1959 99 something missing?

The psr8 switch and the mag don't normally go together but its not a problem.if you wire it up like the coil ignition bike you may finish up with a bit more current than needed ,but then you may wish to run with lights on plus winkers and an electric vest! Also the Mag may be a bit dud and you may choose to fit electronic ignition and 12v, Its all doable .The old alternator may be down on power anyway but it may work well enough with the mag. You will need a reg/rectifier if it has not got one. My old 99 is perfectly happy with the old alt.

Hello John....Yes, your engine should start without any electrics connected, just make sure the white wire (usually from the mag's end cover) is not earthing as this will short out the points. It is wired to thesmall button fitted onto the handlebars and is used to stop the engine.

You certainly don't need the battery installed to fire the engine up, and the alternator is OK without being connected up too.

As far as the alternator and rectifier....you just need the wiring diagram and you can get one if you look at the manuals available on my recent directive message about manual downloads. There are other ways to connect the alternator depending on whether you want modern electronic control or stick with the very same wiring scheme the bike was made with...this will also depend on what is left with the original wiring...You will have to decide what route you want to take..... let us know....Les

PS....If the bike has been left standing for years most of the oil which was in the tank is probably now in the sump (was the oil level right down?) It will be best to drain the sump and then the tank and half fill the tank with new oil...don't waste money filling the tank right up at this stage....The immense oil drag if you leave the oil in the sump will make starting difficult and could also damage the main oil seal or worse....Les

Its entirely possible that all you need to do is connect the alternator. Normally you would solder new bullet connectors to the wires from the rectifier and follow the diagram, You could use crimp connectors or even a nasty chock block from the diy shop!. you need a rectifier which normally lives under the tool tray , and may have been replaced with a more reliable solid state device. . Wires should come from the rectifier down to the bullet connectors,its possible that the rec has been replaced and not wired into the bike.More photos please.

Thanks Les,

The oil tank was empty and I have drained about 1.5 pints of old black oil from the sump.

The sump plug is also an oil strainer that needs to be dismantled and washed. It keeps the dirt on the inside of the element rather than the outside. Don't screw the plug back in loosely "just for now". You will regret it. Leave it either on the seat in a rag OR screwed back in and correctly tightened. Don't put it in your toolbox or on the bench "just for now". You will regret that also.

Best to change it.There are signs that the coating is peeling. They do not work well once that happens. Its pretty old anyway so better to get a modern one.

Probably best to get a new type of combined rectifier /regulator. And now you need to decide if you are going to switch to 12v , the bike is also likely to be positive earth.I would switch and run with daytime lights which may still supply enough watts to give the regulator a hard life.

Your bike already has suitable valve seats, so just run on best unleaded. The 99 is a nice machine, enjoy it.

John,

If you don't live in Scotland, Teesside area or Devon and Cornwall then I should run your bike (If it were me) on Esso Supreme Synergy RON 97 BS7800. This fuel is guaranteed to be free of Ethanol that will cause corrosion in your fuel system and attack your fuel hoses + more. You won't need to drain this fuel either while the bike is not being used!!!!!!!

I use RedX lead replacement as an additive but if you are not going to be riding it hard the you should be OK without. A table spoon per tank of racing Castor oil gives a nice aroma too and and will extend your grin!

Hello,

Your engine number is about 30 before mine. Probably built in the same batch due to Norton's production schedules. You should get the data for your bike from the Club Dating Officer. My bike is a 1961 99SS and left the factory in June 1961 and was fitted with the PRS8 ignition switch as 99SS models usually had coil ignition. My alternator has the standard three lead set up for a 6V system which connect to three wires from the rectifier using standard Lucas female/female insulated conectors.

regards

The new rectifier you show is fine but only rectifies A/C to D/c and does not regulate the charge to the battery.This may not be a big problem if the PSr8 is wired correctly as it will switch the alt coils in to relate to the load. Except it never did a good job of this if the bike was ridden fast and far.Also as you don't have an ignition load the battery will not be happy with the overcharging. This is why we fit a zener diode (in a heat sink) to dissapate the excess charge. If your alternator is down on power from old age then the zener may cope with the wattage . Some fit a modern combined rec/regulator and don't use a zener. I would carry a spare rectifier as they are cheap and can melt!The rec needs to be +earth type. Primary chain needs slack otherwise the clutch /gearchange action/bearings will suffer,I use up to an inch (too much some say!) and watch out for the tendancy for it to tighten under the pull from the rear chain.

Turn over the engine a few times and notice where the primary chain has its least slack. Now put pressure on the rear chain - a oily boot does the job - to tension it. Your primary chain should now haveabout 1/2" slack. Too much and it can clatter against the alternator mounting, too little and you can put undue pressure on the engine's main bearings.

As Ian suggests, check out your bikes details with Dave Catton, twin records. Dave is very helpful.

Hi John sorry for the tardy reply...I mucked my PC up and have been off air for a while or intermittently (still not fixed properly!)

Saw your rectifier...looks like an old Selenium rectifier...these aren't very good so wise to replace with the potted modern bridge rectifier...As far as coding generally all you have is one tag with a + or a red tag which is Positive OUT...The pairing of connections is diagonal...EG diagonally opposite the marked tag will be the Negative terminal and the two others remaining on the other two positions are the ACIN which obviously you can connect the alternator doesn't matter which way round.

You still have to decide on what system you are going to use to get the full wiring method...Can be

1) standard with switch control charging....

2)12V with Zener Diode voltage and chargingcontrol...

3) Full output from alternator to a modern electronic combined rectifier voltage/charge unit...

You have to decide to proceed.

Lesw

You could just connect it up and see what happens. In any case I would fit the largest battery that will comfortably fit,A lead acid one with removable cell caps and a breather pipe. These are cheap and have a better chance of coping with any excess charge,Run the breather well past silencers and away clear the of wheels. Acid and chrome don't mix!!.If the battery needs a lot of topping up then more charge control is on the to do list.

Sorry John, all Shell petrol has included ethanol since 2009.

My nearest Esso Synergy is 28 miles away, but thankfully I go that way to a meeting once a month and so I fill up the car and take a couple of plastic cans for the bikes. If I had to do a 56 mile round trip just to get fuel, essentially for the protection of the bikes, it might seem a waste, but I had the same situation when I picked up 4* Leaded near the same location when it was available.

As for your battery, when it comes to buying a new one, I have changed over to the maintenance free gel type. No acid leaks and they tend to hold their charge for longer.

Not that it's important but the engine seems to be (in part) 1961 or later. My own 1959 99 is from July 1959 and has the engine and frame No. P14 839XX. They were originally fiitted with an 18D2 distributor and coil ignition but I changed over to the K2F magneto, saved from my 1955 88, because the distributor/coil gave problems. The PRS8 switch didn't need much modification and I just had to fit a cutout button.

Does yours have different crankcase halves then? I didn't realise they marked numbers on both halves. Electrickery wise I've stuck with 6 volts for authenticity! Who drives at night anyway?

Good luck, Lionel

Previously john_hodgson wrote:

Hello, thanks for letting me join your forum..... I have just acquired a 1959 Norton which has been laid up for anumber ofyears.

I have started to take stock of the bike and sadly the engine number does not match the log book. The left number is 98004 14, and the right one is 99SS 7359.

The bike has a PRS8 ignition switch.

The Lucas 466177 alternator? has a lead with 3 cables finishing at a 3 connectors but not connected to anything. There are 3 cables coming from the rectifier area, also finishing inn a connector block, but not connected to anything. The type of connections do not allow these 2 leads to come together.

Is there something missing which these 2 sets of leads connect to?

Thanks in anticipation for any advice / suggestions.

John

Previously lionel_yexley wrote:

They were originally fiitted with an 18D2 distributor and coil ignition but I changed over to the K2F magneto, saved from my 1955 88, because the distributor/coil gave problems. The PRS8 switch didn't need much modification and I just had to fit a cutout button.

Hi Lionel

My 99 is from June 1959, I'm thinking of going down the magneto route and dispensing with the coil etc. Are there any issues on this conversion I should be wary of? thanks for any guidance. Barry.

The slight problem Barry is that I did that modification in 1965 so my memory isn't great for that sort of detail! Just disconnect the wiring to the distributor, insulate it and tuck it away somewhere. You need to do the same at the PRS8 switch inside the headlamp. If you were clever you might find a way to make the ignition switch work as a magneto cutout but it's easier to buy a cutout / horn button, mount it on the handlebars and connect the wire to the mag end cap. The magneto is a straight swap for the distributor I think. The mag flange fits into the 3 holes at the back of the timing chest. Don't know if you'll need different length bolts though.

The plug leads just connect to the magneto, but don't ask me which way round they go! Best not to use a resistor plug cap - at least to start with until it runs OK. It's normally the coil ignition that doesn't like resistor caps like Champion as they may not be blessed with a lot of volts. You'll obviously have to re-time the ignition. The owner's Handbook / Manual will cover that. Good luck.

Previously barry_robinson1 wrote:

Previously lionel_yexley wrote:

They were originally fiitted with an 18D2 distributor and coil ignition but I changed over to the K2F magneto, saved from my 1955 88, because the distributor/coil gave problems. The PRS8 switch didn't need much modification and I just had to fit a cutout button.

Hi Lionel

My 99 is from June 1959, I'm thinking of going down the magneto route and dispensing with the coil etc. Are there any issues on this conversion I should be wary of? thanks for any guidance. Barry.

Aren't you on the internet John? Ebay have them for £29.99 but you're probably better off with an AGM type. Paul Goff sells the Cyclons for £23.95 + £6.50 p&p for one or £47.90 + £9.95 for two. Just Google it like you do for anything.

Lionel

Previously john_hodgson wrote:

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Sorry John, all Shell petrol has included ethanol since 2009.

My nearest Esso Synergy is 28 miles away, but thankfully I go that way to a meeting once a month and so I fill up the car and take a couple of plastic cans for the bikes. If I had to do a 56 mile round trip just to get fuel, essentially for the protection of the bikes, it might seem a waste, but I had the same situation when I picked up 4* Leaded near the same location when it was available.

As for your battery, when it comes to buying a new one, I have changed over to the maintenance free gel type. No acid leaks and they tend to hold their charge for longer.

Neil,

I have found a closer Esso Garage.... Their best unleaded is called "Supreme". Is this another name for Synergy?

Also, I am struggling to find a 6volt gel type battery online.

John

If you fit a magneto (a good move) you should fit anextendedbottom nut from a BSA A7 or A10. This saves a lot of grief when fitting or removing the mag. Why Norton didn't fit this as standard is a puzzle, especially when the samedesigner was involved in both engines.

As for lights, I would go for a 12 volt system and use the lights in daylight as well as night (take note Lionel). Car drivers are not good at spotting unlit bikes. I had a real brown trousers moment last year riding an unlit bike when an oncoming driver (elderly, Volvo) overtook a pair of cyclists on a narrow road leaving me no option but to dirt track. A couple of years ago one of our club members was killed in a head on in similar circumstances. You have been warned.

Thank you Lionel and Gordon for your good advice. I've just ordered a magneto long bolt on Ebay before I forget!

The point about being seen during the day is well taken, I've fitted some high intensity day running lights to the badge bar on my CSR, cheap jobs from Hong Kong but effective. I want those school run mums to see me! Barry.

Deleted reply as I put it on the wrong message...Les

Amazed that Paul Goff suggests:

"Two batteries connected in paralell for 6V have a capacity of 10AH"......This is very NO NO!....

(BTW: I know parallel is spelled parallel)

Les

PS...a bit cheaper here:

http://www.allbatteries.co.uk/cyclon-battery-0809-0012-6v-5ah-amp3702.html

A company called Classic Dynamo Regulators Conversions are very helpful with all these problems, and their SIX volt LED head and tail bulbs transform the lights so you can ride in safety day and night without the hassle of 12 v conversion, sparing wiring, switchgear, and dynamo or alternator.

The Classic Dynamo LED bulbs are excellent for daylight use, very little current drawn. Great if you are just running off a battery. Not a well focused beam if you are riding at night though. My 1913 unlit Douglas also sports bicycle LED lights these days. The trousers are safe!