NEW Nortons

Sporty Spice, Adventure Spice (x2) and Ugly Spice!

I rather like the Atlas as a tourer - it looks as if it's begging to be loaded to the gunnels ready for some serious miles but in that role, I would like a bigger motor (perhaps 900cc?) to carry two at high cruising speed over long distances - perhaps the still to be released Nomad might fit the bill?. I'm unsure as to the new logo at present - give me time ... .

A very promising start I think.

As a Norton follower and owner of a few over the years I initially agreed with someone's use of the word ugly, but its appearance improves over 24 hours.

It reminds me of the new 1300 BMW GS Adventure with the big fuel tank faring, but Norton have made a clean design that is visually different to the others in this class. I now prefer its look to many others.

I always disliked new car body shapes appearing on an older model that I owned, but after a few months the new shape became preferable.

The change of logo is a sad loss but was it inevitable? Other manufacturers have kept their logos from the 1960s. Are they not losing their valued link to the past? Not sure that the new one is easy to read or recognise.

I really hope these are a success, and I think they all very pretty, but thinking back over the previous N years, how many Nortons were made with single seats? (apart from obvious racers).

Maybe it is an age thing, but part of the aim of having a bike when I was young was to be able to actually go somewhere, rather than just once around the block. Also possible take a young lady (or man, let's not be sexist), on the back.

None of those bikes look like you could squeeze your significant other onto the back. So these are just toys for people who want to pose.

The Atlas models look like they may have space for a passenger but they would have their knees up around their ears. And there is no obvious possibility of fitting any sort of luggage.

From today's MCN:
"A number of Manx V4 engine components and sub-asemblies will be produced at TVS facilities in India, before full bike assembly and testing occurs in Solihull.
Up until now, the facility has been used to build MSVA'd* Commando twins and the V4SV and CR models for UK customers, however the workforce has now increased by 25% to prepare for Manx production. Norton reckon there's the scale to build up to 8,000 bikes a year in England"

*Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval. The new bikes are fully homologated, which means they can now be sold globally.

Back in 1960 Norton introduced the new Bodystyled DL range of enclosed bodywork machines from 250 cc to 650cc   It did not really take off  because of the conservative attitude of the Buying public And the rise of small affordable cars . Lets hope this latest effort Kickstarts  a new chapter in the Norton saga . To have a chance the bikes will have to be competative in price as the market is currently  depressed . I would like to have seen a medium capacity  low seated model to appeal to the older Norton enthusiast who needs something practical and manageable to replace his classic  that only goes to  near events. Not sure about the grey suits .

Not a huge fan of the new designs, grey and bland ( and the Logo) I hope they grow on me enough to take the plunge when they prove themselves. The 1200 speed twin is one of triumphs consistent big sellers. My thoughts are that might have been a good avenue, water-cooled 961 but looking like an air cooled, but then I'm only a simple lad, what do I know, .
might buy myself a very cheap 961 when everyone hands them back when the PCP is up.
Good luck to Norton and hopefully I'm an outlier when it comes to the statistics 
Hopefully see some of you in Italia next year ( But we will be on Guzzis if that's allowed ) 
Gino 

Looking forward to seeing them in the flesh . Will do my best to clamber up on one , but its likely I will fall by the nearside.  I would hope that at least one  has a proper hairy  horse in the stable and not just  an excess of tempramental spirited ponies .  What use are racehorses now the track is limited to 70 mph? A decent flywheel would be appreciated. The popular Commando had plenty of pull.

If I were to go on looks (appearance) of any modern bike I think it unlikely that I would buy anything!  What I am far more interested in is what's "under the skin".
Has any decent technical stuff about these bikes been released yet?  If so anyone have a link?
What concerns me with these bikes is who designed them, was any of the technical team involved with the last incarnation(s) of the brand?  If that's the case I'll be staying well away from the brand.  If not, I'll give it a year or two then see what happens...
I hope TVS succeed in establishing their version of the brand, I can't imagine this happening over night so I'll be patient.

With regard to facts and figures, the V4 is an all-new 72° 1,200 cc V4 engine
   Semi-active Marzocchi suspension
   Brembo Hypure brakes
   Underbelly exhaust
   Single sided swing arm
  Carbon fibre body panels and wheels
 Advanced LED lighting
206 hp @ 11,500 rpm
130 Nm (96 ft-lbs) @ 9,000 rpm

Other features:

204kg dry weight
Six-speed constant mesh transmission
Wet, multiplate slipper clutch
Cast monocoque aircraft-grade aluminium frame
NIX30 inverted front fork and a TTX GP rear shock
Brembo lightweight HYPURE brakes
17-inch Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa V4SP tyres
Cornering Cruise Control
Ride Modes – Rain, Road, Sport, and two customisable Track profiles
Switchable Linear Traction Control and Cornering Traction Control
Wheelie and Rear Wheel Slide Control
Slope Dependent Control
Cornering-optimized ABS
Quick Shifter and Auto Rev-Matching

The Atlas Twins have a 585cc in-line Twin with 270° firing order. 

On Wednesday 19th November I am along with a number of NOC members be attend Motorcycle Live at the NEC to view the new range of bikes and hopefully see some of the modern colours they have created for the Brand.  I hope we can support TVS Norton, listen and understand what they have created as they certainly have put a lot of high tech innovations, quality and money into the Brand. They have now created a phenomenal team of people working for the brand so lets give them chance to show us over the next few years what they can do.
Kind regards
Ian

I guess I'm in the wrong demographic to be interested in any of these. None appeal to me at all. especially  the 'adventure' bikes.
That said, there are very few bikes made in the last 20 years that made me reach for my wallet.
As Robert has said, pricing is going to be critical. The 650-750 segment is now crowded with a vast array of good bikes from well known/ established brands, let alone the many new ones coming out of China so they will need to offer some really good 'ultimate selling points' to stand out.
As for the 1200's, there will always be a small number of people wanting something extra special, so they will sell, but how big is the market for bikes like Ducati Panigales?

What is going to be absolutely essential is design robustness and quality comtrol so these bikes are fault free. The Norton brand really cannot afford any more mess ups if it is to survive. 

Still,  I do hope they do well even if I won't be looking to own one.

George 

If I may be brutally honest, they're not my cup of tea. At all. I like the old bikes, as their form mostly comes from function. I've never liked design for the sake of it. Especially this plastic looking sharped edged stuff. They look like drawings. Then again, there's a reason I'm drawn to classics and not to modern bikes, so it's not really fair to put them down as ugly.

There's definitely a consistency in design and I'm very glad, nearly thankful, they didn't go down the retro route. Those always look like weirdly inflated overly rounded toy versions of the originals (Triumph and Ducati for example). Not ugly, just a tad weird.

It does hurt that they didn't leave the Manx name alone. Can't blame them, but it feels a bit respectless for me.

Regarding the comment that the NOC shouldn't be rubbing shoulders with the new Norton name owners: I think there's definitely a big gap in sentiment between the two. For me, it's got nothing to do with the Norton that I like. The Norton that was built up, created a history and then, sadly, died.

In the end, it's just large industrial looking to make money, using sentiment for smart marketing. But fair play to them for doing that. It's how things go. I can't get hot or cold for the new Norton company, but it's for others to decide if they just bought a name (as I feel) or if they've bought the history too. It's all very subjective and that's okay. Motorcycles are emotion.

It would be a shame tough, if their legal department would start doing weird things like preventing suppliers of classic parts using the Norton name or logo. That would be (a) pity, but things like that do happen. So why not keep them as friends? I can see the point in that. So will they. As without the classic scene, their whole history gets out of sight too.

We can co-exist, as I think we both need something from each other.

Sorry, I did let myself go there a bit, didn't I? I hope I don't come across as anti. It's just apples and pears for me.

Steering back to the original question: I'm sure a thorough market research has been done, so plenty of people will like them.

The new logo looks more like that of Norton Abrasives than Norton Motorcycles. I wonder if the legal department at Saint-Gobain are considering action ? 

We surely need to welcome owner of new Nortons to the NOC so there's no need to talk the new machines down.  Anyone who can afford to buy one can surely find a place for an old one, and they might well respond to a bit of encouragement from NOC members.  The future of the club depends on the next generations.  And there's not a lot of point judging the new machines until we see them.

I still see this as primarily an exercise in Technology Transfer.  TVS can afford to employ some of the best brains in the design and technology side of the UK motor industry, and the revival of the Norton name must have assisted them to attract the recruits they want.  And they want that knowledge to be available in their Indian factories to make them serious fashion competitors in emerging world markets against the leading European and Japanese makers.  The first Japanese cars and motorcycles were UK models...and as soon as the Norton name is on MotoGP winners, the whole world will know TVS has arrived.  Do they need to make a profit in the UK?  I doubt it.

I apologies for taking things this way. I didn't want it to spieal in negativity. David could be right that new Norton owners, might have space for an old one too. It could attract new members indeed.

The post was clear in intention: do we like them or not?

It was my fault trying to explain that, although I find them alien from what Norton is to me, I don't want to put them down as rubbish.

So, steering things to the positive again: they definitely have created a consistency in design. An own character so to say. And I do am curious how the engines will perform and how reliability has been addressed.

To be honest - they aren't my cup of tea either.  But then again - there are so many makes, styles and types of motorcycle available, it's impossible to design one to attract everybody.  It does seem odd to change the Norton script to much - they do have a tenuous link to the past - via Kenny Drier's Commando - so it seems odd to me that they choose to build on the name yet not build on the totally non-mechanical link to the past which is the Norton scripted name (albeit with lots of updates).  It might be interesting to see what colour schemes they come up with.

All the comments show that the new Nortons are not aimed at us grey beards.But if they prove to be good performers and value for money they will catch on. However , i think they missed a trick ditching the Kenny Dreer Norton as i was hoping they would iron out the problems other owners complain about. The retro styling was not one of the issues.
Just my opinion.

Occasionally lip service is paid to the notion of attracting younger members to our club.

If those new and modern TVS Nortons prove successful then maybe we 'll have the opportunity of establishing a new generation of NOC members. 

As a club we probably need to change things though, for example perhaps we could offer more traditional international motorcycle rallies, accessible for everyone rather than the exclusive NOC luxury resort events with gala dinners etc... 

Or do we just keep riding down the same old road, leaving the future behind us?

Finally, after a lifetime at the Mill , medical retirement means i dont have to worry about mortgage, kids , wife, DIY ,work and doing overtime. Good luck to any working youngster who wants to join an owners club and attend rallies.
But i see your point Gordon. With a very reliable , cheap, press starter and go motorcycle , we could see more riders rather than mechanics and engineers.

You rarely see a classic Triumph at runs and rallies now. Just modern ones. With luck, the new Nortons will be a success and a new generation of Norton owners will gently displace us dinosaurs. 

Has anyone else tried looking at the nortonmotorcycles.com website?

To my eyes it is a mess, with mixed-up pages that lock in scrolling, text written by AI or very odd humans, and little technical information. Click on models, click the Atlas picture, and scroll down to see the Manx image, and then lock-up.

I cannot understand a company starting a new launch, having spent millions of pounds on development, who fail to present a readable website.

It's a no from me. Style wise... Bit dreary. I'm sure I could like them if I stared long enough. 
Look battery operated to me. 
Hope they're cheap as there is a lot of strong Chinese competition with solid basis like the voge using a bmw engine, which now have a massive following. 
Website is a mess for a rewrite of a brand. 

The v4 looks nice, but a 1200? some have mentioned the Triumph T120 - they are poles apart.  The other two look like the Pegaso styling from the 90's. If the seat height fits and the price is right they may prove reliable bikes for those who buy them. I'm with Paul Alibone on this, the Chinese are making good bikes, the big 4 Japanese manufacturers are trying to compete with the Chinese and Norton are just blindly going their own way. Where is there evidence to support a 1200? just because you can build it doesn't mean you should. 1000cc bikes sell few and far between, the trade sales data clearly shows that. 

What will be the USP of the new Atlas range? BMW have a new middle weight out with an unusual 135 crank twin.  How will the Atlas bikes stand out in a field where there are many very adequate bikes that can be had for around £7K ?  The 1200 bike may be a 'halo' model and the greater price it can command will ensure profitability.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. i am not at all impressed with the look of these new Nortons but someone will be ............... I expect. I am not particularly adept at messing around with engines other than gaskets and tappets etc. New bikes seem to need all the work to be done by dealer networks these days. Thats why I sent my ES2 to Andover Norton for a complete restoration and although stalegtites have appeared where it used to be in the garage I expect the bill to be a damn sight less than the cost of this new range .

Andy

Even got a Norton Girl..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLk4d8AHlno
AI gone wild on Oberdan Bezzi's stuff? 

Went to NEC show today and the new Nortons looked good on their stand. No more information than has been released already. My impressions just looking and sitting on them:

Positive:

• The bikes are all a clean and uncluttered in style
• The colours look nice being metallic pastels
• The clip-on Manx does look good
• The Atlas GT has got pillion rests and luggage

Negative:

• The Manx roadster is quite ugly with the front view looking like a big scooter
• The Atlas feels smaller than a traditional Commando
• The Atlas seat looks too narrow for long distance
• The clip-on Manx does have an extreme riding position, reminded me of an MV F4.
• The new Norton logo is weak and unclear

It was nice to meet and chat to Ian. We thought about what bikes might come next: another twin seems likely and it could be called a Nomad, or we fancied a 900cc Commando; also a 500cc single to be called an International. Talking to one of the management team on the stand my enquiry after a future single got a 'wait and see' response.
 

I agree with Norman Lorton with regard to the Manx roadster's looks. The headlamp area is quite ugly compared to the faired 'R' variant. I know the 'R' has a fairing for the stylists to play with but I would have thought that they could have produced something more pleasing - even a traditional round headlamp shell would look better!

Some of you may remember the controversial BMW duck billed GS launched around 30 years ago, a look much frowned upon at that time.
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Perhaps it goes to show new designs that dare to be different often succeed.

it will be interesting to learn the opinion of younger minds, as that's probably where the future of Norton lies.
 

Any news on the pricing of these bikes yet?