying something is all wrong here, for a start off you should have the all the rocker covers off and start with drive side timing so the rockers have both valves in closed position on the left-hand side or drive side and piston at top dead centre, before any timing is carried out and the commandos are usually timed at 29 degrees before top dead center and has the timing runs off the end of the camshaft it's then runs anti-clockwise So the timing for the left hand side has to be set up on the right hand side timing device and taking in the fact of the timing then turns anti -clockwise and there for should timed anti-clockwise for the drive side cylinder first the rotate 360 degrees for the right-hand cylinder has a single cylinder four strokeengine fires once every 720 degrees and a twin ever 360 degrees lefthand first then the right OK yours Anna J

Anna, boyers and most of the other EI are wasted spark, both plugs fire together so no need to worry which side will fire when.

I can confirm it is a wasted spark.

Also no need to take the rocker covers off:

To determine the compression stroke simply take out the nearside spark plug, block the hole with your finger, turn the engine clockwise and you will feel the compression easily as the piston rises on the compression stroke. (both valves will be closed)

After the basic setting you must set the timing accurately with a strobe.

This is one of the tricks i learnt from my recent experience with the Boyer. Works a treat.

Previously richard_evans wrote:

I can confirm it is a wasted spark.

Also no need to take the rocker covers off:

To determine the compression stroke simply take out the nearside spark plug, block the hole with your finger, turn the engine clockwise and you will feel the compression easily as the piston rises on the compression stroke. (both valves will be closed)

After the basic setting you must set the timing accurately with a strobe.

I'm not sure where you guys are measuring the advance but figures of 45 and 53 degrees before TDC would be almost impossible to start without lots of kickbacks. If it started at all, running would be rough, the engine would be struggling to compress an expanding charge to get it past TDC

Anna, boyers and most of the other EI are wasted spark, both plugs fire together so no need to worry which side will fire when.

I had a strange situation when I replaced the two wires on the Boyer stator with a couple of single strand copper wires to a chocolate block type connector to try and reduce the tendency to break the original wires. With this setup the timing was impossible to set reliably with or without a strobe. Changing back to conventional wires from the stator eliminated the problem.

I recently had problems setting up the ignition timing with Boyer electronic ignition for first time. Checked and rechecked it but no start. Eventually discovered that a number of the Boyer units had been found to have a manufacturing fault and the magnets were 180 degrees out. Corrected this and it started immediately. Absolutely true.