A question for all with excellent memories of the early 60s. Was the background to the raised letters on the Lightweight Norton tank badges painted and if so was it in the same colour as the tank? Mine showed signs that it was when I brought it seven years ago and it obviously had never been cosmetically restored.
Attached is a photo of my Navigator parked at the top of Ham Hill as I enjoy the spectacular view of the sky and beautiful South Somerset countryside. Taking the opportunity to do the last 100 miles before the post rebuild 500 mile service before the weather turns!
Two tone Slimline Dommy tank…
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Thanks for the replies…
Thanks for the replies Robert and Ian, there is obviously circumstantial evidence which hints that the Lightweights did have the badges painted. However, knowing how Norton management were struggling financially in the 60s and didn't invest in them I wonder if they didn't bother. It would be nice to know for sure!
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I am intending to do exactly…
I am intending to do exactly that Ian and have brought a small 'touch up' paint pen of matching paint for a couple of pounds hoping it will do the job. I'm just intrigued to know whether Norton bothered to back in the day!
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The best way to check…
The best way to check authenticity is to look at period road tests , Bikes often borrowed from dealers stock.. And ask members who have owned the models from then till now. I had a two tone Norton in the early 1960's and have kept one for the last 36 years, only repainting when absolutely necessary through rust taking hold. Factory photos are less reliable as pictures of pre production bikes got sent to the advertising dept sometimes. I am looking at one that shows paint missing from footrests , side panels missing tickler slot and tank badges that never reached the sales floor !.
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Wise words Robert, sadly I…
Wise words Robert, sadly I haven't been able to find any contemporary road tests of any of the Norton Lightweights let alone one with coloured photos. My Norton sales brochure only has a coloured photo of the Electra which of course is silver so that doesn't help. The coloured illustrations of the standard Navigator in polychromatic blue and Jubilee in flamboyant burgundy aren't detailed enough to give an answer. I'm going to hand paint mine with metallic Lotus Pacific Blue to match the tanks and mud guards because I think it is aesthetically pleasing...... Nuff said!
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I've just dug out...
... my copy of a compendium of Norton articles which includes road tests of Jubilee, Navigator and Electra from the Motor Cycle and Motor Cycling. The photos are poor quality and grainy but it seems clear that the Jubilee and Navigator badges have no paint but the Electra, which has a silver tank, seems to have a black background. To add even more confusion, there's also a riders' reports article on the Jubilee which is accompanied by two photos of different bikes which are unclear but definitely show the Norton badge with a dark background. Obviously real bikes (reg 620FXF and JPH431C) as are the others.
So as before, there's obviously no "correct" way.
Incidentally, that book - Norton from 1946 edited by Cyril Ayton, former editor of Motorcycle Sport, is a real goldmine. ISBN 1-870979-00-1 if you can find one. In fact there are a few listed: https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?ds=20&kn=1-870979-00-1&ref_=ds_ac_d_14&sts=t
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Here is a picture before…
Here is a picture before 1961
Oliver Sacks with his first motorcycle a Red and Dove Grey Jubilee Deluxe.
Definitely tank badge not painted and rubber knee grips already lost !!
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I dissagree ! , the badge…
I dissagree ! , the badge would be painted the same colour as the tank lower ,white (dove).
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Sales Brochures
Looking through the most excellent collection of Norton sales brochures .....assembled by the Editor, I notice that from 1960 onwards the Tank badges had various finishes.
Most of the Models (but not all) have the raised lettering (ie. Norton) painted Black.
This continues for 1961 and 1962. However the new UK 650SS has the background filled in with Black whereas the Norton letters remain with a natural metal finish.
Apparently the export models of that era reflected this change with background colours of Red, Silver and Black depending on the Tank finish.
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Thanks for all that feedback…
Thanks for all that feedback Ian, Graham, Robert and Philip, knowing Norton I suspect the finish on Lightweight tank badges changed on and off over the years! Thank you for your link to that book Graham, that looks a fascinating read - I have ordered a used copy for a fiver on Amazon and look forward to reading how the Lightweights were received back in the day! I'm going to experiment by touching on my Navigator with matching 'polychromatic blue' paint. If it turns out half respectable I will post a picture! N
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Just a thought
Did Norton colour the tank badges to suit the model, one colour for, say a 500, another for a 600?
I can think of a couple of manufactures that did this, although smaller ranges of vehicles.
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Hi John and Paul, thanks for…
Hi John and Paul, thanks for your input. I am getting impression that there is growing evidence that Norton did at least occasionally paint the background of the letters on the chrome tank badges to match one of the petrol tank colours. When I brought my unrestored 1964 Navigator certainly had the background painted in matching polychromatic blue so I intend to touch it up with the same colour now I have restored it. N
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Painting of tank panels
Check out the supposedly NOS item on eBay Motors US. Item no 37663650226. Screenshot attached.
Also check out the photo of my original Atlas tank.
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Reference the NOS tank panel…
Reference the NOS tank panel, the paintwork does look suspiciously new and would the factory have supplied it with blue smears on the raised lettering ?
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Good questions Alan, as for…
Good questions Alan, as for Norton's quality control by the 60s I suspect it wasn't perfect!!!
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Thanks Ian, further evidence…
Thanks Ian, further evidence Norton painted them to match - that's identical to my Navigator's badges!
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'Norton Twins Restoration' …
'Norton Twins Restoration' (Bacon) has lots of original period pictures. All are black and white, so can't always tell between black and tank colour.
Page 18: 1960 Model 99 de Luxe: coloured top half of tank, dove grey bottom - and no paint on the badge.
Page 19: 1962 650SS: silver tank. Black background to letters.
Page 20: 1966 Atlas: silver tank. Appears to be no paint on chrome flash
Page 20: 1966 88SS: silver tank. Black background to letters
Page 21: 1965 Atlas: coloured tank, same colour background to letters
Page 22: 1967 Atlas: coloured tank, same colour background to letters
Page 23: 1969 Mercury: silver tank and dark painted background - but cannot tell if it's black but looks dark enough
Page 34: 1967 Atlas: silver tank, Black background to letters.
Page 139: 1961 Jubilee: twin tone tank, Norton raised letters in black (possibly - but uncertain)
Page 147: 1959 Jubilee: twin tone tank, no paint on badge
Page 148: 1964 Jubilee: single colour tank, background to letters looks like tank colour
Page 158: 1963 Jubilee: single colour tank, background to letters looks like tank colour
Page 159: 1959 Jubilee: twin tone tank, possibly black, and black background to letters
Page 160: 1959 Jubilee: twin tone but probably no paint on badge
It looks like the factory didn't have a fixed policy. But generally with single tank colour they used the same colour behind the letters. And generally with plain silver tanks they used black. With twin tone tanks, they couldn't make up their minds so they sometimes used top half colour and sometimes used black background but occasionally used black letters instead on Lightweights!
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Thanks for looking up all…
Thanks for looking up all that meticulous detail David, very helpful - but what a shame there were no colour photographs which would have been conclusive. I suspect you are right in your conclusion about factory policy - given the availability of the right colour paint and time it would take to paint the tank badges I'm sure it would have been skipped when the pressure to deliver an order was on! Once I've found time to do the Navigator's post rebuild 500 mile service I will paint mine to match the tank and post a picture if I do a good enough job!
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Still dissagree!!, Having…
Still dissagree!!, Having had an 88DL and a 99DL with orriginal paint ,they both had the badge around the lettering painted in dove . Perhaps it was a 1960 thing which was i believe the launch year of the big DL . Funny that we are still interested in such trivia 65 years on. The late great Neville Hinton (our records man) told me in no uncertain terms that my red 99DL was the wrong colour (you did not argue with Neville!). It like my 88 actually left the factory in red with chrome case !.
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I'm not disagreeing Robert,…
I'm not disagreeing Robert, my 1964 Navigator has the back ground painted in the original polychromatic blue and the way it has faded to still match the original paint on the tank suggests it left the factory that way the way both your bikes did. I'm just guessing that that detailing might have been missed occasionally when the pressure was on!
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Delux finish
I'm with Rob on the Delux badge finishes. I had two in the past (one Red, one Black; two tones)and both had dove grey badge background.
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Norton and AMC
Plumstead had a tendency to use large and coloured tank badges on Matchless and AJS. Bracebridge street seem to have been more restrained in most things.
Might there have been a change of practice when production moved and AMC had full control of production ?
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I wasn't aware of that…
I wasn't aware of that difference Richard but it sounds plausible. My Navigator was built at Plumstead and when I brought it about 7 years ago it had obviously never had a cosmetic restoration. Both tank badges had the background to the Norton letters neatly painted polychromatic blue. Although I had the tanks and mudguards resprayed in the original colour last year I didn't do the tank badges. I have attached a photo of one of them which seems to match the picture of the NOS badge from the states. I think we have enough evidence to prove that at least some Lightweights had the tank badges factory painted to match the tank colour scheme.
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Tank Badges
My 1963 Norton sales Brochure shows all the standard Lightweights with unpainted badges apart from the De-luxe 350 which appears to be Black.......matching the Tank top colour. Additionally, all the export Lightweights were supposed to have painted badges. There was not that many.
Now these Brochures were printed at the end of 1962 so may not reflect the actuality of the times. As by January 1963 Navigator production had moved to Plumstead and was in full swing almost immediately.
Of possible interest to the History Buffs.......the two last Navigators to be built at Bracebridge were 19P / 105051 & 19P / 105052 in early 1963. Suggesting that the engines were assembled elsewhere.
Returning to Brochure pictures......my 1964 Brochure reveals a significant change to the finish of the model badge colours. The Brochure shows the Jubilee with a Burgundy colour Tank with a Light Blue badge background. (Artistic mistake???)
The 350 Navigator gets a Polychromatic Blue Tank but lighter Blue painted badge. The new 400 Electra getting a Silver Tank but also Light Blue painted Badge background.
There does appear to be any hard-fast rule in respect of the Lightweight Badge finishes.
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Thanks Stanley, I think we…
Thanks Stanley, I think we have enough evidence to suggest that it was common practice for Norton to paint the background of their tank badges on many of their bikes. When I get time I am going to repaint my Navigator badges - in my eyes it sets the tank of nicely!
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!960's two tone Slimline Dommy tank badges were painted in the same colour as the tank bottoms .With the raised edge of lettering chrome.