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1953 ES2 electric start?

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Hi,

Is it possible with modifications to install an electric start to my 1953 ES2.

I have recently had a severe right foot injury from my beloved 850 Mk111 and dont worry i still love her to bits, and we are currently installing an up to date starter mechanism to her, its my ES2 that bothers me now.if its not possible i will have to try and master the left foot technique ,

Kind Regards

Andrew

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Hi Andrew, I can't help you with any advice on putting an electric start on an ES2, but putting a Tri-Spark ignition on your Commando will stop the bike from kicking back. It's the best thing I've done to mine and it's a different bike with very easy starting. You won't need to change the original starter mechanism either.

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Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply, i will upgrade the ignition system on the Commando it will be money well spent.

The ES2 is usually a good starter and lazy with a kickback, if she decides to go puh " puh" puh" usually on the next swing we are up and running.

Its just me lost my confidence with the Commando at the moment . We will get the timing checked , check the fuel lines , clean the carbs out and get her set up properly. Before the mishap the last time i started her, i was just getting her over TDC and she sprung into life , just like starting a moped , i thought well we are pretty well set up , then the next time i went to start her all hell was let loose with me thrown to the floor , i am keen as the rest of us to find out what has been going on.

WATCH THIS SPACE !!!

Andrew

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Andrew, Best thing I did with my Mk 3 850 Commando was to change back to 20/50 oil. Starts dead easy now.

As for your ES2, my answer would be to convert it to a model 50, easier to buy or collect model 50 engine bits but don't forget the 18 tooth engine sprocket.

I can start my model 50 with my hand and no it's not knackered but my favourite machine and only slightly less performance but smoother with it.

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I've never come across a starter for the ES2 but I have seen commando clutches fitted with belt drive kits, if the commando starter uses a modified primary drive for the starter is there scope to make something that works? It wouldn't be a straight forward task though.

Stick with the ES2, they are an easy starter when set up right, left footed with it on the stand shouldn't be a problem. Would converting to a model 50 really solve the issue if the concern is it kicking back? I've never had a problem sourcing bits for mine ES2 anyhow...

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Previously andrew_windsor wrote:

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your reply, i will upgrade the ignition system on the Commando it will be money well spent.

The ES2 is usually a good starter and lazy with a kickback, if she decides to go puh " puh" puh" usually on the next swing we are up and running.

Its just me lost my confidence with the Commando at the moment . We will get the timing checked , check the fuel lines , clean the carbs out and get her set up properly. Before the mishap the last time i started her, i was just getting her over TDC and she sprung into life , just like starting a moped , i thought well we are pretty well set up , then the next time i went to start her all hell was let loose with me thrown to the floor , i am keen as the rest of us to find out what has been going on.

WATCH THIS SPACE !!!

Andrew

If you have electronic ignition I would check your battery. Some electronic ignitions go to advance if the battery voltage drops.

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Previously Dan Field wrote:

Surely if you convert a mag ignition to trispark, you'll loose the Dynamo, or am I missing something?

I believe the Tri spark is for his Commando

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Hi,

The trispark would be for the Commando, its my fault i sort of got two threads running in one. I will open a new thread with the progress on the Commando upgrades.

Kind Regards

Andrew

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Previously andy_marks wrote:

I've never come across a starter for the ES2 but I have seen commando clutches fitted with belt drive kits, if the commando starter uses a modified primary drive for the starter is there scope to make something that works? It wouldn't be a straight forward task though.

Stick with the ES2, they are an easy starter when set up right, left footed with it on the stand shouldn't be a problem. Would converting to a model 50 really solve the issue if the concern is it kicking back? I've never had a problem sourcing bits for mine ES2 anyhow...

Andrew, I had an interesting lesson recently in starting my '51 ES2. An older and wiser guy was helping me with my new/old AMAL carb setup and when he asked me to start it I began my drill...find compression the hit the decompressor and ease it past etc...works fine and generally starts for me first or second kick. But it does take some serious grunt.

My elder buddy elbowed me aside and showed me how he does it with his bad hips and knees. Using his left foot and the decompresser engaged, he spins the engine over 2 or 3 times...then lets go and it starts every time. Easy-peasy. I've seen him do it a dozen times or more without a miss.

Now granted it only works for me perhaps every third or fourth attempt. Though he claims otherwise... I think he instinctively knows when to release the decompresser. I think there is a "knack" involved.

When I do it is a bit of a hit and miss. My 60 year old starter leg is still working for me, though I do alternate right and left every second day if I'm feeling lame (grin)

but i figure as I get more long-in-the-tooth I will have to perfect his technique.

Grant in Toronto

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Hi Grant,

Thoroughly enjoyed reading your post i knew i had blow it breaking the same ankle twice . I have been a bit down in the dumps thinking of the best way to start it even residing to getting a set of rollers to fire her up in the garage and getting a mate to help out on a run. You just loose that independence you once took for granted.

The left foot cranking her over and then dropping the decompressor is the best option i have.

It will be a few weeks before anything happens and i will let you all know .Kind Regards

Andrew

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My elder buddy elbowed me aside and showed me how he does it with his bad hips and knees. Using his left foot and the decompresser engaged, he spins the engine over 2 or 3 times...then lets go and it starts every time. Easy-peasy. I've seen him do it a dozen times or more without a miss.

Grant, I have been starting my 350 Matchless single this way for several years and the technique works well, but I still don't manage a start first time every time!

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Graet that this is working for you Richard. I'm off to practice some more as is it is a real knee-joint saver. Question is... why is this technique not "common knowledge" ?? Perhaps everybody knew this 60 years ago?

The fellas I know who give up their vintage bikes are mainly selling out due to kick-start issues.

Our mission now...is to spread the decompressor kick-starting gospel !! (grin)

Grant in Toronto

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Hi Grant,

I will be practicing through the winter months. I had an old friend visit me yesterday who runs a Black Shadow with a chair fitted he is eighty five years young and still going strong. The conversation soon got round to the left foot kick starting and he knew quite a few people from his era using that style.I came from the Japanese invasion left hand gear change one down and however many up, to right hand gear change one up three down on the ES2 and i am comfortable either way. I must admit i have never tried it before but practice makes perfect.

Kind Regards

Andrew

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Hi Andrew,

Yes I agree, it was nice to see Grant's picture. The '49 - '51 plunger ES2s are very attractive, but then I would think that since I also run one :)

I am sorry to hear about the ankle. A good friend locally did the same thing and it dented his confidence for a year. I will not presume to rudely suggest you were at fault, but might you like my friend have had the ball of your foot on the kick start lever and did the lever force your toes up and break the ankle?

You can make your Mk3 starter 99% reliable and useable; many people have done it and there is information in other threads here. As well as a friendly electronic ignition you need a good battery like the Odessy. Sometimes I will kickstart mine just for the novelty of seeing what it is like! Send me a personal message if you want to chat.

Norm

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Hi Norman,

Yes i hold my hands up completely my fault. I had already started the ES2 no problem and then i went over to the Commando not fully committed and hey presto . The Hardest part for me will be to press the electric start i just love kickstarting all my bikes . I cannot let my heart rule my head i have had a passion for motorcycles from the age of eleven working one summer holiday hand picking potatoes to buy my first one. The ES2 with the decompressor will be of great help to me The Commando will be the green button.

Kind Regards

Andrew

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Andrew - You are right about the "not fully committed" verdict. I always push the kickstart tight into the boot heel, point the toes down and try to keep the knee flexed. Following that method the worst I have experienced a few times so far is my knee coming back up at speed as smoke puffs out of the air filter, but the heel is protected.

I hope your injury gets better quickly and I am sure that you will kick start the Mk3 again!

Norm

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I usually use my left foot if I'm not astride the bike - it feels much more natural than crossing legs over, and I feel it's safer against kick back. But people give me very odd looks...More important - I try NEVER to kick the starter without big boots. Partly because the Achilles tendon is safer, but much more because it protects against 'planar fasciitis' - sore tendon attachment in the sole of the foot.LUCAS Rita defaults to retard at low voltage (low speed kick-over) so it is inherently safer. As is the auto advance mag. But manual advance is always a bit riskier.'Spinning' and dropping the decompressor sometimes works but the knack seems to be to kick several times to make it spin quicker and quicker...And then there are those who tell me not to kick start from the side of the bike (on a prewar rear stand) because it twists the stand sideways eventually. I draw the line at trying to start it sitting backwards...One of the Norton books has a photo of a 16H just after the war with a hand lever attached to the kick starter. There's a possible option also? And on Youtube I found a video the other day of some small-ish Indian girl starting an Enfield with her hand on the kickstart. That looks very risky!Take careDavid
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Amongs others, I have a CB77 on which the kickstart arcs forwards and down rather than the traditional backwards and down. Brings a whole new dimension to the concept of perversity.

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Hi All,

Just an update a friend of mine Chris popped over to see me and cut a long story short we ended up in the garage with the ES2. The last time it was run was a month ago , it did take quite a bit of starting, flooded it once and drying the plug out, he did admit he has never started a British bike before so she was all entirely to blame. The one thing i must say with all the kickstarting and swinging going on she never gave a nasty kickback. After the six mile run he went on she was dripping quite a bit of oil out the copper breather pipe is that normal ?

Kind Regards

Andrew

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Hi,

I decided this evening to get the 500 running, still on crutches and not able to put my right foot down and a little crazy i thought i would give it ago. So i put a good workboot on my left foot set the bike up a tickle on the carb and sat on her backwards, i did read a previous post on this and it gave me the idea to have a go. I put my right hand on the decompressor half a dozen kickovers with a couple of spit backs and she burst into life and put the biggest smile on my face in two months.

Andrew

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Previously andrew_windsor wrote:

Hi,

I decided this evening to get the 500 running, still on crutches and not able to put my right foot down and a little crazy i thought i would give it ago. So i put a good workboot on my left foot set the bike up a tickle on the carb and sat on her backwards, i did read a previous post on this and it gave me the idea to have a go. I put my right hand on the decompressor half a dozen kickovers with a couple of spit backs and she burst into life and put the biggest smile on my face in two months.

Andrew

Ha ! Andrew ...picturing you has had me giggling for the last couple days. Would love to have seen that ! In the words of my gramp;...I can throw away me glasses, I've seen everything now !!

Can't blame you though. Nothing more satisfying than kick starting a bike and if it takes sitting on it backwards then sobeit !! Well done !

Good luck with future decompresser starts and "dont break a leg"

Grant

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Previously Paul Knapp wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the 'easy starter' attachment which I think the type 76 Amal had as standard on the ES2 bikes, along with the Velos from around the same era. Since fitting one to my ES2 it has made starting much more predictable as well as providing a fast idle as reqd for warm up.

Hi Paul. I've got one fitted and setup exactly as specified in the manual and all it seems to do is ensure that I flood the bike. That said...if I crank on the "easy Starter" when the engine is cold, in theory, provided I don't give it any throttle it should work. Seemed like a good idea but I noticed they dropped it before too long. Probably people like me just can't resist giving just a tiny bit of throttle as well as the Easy Start which ensures that I flood the beastie.

My ES2 really "wants" to start even at zero C temperature. Tickle it and prime it with throttle open a bit... Usually second kick. Unless there is somebody watching then it takes three or four. (grin)

I removed the choke completely. just don't seem to need it.

I use the Easy Start if I have to step away from the bike when idling to raise the idle quickly as it will definitely stall. Really handy for that reason. Takes a good 15 minutes before the bike is truly warm and idles as it should.

All that said...that Easy Starter T bar just plain looks great on a 276 !!

Grant

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I use Bikes with left and right side kickstarts and I suffer with nerve damage which can appear at any time to incapacitate my right leg..This can also make it difficult to get on and off the bike. I can happily drive an automatic car with my left leg only,when needed. Its also possible to drive a manual using the left leg only ,but its very wearing!. We have an amazing capacity to adapt if we put the effort in..

 


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