George Osborne like the 961

Michael, beware of political gestures!

The 1975 support for the MeridenCo-op by Tony Benn was called in by those awfully nice people in the Conservative party in 1983.

If you want me to continue on this one it should be in the off topic zone.

Think of this as short term policy on shaky ground!

Do you mean as in a Greek-style bail-out?

According to the Leicester Mercury the investment is £8 Million. Great news for Norton and potentially very good news for future customers.

However, it will be interesting to see whether the 961 remains part of the future.

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Michael, beware of political gestures!

The 1975 support for the MeridenCo-op by Tony Benn was called in by those awfully nice people in the Conservative party in 1983.

If you want me to continue on this one it should be in the off topic zone.

Think of this as short term policy on shaky ground!

Hopefully......with all the pennies from Mr Osbornes cash injection, the prices will drop to nearer those of a new Triumph Bonnie. Then I might be tempted to buy one.

The price of what Phill?

In terms of percentage of bikes for sale against bikes built, the 961's on ebay heavily outweigh Commandos. Once they were as rare as hen's teeth on ebay. Now they are almost a common place.

It looks to me as though second hand values of the 961 are falling whereas the prices asked and apparently being paid for Commandos are rising sharply.

How long before the price of a second hand Commando overtakes that of a 961?

I suspect that R & D at Norton will probably look at the modular approach that Hinckley Triumphused based around a more reliable and powerful four- and that the 961 may soon be confined to history as a result.

Whether that happens - and where 961 owners and dealers with 961 stockwill stand if it does - remains to be seen.

I really hope the new investment in Norton succeeds, because I would love to buy a new Norton.

But I want performance and I want relaibility - is that too much to ask?

Time will tell....

Hmm, remember British Leyland? Britain now produces more cars than ever, but, for foreign owned companies. Like the former public owned utilities, all now make a profit for overseas investors.

The key word is profit. In order to make one you have to supply what the market wants, sustainably, efficiently and at a price the market will support.

I would have thought £15K waa probably not sustainable for a luxury item with modest performance and apparenly vairable reliabilty.

So I really hope the new investment produces a bike with good performance and reliablity at a reasonable price.

A four-cylinder Norton on the way ? This might be a good moment to buy oil company shares.

Previously charles_scouller wrote:

The price of what Phill?

In terms of percentage of bikes for sale against bikes built, the 961's on ebay heavily outweigh Commandos. Once they were as rare as hen's teeth on ebay. Now they are almost a common place.

Factually, this is entirely untrue. There are 4 x 961's on ebay at the moment. There are 20 Commando's. Which makes this post a nonsense. Charles, go and test ride one, because you know not of what you speak. You compare a hand-built street bike with mass-produced soul-less Japanese bikes, with lots of 'rwbhp' which appears to be the only criteria you use for judging a bike, apart from oil consumption. High oil consumption on the 961 has only applied to a few, which had a fault, and have been rectified. This has been made clear repeatedly on here. Yet you persist in going over the same old ground. Such continually negative posts are pointless, particularly with no actual experience of the machine. You only hear from the owners who have had an issue, rarely, although sometimes, from those who do not, because they are out riding and enjoying them, perhaps?

Hondas have had big recalls with soft cams; Suzuki with breaking frames at the headstock; also, on their TL1000's, a duff design of rear shock which killed several riders by causing uncontrollable tank-slappers; BMW with breaking gearboxes; shall I go on? Mass-production is no guarantee of no faults.

The Norton is a hand-built low-volume motorcycle, which only the blinkered will attempt to compare with a mass-produced motorcycle; even a Triumph.

Let us stick to facts and objectivity here.

Rant over...

Happy to stick to the facts.

This morning I found 18 Commandos (out of approximately 50,000 built) on ebay in this country.

I also found adverts for 7 961's (out of how many built - a few hundred?)

So which is the higher ratio Ian?

No thanks, the reliablityreports killed my interest.

Point taken about iinlcuding a new bike advertisement inadvertantly - but actually I count sixed used 961's on ebay in this country.............

I was under the impression you COULD buy a new Commando, hand built, to a trusted and, mainly, reliable design.

I think Norman White will still make them to order.

Previously charles_scouller wrote:

I think Norman White will still make them to order.

He rebuilds Commandos, but then that is what the others were. Saw half a dozen, all with secondhand major components. Or ask Norman White about the last one he had to rebuild "from new"...

Have a look at Norman's website Joe.

Whether there are 4, or 6 used 961's for sale, it is a massive and unreliable assumption to make that they are all for sale because the owners are a) fed up with issues b) fed up with poor customer service or c) fed up with insufficient rwbhp...... I have rarely sold a bike for any of those reasons, but simply because it is time to move on; done that, try something else. A true story... a friend bought one, having been captivated by the looks, the idea, whatever, but did not test ride one. Once he got it, he found that, for him, it had, guess what? Too much rwbhp, Charles. The brakes were too sharp, the power was too much for him, in fact all the things which many people would like about it, was not for him. Having been used to original old Nortons, this was not what he expected. He wanted a plodder. No criticism of the bike, it just didn't suit him. A mutual friendis buying it.There are lots of reasons why people sell bikes, and all this negative scaremongering is uncalled for. Let us not forget, there are two sides to every story, and we only ever hear one side on this forum.

Apart from the fact that I'm not a great fan of retro / pastiche, so the lines of the 961 don't appeal, the worst thing to me is that they sound like a CX500 with a misfire.

Most owners seem to rate the machine based on how many onlookers surround it when they stop...and they're soooo touchy. Quite frankly until many of them stop expecting owners of older Nortons to bow or curtsey when they appear on them, I suspect the ill-temper will continue.

Actually, I regard the 961 completely objectively. I'm delighted for those who own then and like them- why shouldn't they?

While I personally would prefer one with a bit more power, what really puts me off is reading about some of the relaibilty problems reported on the club website.

I wish Norton well and I very much hope they can produce more new models with more power and improved reliability.

Previously richard_payne wrote:

Quite frankly until many of them stop expecting owners of older Nortons to bow or curtsey when they appear on them, I suspect the ill-temper will continue.

Not the owners of my acquaintance Richard; far from it; but I know what you mean.. I have noticed a bit of that going on at bike meets! I don't own one, btw, just 2 older Nortons.....

I am glad we are agreed we wish Norton well!

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Michael, beware of political gestures!

The 1975 support for the MeridenCo-op by Tony Benn was called in by those awfully nice people in the Conservative party in 1983.

If you want me to continue on this one it should be in the off topic zone.

Think of this as short term policy on shaky ground!

I think your memory is playing tricks on you! As I recall the 'Nice People' in the conservative party did indeed give support to NVT as BSA/ Triumph were in financial difficulty, Norton were supported in a take over/merger.

But it was Eric Varley of Labour who withdrew support and called for NVT to pay back the millions that had been granted to them as support. This resulted in NVT being insolvent, check him out on Wikipedia he is also partly to blame for parts of the car industry going downhill.

Roger

Previously michael_jobson wrote:

Well our very own AJD seems to dislike Stuart Garners business, but the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that nice Mr Osborne semms taken by SG and Norton Motors.

He has announced today a £4 million facility to help Suart to develop and expand the Norton business. I guess somebody likes the Norton image and their plans. Well done the Chancellor.

Hello In answer to this Its Not Stuart Garner or his Business I dislike , you have its bit wrong, Its his insain Ideas I do not like, He has not done any Engine Bench testing On the 961 from day one, and there has been no bench testing on the relavent motorcycle Parts Has well , you all Need to read Bikerglory and also read down and see the bit Brain Chricton put down on there that makes this more interesting then you See what I meen Has I agree with Brian on all his point of veiue,And there been some top engineers that has Gutted this machine and found a number of things that are questionable and the Quality of them has well not that great has well , so there are some major issus with this motorcycles, and he not helping every owner for some reson some are get good help and some are not , why, and why is engines being taken apart, when they did not go in the workshop for this reason , I am only on the side of the owners that have pick up the peaces , at there cost, witch this should not happen , even that the machine has the Norton Name on the tank Or Not, I have loved the Name Of Norton for many years But to me its Clearly Not in the right hands yet, And more cash from the pubic meens that Norton is not in good finacal hands and Norton its Now owned By the public tax payer . More Pie in the sky thinking and a wast of Cash!! Yours Anna J Dixon ,

After Reading the on line News from Yahoo its says that Norton motorcycles Engineering academe will be looking the build New green motorcycles ,with the Norton Name on the tank , does this mean what I think Electricly driven Motor cycles The last time I Asked Stuart Garner About A posseble Electric Motorcycles , His words were No we have no intentions of building Electric drive motorcycles , So does this mean He will have to heat his own words Now!!

yours anna j Dixon

Roger, I think you are mixing NVT in 75 (Eric Varley) and the Norman Tebbit withdrawal in 1983. Still got a good memory!!!!

Previously Chris Grimmett wrote:

Previously John Shorter wrote:

I was under the impression you COULD buy a new Commando, hand built, to a trusted and, mainly, reliable design.

Norvil no longer makes Commandos. If anybody knows of somebody else making them, please let us know

Chris, I don't know where you have got the idea from that Norvil are no longer making Commandos because I regularly visit Norvil for parts, and always see several different brand new commandos being built with all brand new parts as well as rebuilds for all norton models. At my last visit (today) there were2 x88s, a 99 Dommi a 19S and an atlas cafe' racer all in the latter stages ofrestoration and 2 brand new MK 3 Commandos and also a MK 2 Commandowhich are part built. To sum up, just because one of the big suppliers doesn't make or hasn't got all the componants needed to produce a brand new Commando, it doesnt mean that all the major suppliers are in the same boat. I have seen a shelf at Norvil groaning under the weight of 20 brand spanking new crankshafts another with over 60 brand newCommando cylinder heads and at least 2 dozen pairs of crankcases. All these parts are made in England and not imported from the far East as is the case with some of the major suppliers. I can cattegorically say that Norvil are still making brand new Commandos.

Cheers Alan Clarke. Sec. Shenstone Branch

Alan,

Thanks for the update. I had been told by somebody who ought to know that no more orders were being taken, that the order book would then be fulfilled and that was it.

It's good to hear that after all, people can go out and buy a 'new' Commando or, it would seem, a Dominator.

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Roger, I think you are mixing NVT in 75 (Eric Varley) and the Norman Tebbit withdrawal in 1983. Still got a good memory!!!!

My memory is not as good as yours it seems, Neil.

Best regards

Roger

Dear Chris,

I didn't know that we are not going to build any more new Commandos and neither did Sue. Your contact seems to be more in touch with what Norvil are going to do than the two peoplewho own the company. After reading your comments we have now decided to build the models we want and then sell them rather than take bespoke orders and getting messed about by changes in specification during the build. We will not be building any more new Manx Nortons or Dominators because we are much too busy with our mail order business.We now have 7,940 new Genuine Norton parts for sale under our licence dated 12th January 2001 and nearly all parts we have manufactured are made locally.

Kindest Regards,

Les Emery

Les,

Thanks for clarifying that one; I have updated the Services listing accordingly.

In case my misinformant has spread the word more widely, why not drop a line to Mark Woodward for Roadholder reminding everybody about the new arrangments?

Previously leslie_emery wrote:

Dear Chris,

I didn't know that we are not going to build any more new Commandos and neither did Sue. Your contact seems to be more in touch with what Norvil are going to do than the two peoplewho own the company. After reading your comments we have now decided to build the models we want and then sell them rather than take bespoke orders and getting messed about by changes in specification during the build. We will not be building any more new Manx Nortons or Dominators because we are much too busy with our mail order business.We now have 7,940 new Genuine Norton parts for sale under our licence dated 12th January 2001 and nearly all parts we have manufactured are made locally.

Kindest Regards,

Les Emery

Yes I will under line this bit all part are made Locally around Birmingham and staffordshire area and made with british stainless steels to high qualty finish to the genuine Norton Patents and your money spent at Norvil then your cash will then go back into our economy and not some other economy your ajd

Previously charles_scouller wrote:

Actually, I regard the 961 completely objectively. I'm delighted for those who own then and like them- why shouldn't they?

While I personally would prefer one with a bit more power, what really puts me off is reading about some of the relaibilty problems reported on the club website.

I wish Norton well and I very much hope they can produce more new models with more power and improved reliability.

Hello well it would be just this with electric powered machnie, I would go for an AC Muliphase motor and charging by altenator built in the front wheel and a carbonfiber monocock frame with built in copper wire and linked up to a capasitor, drop down ito to a transformer so you get electric from around the machnie has we are all swimming in a sea of electricty link to a bank of high out put capasitors has capasitors are lighter in weight than batterys you also have a onboard computer too, And you can now get a T- shirt to power you I-phone or lab-top our Body has some 300 volt running though us and you cannot feel anything . Now just you take a look at The Nickoa Tesla Story . On You-tube and see How he was trying to give every one Free electircty , Now just think how far we could of been by now if we had just this, Technology is being Held Back and Were all being Dumded down, WHY Ask your self this one,

And I would go for a smart relaible fourstroke in a roadster frame with circa 100 RWBH, capable of an 11 second standing quarter.

Too much to ask?