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Fuel seeping from pilot air screws.

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Hi, I have twin 376 monobloc carburettors fitted to my 650SS that I bought from Burlen just over two years ago.

I have petrol seeping from both pilot air screws. I have removed the fibre washer under the float needle seating to lower the fuel level, but the problem persists.  I know the original monoblocs had no fibre washer under the float needle seating, but the new ones do.

Unlike concentric carbs where the fuel level can be adjusted, I cannot see a way of adjusting the fuel level on monoblocs other than removing some material on the carb body under the needle float seating.

I have used a piece of perspex in lieu of the float bowl cover to check that the level comes up to the pip mark on the cover.

I am running out of ideas. The bike runs well although it is a bit ‘lumpy’ on tickover.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

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The downdraught  carbs  have always put the idle system a bit too sensitive.  I have had 10 thou machined off the bottom of a spare needle assembly body  (as recommended by Anna!)  and in cases when the fuel level seems high tried it out. If that does not work try 20 thou. Before doing this check the floats are not fouling casting ribs  and the float and brass bush are not binding on the cover.( if so file the bush or fit a thicker gasket)

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A single concentric (930) , as per Mercury would solve your problems (280 main jet) What I did with mine and no leaks or starting issues. Like you though, a bit lumpy on tick over. But I do get reliability and over 70 mpg.   

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Another alternative  for  a performance boost would be to fit a remote matchbox float. This will provide an accurate  and adjustable fuel level  and eliminate the vibration frothing that can inhibit power at high revs. Made a considerable difference to the early Bonneville. Not much room with the Norton set up . 

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Is it right to assume fuel level is the problem here? I also have a new pair of monoblocs (from Burlen via Surrey Cycles) and not seen leaks from pilot jet screws. I think the slow running screw has an o ring, but the pilot doesn't, so the designer didn't expect a problem...and they must have mass produced hundreds if thousands of them, with inevitable variations.

Sometimes my carbs have leaked when standing still when fuel level slowly goes past the float needle and creeps up.  But it sorts itself out on the road.  The earlier carbs with metal to metal float needles are almost bound to leak a little if left with fuel on and engine off.

My bike came with twin 930 concentrics when I bought it in 2016. Since then, I have tried running it with a single 930 and it was fine. It did seem to have more low down grunt at the sacrifice of top end speed. It was more enjoyable to ride, less maintenance, but me being fussy, it didn’t look right.

Then I fitted twin monoblocs and the bike does have more poke.

The fuel seeps when left in the garage with the fuel turned off. I have recently fixed the leaking fuel tap.

When riding, there is no fuel seeping from the pilot air screws. I have tried replacing the stay up float with a brass one also. I will get there in the end and probably have ten thou taken off a spare needle valve seating and see if that works.

A single carb does lend itself to the Norton engine design with the inlet tracts being so close together.

I may just go back to single carb as there are many advantages; more useable, easier to start, more even tickover, less maintenance, lighter throttle etc

Also with the current fuel prices, perhaps that is the way to go if 70mpg is achieved.

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While I can agree about the less maintenance, lighter twistgrip etc, etc, I've often wondered where the  claims of better economy come from. If the carbs are set up properly, the engine will get the correct air-fuel mixture with one or two carbs, and arguably better prepared with one carb per cylinder. 

To get improved economy means  either less fuel being used per cycle, or a dramatic decrease in pumping loss friction. Why is either going to be dramatically different? I'm not too sure if the 'difference' in air speed over the jets is giving improved mixture preparation as a reason because our carbs have slides to keep that reasonably constant for a given speed/load.

So, is the economy effect because most owners have carbs set up way too rich at lower throttle openings or are owners simply riding slower?

Just wondering.

George 

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If you have brass float needles try swapping them for nylon which are lighter and easier for the floats to lift. The steep carb angle also makes for less leverage by the float action. Making the design less efficient.  I would keep trying with the twin mono carbs , They absolutely "make" the bike an SS  and are dead cool !.  And I want one.

I have tried using a nylon needle, but fuel still seeps from the pilot air screws. I am going to persevere with the twin monos for now and I agree they make the bike an SS.

It seeps fuel in the garage, it’s fine when running.

 

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By way of update, I checked the bike this morning and no fuel seeping from the pilot air screws!

The only changes I have made are renewing the cork in the ewarts fuel tap as it was leaking in the off position and fit a spare viton tip float needle I had in the garage.

Happy days. Thank you everyone for your input.

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Thats the sort of problem I expect to happen to my  289 side float carb. The taps HAVE to seal off otherwise the garage always smells of evaporating petrol. I found with monos the jet base nut often needs an extra tweek a few days after working on the bike , a hand passed under the base nuts often shows a seep is starting.Fibre washers are not what they were it seems.

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I used to have leaks from the main jet holders and I fitted dowty washers. I then thought perhaps they were too thick and they would affect the carburation (making it run richer) i.e. drawing the needle jet down from the needle,  so I bought some NOS fibre washers that sorted out the leaks.

Modern fibre washers never seemed to seal properly even with the main jet holder done up tight.

 


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