The pedal I thought would work on my bike I now see is not the correct version, wrong offset and length of the lever end to the rod. If someone gets a chance, could they provide a photo and perhaps dimensions of the offset from pivot and c to c length of the lever end. I have a badly worn pedal that I can cannibalize to modify the good one.
Thanks,
Mike
I also provided a photo so my accomplices can see that I'm actually making some progress, albeit slowly.
Photos/ measurements
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Looks to me like there are…
Looks to me like there are at least 2 gardengate variants. You have the under-the-axle rod and I have the over-the-axle version. Offset is probably the same but c to c different. The parts book lists the same # for ES2 and Inter so it must be a year to rear difference. Thanks for the enlightenment Richard.
Mike
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Is it possible that the over…
Is it possible that the over the axle variant is for Model 18 rigid
chassis ?
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I don't think so. Most Inter…
I don't think so. Most Inter and ES2 photos I've seen are over-axle.
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More thoughts
My ES2 is a 1950 model. I have both Main - Smith ES2 reprints for 1950-52 - workshop manuals and parts lists. All appear to show the lever arm at the wheel oriented upward for over axle rod placement. The parts list shows the same part and number for the arm for 16H , ES2 , 30 M and 40 M so perhaps mine is an oddity.
I also have both of Roy Bacons books on Norton singles. One volume contains a comprehensive list of year by year changes for model/year recognition yet there is no mention of brake rod orientation.
Interesting mystery so perhaps a more knowledgeable member can clear this up.
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I tried googling different…
I tried googling different years and see the low version on +/- post 1950 ES2s. Not sure why they would have changed.
for example:
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My 1952
plunger ES2 has the rod under the spindle if that helps. The operating lever on the brake plate is much shorter than the one you show Michael, and the corresponding part of the pedal also seems longer from those photos.
I have some photos from the NMM and again these show the later machines with the underslung rod.
No idea why they should have changed but it seems to me that rear suspension deflection with the rod over the spindle would cause the brake to come on (harder), the opposite for under the axle.
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Thanks Ian
Ian makes a good point - it seems to me that with no foot on the brake pedal the pedal itself would rise and fall with the rear wheel. In the over axle configuration, once the pedal has a foot on it so that it cannot move with the wheel it would result in more brake being applied as the rear suspension compresses.
It also seems that a longer clevis arm and shorter pedal arm would require more pedal effort for a given amount of braking than the other way around so perhaps this was reason for change.
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Operating lever lengths
It seems that with the underslung rod both brake plate arm and pedal arm are quite short; with the over axle version both are longer so I suspect the mechanical advantage is similar with both setups.
I don't think the pedal would move under suspension movement as it's constrained by the stop in one direction and the return spring in the other. But under full suspension deflection, with the underslung rod there would be greater pedal movement before the brake was applied; vice versa for the other configuration.
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Still need some dimensions....
......for the type pictured here. Pivot to clevis, c to c and offset.
Thanks to everyone for their contributions,
Mike
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foto 0068- Pedal freno …
foto 0068- Pedal freno (modelo 16h) longitud mayor: 12 1/2 "( 317,5mm) ; Longitud menor 3 1/2"(88.9mm)
foto 0075- Brazo freno rueda (modelo 16h) longitud : 3 1/2" -
A iguales longitudes (31/2")no se produce ganancia de fuerza. Si realizamos una fuerza en el pedal de freno de 30 Kilogramos (momento) 30 kg x 317,5mm = F x 88,89mm, La fuerza de frenado será: F= 30 x 317,5 - /- 88,89 = 107 kg en ambas brazos pedal y rueda.
Saludos Gerardo.
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Gracias Gerardo............
...........pero necessito estos dimensiones en el foto, horizontal y vertical.
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brake lever N4 6732
Michael,
I've dug out a spare lever and taken photos for you, hopefully attached. The measurements are: centre of pedal to centre of spindle 12 3/4" (323mm) and the lever arm is 3 5/8" (92mm).
Regards, Philip
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Las medidas de Philip deben…
Las medidas de Philip deben ser las correctas, mi palanca actual está ensamblada en la motocicleta y seguro cometí errores en las mediciones.
Disculpas y saludos......
Gerardo.
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Gentlemen, My failure is to…
Gentlemen,
My failure is to communicate that the pedal variant that I'm interested in has an offset to the inside of about 1-1/2" to 2" and a longer arm to the clevis. I don't have a good photo to illustrate this type, only the type that I now have which won't work on a plunger with the high rod.
Mike
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Hi Mike-
Hope these are of some help - difficult to measire accurately without disassembly .
Outboard face of pivot boss to outboard face of arm at clevis
is : 1 3/4"
Center of pivot to center of clevis is : 2 5/8"