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High tick over

I just took delivery of my 961 and after riding it for 30 miles or so I noticed that the revs did not drop below 2,000 RPM going through a very slow village.  I rode it hoe which was another 30 miles and once back in my driveway the revs were around 2,200 at tick over.  I reported this to Norton and left it overnight to cool down completely, started it up from cold and it ticked over at 1,500 RPM. This seems far from normal to me and my 50 year old 850 Mk 2A ticks over much more nicely than the brand new 961. Any ideas on why and how to sort this out welcome. Thanks.
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Could it be that the engine was a bit tight somewhere and now its  getting looser it needs resetting?. As its under warranty I would get the supplier to check.  One of the reasons i ride a simple old clunker is that there is very little i dont understand or cant fix. I am buying a code reader for my van so i can monitor its workings and not need to rely on main dealers. In a recent discussion with a Renault dealership I mentioned that i have worked on my own cars/vans for  60 years , they then asked ME if i knew  of any inherant  problems with  my van ?. Turns out they are new to the business !. .The van is 6 years old.  I had a similar surprise with a Honda car dealership who reluctantly admitted they had never stripped an engine. Learn all you can !!.
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Norton should be picking this up from you, sorting and delivering back. You've paid a lot of money for a new motorcycle, that is advertised as being fully re-engineered......so don't touch a thing, and let them sort it out under warranty.
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I agree with Stuart, a premium bike at a premium price, you should expect premium service. Their response was not correct, they should have said that they will collect as soon as possible and remedy it.  No main dealer strips engines these days, I know a workshop manager at a big name motorcycle main dealer and the engines are replaced one for one and the old engine hammered to destruction. 

Hi Stuart, I am waiting to hear back from their sales manager who said he will speak with his technical department.  Let's see what I hear back from Norton.  I'm booked on the national rally this weekend so hoping to go their (only 10 miles for me) on my 961.
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So if needed get them to change the engine and scrap the old.  Ok if they are paying the bill. The Honda just needed a new B/e shell , but got a £4k engine instead ,( that failed in a week).The 2nd engine never got run in as they forgot to refill the Auto box , and denied responsibility ,  Scrap car. Should have changed the shell myself. Lesson learned.

It'll probably just be something simple like a sticking IACV, or an air leak somewhere. But, its under warranty, so just hand it back to them. The after sales support is where a garage gets to prove it's worth....so hopefully they exceed expectations. 

I contacted the sales manager on Sunday, I contacted the factory (supplier) on Monday, I have not had the courtesy of a call back. 

Obviously they don't check the NOC website otherwise they'd be doing something about this. 

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Prolly not! They don't want to be having to change the engine! Enough waiting, demand to speak with the CEO as a matter of urgency. They have had your hard earned dosh now they need to address your issues without further delay. The customer relations so far have been atrocious to say the least. Take the gloves off,  it's time to stir a positive reaction from these charlatans. 
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How long since the reported the problem to the sales manager ?

 

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Average bike, premium price and it seems like no warranty or support. The lack of response from Solihull is shocking. 
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" Obviously they don't check the NOC website otherwise they'd be doing something about this. "   ... Maybe a very public and Facebook campaign would make them sit up and do something ? That said maybe they are so used to their most appalling reputation any more bad publicity won't matter a jot.
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hello,   i had a revving up problem not bike but my car it would rev up on its own at junctions when pulling off. it would rev to about 3,000 revs . in the end i found it to be the intank electric fuel pump faultering not supplying fuel then suddenly a burst of fuel. replacing the pump cured that. then throttle pedal went faulty replaced that the guy said when i fit it. without the engine running press the throttle pedal fully to the floor then turn on ignition wait a couple of mins then off with ign again. just to help the ecu pick up its parameters. i think he said the ecu would learn this anyway. so perhaps the ecu on the bike is just in a type of learning mode at the moment. thats my theory and i am sticking to it. dont all laugh at once. barry
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This is a HI JACK, can Paul Griffiths please contact AL Osborn? RE rectifiers and Zener? Paul contacted , thanks for use of the post!
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A quick update. I called & spoke to Norton Service. A nice guy called Keith.  He was surprised that I'd submitted an online after sales form because he's the guy that should get them. Clearly he didn't.  He promised to call me back & did so. He them committed to picking my bike up tomorrow morning & then sorting the problem out. 

I realise that I'm an optimist but I believe him. 

***UPDATE*** Well, my optimism was unfounded & I didn't hear from Keith yesterday & so far, nothing this morning & the national rally starts today.  I have decided to ride the 961 as it is (with its high tick over once warm) & unless I do actually hear from Norton's Service Department I'll continue to ride the bike until it gets its first service at 500 miles.  It's far from ideal & I am very disappointed in Norton Motorcycles Ltd & now wishing I'd bought a different brand of bike.

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hello, shame that there is no help forthcoming,  you would have thought that the bike would have had all the pre delivery checks done. as a matter of safety.   barry

Really sorry to read of this....its a real shame that they struggle to get customer service right, which is the basis of building a loyal brand following.

Hi Stuart, I went to the NOC national rally yesterday.  A guy there pointed out that all of the other 961s had lambda sensors fitted, mine has blanks in the exhaust where they should be.  I'm no expert on these matters but I assume that the lambda sensors actually serve some purpose and perhaps help protect the catalytic converter or control the ECU that manages the fuel delivery?  Anyway, my fuel warning light came on after just 75 miles so I assume my bike is running far too rich.  

I'm not sure if I should continue to ride the bike as it may well be causing damage doing so.  Is it even legally allowed on the road without these sensors? cheers Jim

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Norton have written the lambdas out of the latest calibration file. Instead of running closed loop, they now rely on the tps, engine temp, ambient temp and map sensor for the fuel and ign tables. No, not a legal requirement of any sort....even more so with the current 961s being made road legal via the very relaxed MSVA regs. Has the selling dealer or Norton still not got back to you over this?

Which is very concerning as it suggests if they can't get the tick over parameters correct then I doubt the rest of the fuelling maps are correct through the rev range. Thankfully the bike above is running on the rich side and not the weak side which could cause damage and stalling when it could be dangerous. 

Hi Stuart, The guys at Norton either don't call back or are just not available if I call them.  As frustrating as the poorly running bike is it is even more frustrating dealing with Norton themselves. I've now done 153 miles and I know the bike is running very rich as I only managed 75 miles from a brimming tank to the fuel warning light coming on.  It still has a high tick over and it just isn't running properly. I have stopped riding it now in case this is harming the catalytic converter. If I don't get to speak with someone at Norton today and they don't give me the warm feeling that they can and will sort this out then I have until Friday to decide whether to reject the bike and get my money back.  It's a pretty sad affair altogether. Let's see if they can redeem themselves this week.
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I have an email from Norton saying they can't pick the 961 up until Thursday.  As Friday is the 14th day since delivery I'll not get a chance to ride it again within the 14 day rejection period so I have no choice really other than to reject it and get my money back. In the meantime I've told them they have until Friday to resolve this if they can otherwise I'm forced by their terms and conditions to reject it. Such a shame because it would be a lovely bike if it ran properly.
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As supporters of the brand through the years, the way Norton's handle these service issues continues to be disappointing, especially when in so many instances it is simply down to poor communication and an apparent lack of recognition of genuine customer concerns - all so easily rectified. Coincidentally, in the July Issue of Motorcycle Sport and Leisure there is a four page article on TVS - their history, raison d'etre, ethos etc which makes for a very interesting read. It also mentions that TVS stands for Trust, value and service - food for thought in the light of this thread !! 
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I find this post a little concerning.  There are many suggestions as to the cause yet what ever the issue is surly you go direct to the vendor. Satisfaction or return of goods. Discussions in here will not be productive or increase your service level from the vendor. If you bought it, it doesn't work; take it back!
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The 14 days is irrelevant, just keep a note of when you contacted them as this was before the 14 days expired. Despite all the money thrown at Solihull, both Solihull and TVS Motor are still not getting the basics right after such a long period now over 4 years.   Discussions here will be productive, though may not increase the level of service which seems at the moment non existent, it will for sure stop some members parting with their money to line the coffers at Solihull. Whether we like it or not, bikes are sold on the basis of race pedigree or word of mouth from others, ie good reviews, poor bikes don't last long in the market place. 

Hi Stuart, the bike was picked up yesterday morning by SCH Ltd (motorcycle courier division). Norton said SCH would get in touch before they arrived, not very helpful actually as I was out for most of the afternoon. So I looked up on Google for the phone number and called SCH who were very pleasant, arranged to pick the bike up before I would be going out, called me 30 minutes ahead of arriving as they were a bit early, and they have been an absolute pleasure to deal with. If I ever need to transport a bike I'd have no hesitation in calling on SCH and I'd recommend them to anyone based on my personal experience. Service matters and the contrast between Norton and SCH service is striking.
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I use Moto Movers for all my customers bikes. Once you find a transporter that you're happy with, stick with them.....much like barbers and dentists!

Hi Stuart, Norton have picked my bike up and tell me there was a faulty tick over solenoid.  I doubt they intend to fit lambda sensors if they have engineered these out of the latest production models probably to cut cost but I'd question the point then of leaving the catalytic converter in the exhaust system. Surely if they don't measure the oxygen ahead of the cat then the cat will eventually be damaged by this?  And if they are cutting cost because they don't need the latest Euro compliance then surely the cat costs more than the lambda sensors?

I'm struggling to understand the engineering here but I'd like to know enough to discuss the bike when Norton get back to me and tell me the engine is running well.  Should I ask them to fit lambda sensors in order to get a better performing engine or alternatively, to replace the cat with straight through pipes? Currently, I have rejected the bike as not fit for purpose within my 14 day acceptance period.  I can still decide to accept the bike if I choose to do so although I will expect a further 14 days from re delivery to prove to myself that it really does work properly.

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The lambdas sensors are not there to protect the cat. Lambda sensors are used to monitor fueling and adjust fuel trims to suit....but being narrowband sensors, they're a little crude anyhow. Removing them from the calibration and using just the map sensor etc is perfectly fine. One of my Ducati's running the Ducati performance ecu does just the same. To monitor the cats performance, they'd require pre and post cat lambda sensors....which they've never had. I can only imagine the reason for leaving the cats in was because those short silencers only just scrape through msva noise regs....either that or they had a shit load of them left over from Donington to use up haha. To put a decat in, they'd need to write a new calibration file. Again, I don't know why they don't offer that either. I can't speak on behalf of Norton, as we're not on talking terms....they picked up their ball in a huff and refuse to play with me....so I can only assume. The lambda sensors cost them bugger all, so I doubt it'll be a cost cutting venture....it'll be more in the pursuit of a smoother running engine, when trying to make a 1ltr 270° parallel twin on a crap throttle body design smooth that is. And yes, their diagnosis to you is what sounds most probable...as I said a while back about it probably being a sticking IACV....idle air control valve. I've replace many over the years. No doubt they've improved on the old ones, but you can still get the odd fault. A faulty component is one thing, can't be helped....I had a Bosch relay fail on a customers bike recently, one that I fitted last year. I sent him two out 1st class, free of charge, so he has a spare to put his mind at ease....even though that's the first to fail on me in nearly four years. The problem with your experience is not so much the bikes actual fault, but the drawn out and seemingly disinterest shown to you....in my opinon at least.
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Well, Norton tell me they have fixed the bike and it ticks over as it should now.  The problem was a defective idle air control valve and this has been replaced.  I am due to get the bike re-delivered on Wednesday so will be doing my own test rides over the two weeks after that as I have a further 145 days to accept/reject the bike once re-delivered.  Hopefully, it will work well and I'll be happy to accept it.

 


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