88 Sports Special years

Previously howard_robinson wrote:

Please stop putting incorrect information on this message board and it would be nicer to read if you used a less provocative way of making your point. I think that at times you do it to actually be controntational. Anyway the 88SS (and 99SS) Model was available in 1959 and probably in 1958. These 'Specials,' as they were referred to by Norton Staff, had the same cylinder head as the other 88 and 99 Dommies and kept the same compression ratio but had some degree of polishing in the inlet ports and a larger inlet valve (1.406 inches). The '59 head retained the 1 1/2 inch mounting-stud centres and 1 inch inlet port size so the twin-carb manifold was peculiar to those years. In 1960 the large inlet valve became standard and the head also gave a higher compression ratio of 8.2:1 . The vertical inlet manifold mounting stud cenrtres were increased to 1 5/8 inches and the splayed twin carb manifold was made to suit. On these models the inlet valve port on the 'Specials' was opened-up to 1 1/16 inches. These early 'Specials' retained the Daytona camshaft but also used the hollow-blown pushrods and all had magneto ignition. The 88 had a manual advance but the 99 used an automatic advance/retard unit. Crankcases on these early versions were as per Standard and De-Luxe models. Although on that subject I did have a 99 Deluxe from 1960 that had the big 650 type cases (R14 91464). Most of the information that I have included came from a dear friend Mr John Hudson who is sadly missed. Regards, Howard Robinson

Well We do know about Twin carburettor models they been around from 1954, you can get fittings for twin carburettors , But to have 88SS stamp marked on the back of a crankcase they did not come in until Early April 1961, and the First 650 was Number 18-93601, and they all went to the USA , so how do you get 650 crankcase before they were even built , by magic or something you can call your early bikes what you like but until they have the stamp marks there Not SS , And as for the Daytona Camshaft My 1954 Dominator as one of them fitted in, the 88ss Had the 650 Manxman Camshaft and crankcases and followers , and the Fat type push rods, and I have been a Norton owners and engineer for well over 40years , And 1959 models most were coil ignition, from standard , Yours Anna J

Previously phil_hannam wrote:

This is another of those threads where everybody is right but lack of accurate factory info, for the dates under discussion, causes all kinds of misunderstanding and interpretation of what happened in those days.

All the factory brochures from 1961 onwards refer to the twin carb models as Sports Specials. They do not call any of them SS machines. Before this date, bikes with twin carbs and other go faster bits were sold under the general banner of 'Clubmans' or 'Special'. Often the logbooks were marked to show this. Especially if some serious tuning by the factory had been done, as optional extras, for the new owner.

However, by 1967, this all changed and suddenly the 650 Sports Special became the 650SS. Worse followed as retrospectively, despite being out of production the other twin carb, previously Sports Special, bikes became known as the 88SS and the 99SS. Which caused all kinds of problems for people buying spares.

My records show that a number of twin carb model 88 bikes were around before 1961 but probably did not have the 650SS bulged crankcases. But they may have!!! The first registered 650 has engine number18- 93601 but Norton had spent a lot of time and money, from 1959 onwards trying to get the 650 engine to be reliable. AMC, the owners of Norton, had their 650 AJS/Matchless up and running by then. So there was considerable pressure on Norton to do the same. So development of the Norton 650 probably started in 1959. In which case there must have been lots of 650 parts around and we know a fair few were used in the later 88 and 99 specials. ie. crankcases, camshafts, pushrods etc.

So I would not be too surprised if someone showed me a pre 1961 model 88 with twin carbs, a 650 type crankcase and a logbook that mentioned special.

The 650 development did not take place until Joe Berliner was the USA solo distributer for Norton it was his design team that worked on the Manxman as it was Joe Berliner that give this machine its name, and Jay Be-Sachs was the designer and stylist and he had worked for Ducati before then , Yes There Were Twin Carburettor kits available from Norton or there dealers or any dealer like Pride&Clark for one, and high compression piston too, from Hepolte of bradford they copied BHB Covo pistons the Original piston fitted to Nortons other than that you had too make them your self Like my Great Uncle Freddie Dixon Did , He had a Swiss Machinist and engineer working for him, he made most of the racing parts for Freddie's Racing Riley's, My 1954 dominator had been sent to the USA for racing and had been modified over there , it had twin carbs on when I bought it and its had bass inlet manifolds made for it , I still have them , in my Amal parts book it say in 1955/56 some machines had twin Amal T15 GP carburettors fitted but It dose not say anything about the name sports Special, and then there is 1959/60 twin carb model's with twin Amal 376/219 carbs fitted but no mention of the sports special name any were, until engine number 122-96539 *88SS late march 1961. sent for export, So there you are , yours Anna J

Previously howard_robinson wrote:

Thanks Martin and Phil for your useful inputs. I should first like apologise for my spelling mistake in my previous message. Confrontational is what I meant to write - so at least I have had the opportunity to say it again. I have read through some notes I made in my discussions with JH on the early 'Sports Specials' (Eighty-eights and Ninety-nines). All of these bikes had the crankshaft-driven alternator and most were fitted with Siamesed exhaust pipe and a right-hand silencer. They could be specified with the twin silencer system but tests showed an increase in performance with the Siamese pipe. Almost all the bikes had an Avon GP rear tyre fitted and many had racing chains. Another option was to fit upside-down handlebars, racing brake linings and the rear-set footrest kit from the International. Apparently there were lots of these around the race-shops in the late fifties and early sixties. Different colours and chrome guards and chain-cases were other choices that could be made. Interestingly an 88SS was entered in the Thruxton 500 Mile race in June 1960, by Dennis Parkinson Ltd of Wakefield. I understand that it had twin GP carbs fitted. It was first in it's class (500 cc) ridden by Denis Greenfield and Fred Swift. So I think you must now agree that your original assertions were incomplete Ms Dixon. As Phil has confirmed your records only consider the bikes that were given an SS stamp on the crankcase. Obviously some 'shops' did not bother. The Norton factory of that period was small and selective............What a joy it must have been.

well My Father was his school mates and he worked for his dad,as a engineer , at Ings road Garage , Small world in it , yours Anna J

Previously John Shorter wrote:

Er. excuse me, but what was the point of the original post? Who wanted this information in the first place? Maybe one or two owners, not sure of the origin of their machines. The vast majority "could not care less". Why answer a question that no one has asked?

well its seams to me that the hole of Norton Owners club membership have this Do not care less attitude and I ask myself why have any of you bought a Norton motorcycle in the first place if you have No enthusiasm, for the machine , now the days of buying something just to ride have gone, as these motorcycles are now in the vintage status , and there well worth restoring back to factory specification, if you know what the factory specification is! , so then this question was to see if anyone knew anything about this subject , but its seams not, yours anna j

Previously paul_webb wrote:

Is the question: How many times has Manxman beenmentioned in a totallyun-associated answer?

Well then you be wrong on that score,

Have you not read what i put , the 88SS /99SS was built from parts from the 650 Manxman IE Crankcase all new, camshaft all new type high lift , flat type camfollowers and fat type push rods as the 650 would have, And the 650 Norton Manxman as its place in Norton history, And you or anyone cannot change that fact,

yours anna j

Previously john_mcnicoll wrote:

Previously paul_webb wrote:

Is the question: How many times has Manxman beenmentioned in a totallyun-associated answer?

Nothing new then!I try to ignore most of them.

well thats very good of you ! , you must like sticking your head in the sand then , yours anna j

Previously howard_robinson wrote:

Thanks Martin and Phil for your useful inputs. I should first like apologise for my spelling mistake in my previous message. Confrontational is what I meant to write - so at least I have had the opportunity to say it again. I have read through some notes I made in my discussions with JH on the early 'Sports Specials' (Eighty-eights and Ninety-nines). All of these bikes had the crankshaft-driven alternator and most were fitted with siamesed exhaust pipe and a right-hand silencer. They could be specified with the twin silencer system but tests showed an increase in performance with the siamese pipe. Almost all the bikes had an Avon GP rear tyre fitted and many had racing chains. Another option was to fit upside-down handlebars, racing brake linings and the rear-set footrest kit from the International. Apparently there were lots of these around the race-shops in the late fifties and early sixties. Different colours and chrome guards and chaincases were other choices that could be made. Interestingly an 88SS was entered in the Thruxton 500 Mile race in June 1960, by Dennis Parkinson Ltd of Wakefield. I understand that it had twin GP carbs fitted. It was first in it's class (500 cc) ridden by Denis Greenfield and Fred Swift. So I think you must now agree that your original assertions were incomplete Ms Dixon. As Phil has confirmed your records only consider the bikes that were given an SS stamp on the crankcase. Obviously some 'shops' did not bother. The Norton factory of that period was small and selective............What a joy it must have been.

well Dennis Parkinson machine was a standard 88 with twin T15GP's fitted and geared up, and camshaft and cam followers and push rod machine made by my late father were fitted to this machine , this is from my fathers notes he left me, as he was a good engineer , yours anna j