English French German Italian Spanish

Sidecar Jubilees?

Submitted by michael_coare on Mon, 06/03/2023
Forums
Light Twins

I’ve just re-visited the website’s History section on ’45-45 Trials Bikes as I had previously moaned it was just a solid wodge of text, with zero formatting to make it readable. I notice that the content has now been tweaked to make it better, and then was amazed to read the following:

“Factory Development Engineer Bob Collier….then campaigned a Jubilee and later a Navigator outfit, his valiant efforts could be said to have been for publicity purposes.”

Can I believe my eyes? Is this really true? That poor old Fanny B frame could barely hold itself together- and I speak affectionately as the owner of an ES400 “Project” ie pile of bits. This model needed extra meccano from Plumstead to keep the headstock pointing vaguely in the same direction as the rest of the bike, to cope it is said with all that extra power….how on earth could it manage to pull a chair, never mind compete in Trials! If indeed it was a publicity stunt, are there any surviving pictures of either of the machines in “action”?

Submitted by michael_coare on Tue, 07/03/2023

Permalink

Well as the response was positively underwhelming, I naturally resorted to Google.Searching for "Bob Collier + Norton Navigator", I came across the following pic

Pressreader

I cannot determine the source of the picture to give credit: it appears in something called PressReader, and I suspect it came from Classic Bike magazine, although I cannot say for sure, or what date/issue it is.

Certainly a "Bambino" style sidecar, as fitted to some scooters of the era undertaking some serious rock-climbing. The bike "could" be a L/W, but the definition is too poor.

I await a further period of deafening silence.

Submitted by andy_sochanik on Tue, 07/03/2023

Permalink

In my Lightweight Twins History of the Jubilee family, I make reference to:

May 1960. Bob Collier takes a Jubilee and Bambini sidecar outfit around Scotland in the ISDT.

NOC Member Colin Leighfield sent me a photocopy (of a photocopy) of an article he found on Bob Collier, where they refer to him as "Captain Ingenious" - and there is a grainy picture of said Jubilee included on one page... Sadly, I dont know who printed the article.

Bob Collier ISDT 1960 Jubilee + Bambini

Submitted by michael_coare on Wed, 08/03/2023

Permalink

Surely the triumph of hope over adversity! But then, that siamesed exhaust must have added, oh, half a BHP?!! You certainly have to take your hat off to some people- Bob C was certainly in that category!

The Norton factory at first said, oh no you cannot put a sidecar onto a featherbed, its not suitable.

Then later they said, oh no you cannot put a sidecar onto a commando, its not suitable.

How does it go? Hold my beer......

Andy's above reply shows Bob in action in the Scottish Six Days event in 1960.Referring to my opening piece, as I say I cannot disentangle it's origin, but there's an outside possibility its from the 1961 ISDT held that year in Wales. And I think now that article was in Classic Motorcycle, rather than Classic bike.

Submitted by david_cooper on Wed, 08/03/2023

Permalink

If Bob Collier had anything to do with it, the bike was probably very non standard.  Sammy Miller has one of his creations, where he took two prewar Model 18 engines and re-built them side by side to make a 1000cc parallel twin.  A bit like Alan Milyard...

Submitted by george_farenden on Sat, 11/03/2023

Permalink

 You could go round and round in circles to build up enough momentum to move off!

But they fitted these chairs to fartboxes (sorry, Vespa's and Lambretta's) with 10hp on a good day and they managed. OK, well managed to get to 40mph on a good day, so a Jubilee should have coped ok. Also very few people who would have ridden these were overweight at that time, so that would have helped.

 

Submitted by colin_leighfield on Wed, 22/03/2023

Permalink

The bike was a standard 1960 Jubilee, Bob did it to prove that it could be done and it completed the Six Days in 1960. The photo shows Bob with his wife Joan and his passenger, Gordon Wilde, who I knew because he was a buyer at W.Canning In Birmingham when I worked there, 1963/72. Later Bob removed the sidecar, fitted a Navigator engine and Roadholder forks, to make it into a solo trials bike. He scrapped the (lousy) Wipac ignition system and aluminium welded the magneto drive housing from one of the singles onto the timing side and fitted a magneto with manual timing adjustment. I knew Bob in those days and he let me ride it around the mini trials section in his very large back garden, in Erdington. It was amazing how it would plonk around at virtually zero revs over anything. That was in 1964, I don’t know what happened to it eventually, most of Bob’s stuff went to Sammy Miller after he died. Little known is that after Suzuki introduced their 50cc two-strokes, they approached Bob in 1964 and asked him if he could make three of these into trials machines to enter the ISDT, as a publicity exercise. He used girder forks to make longer swinging arms and mounted in them at the front end, three-speed Albion gearboxes, connected by chain to the final drive. They had separate gear levers, so that by using both of them, you could select twelve speeds. It sounds Heath Robinson, but didn’t look it and I was able to ride one of them around Erdington for about five miles. I was astonished at how well it went. I believe that the bikes were entered and finished. Bob was an incredible man, not just an innovative engineer, but also a top level trials rider, solo and sidecar. Fond memories of a top bloke and a very decent man.

 


Norton Owners Club Website by 2Toucans