Oil/Tyre pressure?

Previously wrote:

I would like recommendations for Oil viscosities/manufacturers and Tyre pressures for a 64 Norton 650SS fitted with an external oil Filter.

Forks/Engine/Gearbox/Primary Chaincase.

3.60 x 19 Dunlop TT100 Front.

4.10 x 19 Dunlop TT100 Rear.

Thanks.

Mick Pond.

hello the oil you need is Millers Classic 20/50 That what I run My 650 Manxman on ? as for the tyre pressure 23 psi front 28 psi rear hope this helps

Millers is great oil! But some would stronglyrecommendstraight50 weight (see mostNortonmanuals & most of the better engine builders websites. This is always a touchy subject, as everyone has an opinion, but the people who make their living rebuilding Norton engines certainly know a lot more on this subject than I do.

With an external filter you willdefinitelywant to be sure to use a detergent oil, as it will carry the bad stuff to the filter, whereas without an oil filter, you would want to use a non-detergent motor oil, so that the crud settles in the sump filter.

Here is a link to a popular classic motorcycle magazine on this subject that you might find informative.

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/nortonoil0908.html

or from Andover Norton:

In production times Norton's first and foremost aim was to sell motorcycles. To do that they recommended not the oils that were technically best, but oils that could be bought at any garage.

This is theonlyreason why Multigrades were recommended. Friends from within the Lubricant industry, as well as Richard Negus, ex-Norton Motors "Chief of Motorcycles, and ex-owner & tuner of the most successful long distance racing Commandos, both confirm that, with the high temperatures combined with the high pressures in a roller-bearing engine, multigrade additives give up quickly and leave you with the base oil within as little as 600 miles- which means you 20W50 becomes 20 oil, which is not up to the job in a Commando engine used properly!

As for the primary drive, oils have changed dramatically since the early seventies, and additives we used to put into our engine oil, like STP, are now already contained in most multigrade oils. These additives are molybdenum (graphite) based, and will give you clutch slip very quickly.

We recommend:

Engine

Straight 40 HD Oil

Primary

Either a Monograde Oil, or (better) ATF Oil.(I use Shell Donax TX)

Gearbox

EP90 Gearbox Oil

or from Norvil:

What Oil / Lubricant Do I Use?

www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk

The following advice is intended for Norton Commando & Dominator Motorbikes

Hi again Mick, as to tyre pressure, there are a few factors to consider, how you ride & what tyre you are running? If you ride a lot at high speed the tyres will get hot & the air will expand & the pressure will increase, where if you ride more casually, you may want slightly higher pressure. The old riders manuals were assuming you were using tires available at that time, well tires are a completely different animal now that they were when our bikes were made.The compounds used are very different, even though the tread pattern may be similar to the originals.

Lets say you run a pair of Avon Super Venoms for example, you might want to run at 28psi front, and 32psi rear, the sidewall rating is stated at 42psi max. If you are running a harder long wearing compound you may want a little less pressure, if you are a heavy person, or ride 2 up a lot, you may want to run a higher pressure. a pound either way on bike tires seems to make a big difference inhandling& braking.

My advice, start at the factory stated pressure & adjust a pound or two up or down to see what works best for you. It would be great to see what everyone else is doing on their pressure and what brand/style of tire !

I have a 1957 Dominator model 77 (600cc) running on new Avon Roadrunners & I like 29psi front & 32psi rear, but thats just me, not right or wrong.

Skip Brolund

Previously wrote:

Hi again Mick, as to tyre pressure, there are a few factors to consider, how you ride & what tyre you are running? If you ride a lot at high speed the tyres will get hot & the air will expand & the pressure will increase, where if you ride more casually, you may want slightly higher pressure. The old riders manuals were assuming you were using tires available at that time, well tires are a completely different animal now that they were when our bikes were made.The compounds used are very different, even though the tread pattern may be similar to the originals.

Lets say you run a pair of Avon Super Venoms for example, you might want to run at 28psi front, and 32psi rear, the sidewall rating is stated at 42psi max. If you are running a harder long wearing compound you may want a little less pressure, if you are a heavy person, or ride 2 up a lot, you may want to run a higher pressure. a pound either way on bike tires seems to make a big difference inhandling& braking.

My advice, start at the factory stated pressure & adjust a pound or two up or down to see what works best for you. It would be great to see what everyone else is doing on their pressure and what brand/style of tire !

I have a 1957 Dominator model 77 (600cc) running on new Avon Roadrunners & I like 29psi front & 32psi rear, but thats just me, not right or wrong.

Skip Brolund

hello skip do you know what you are talking about then it comes too oil the Manual may say 40SAE but that was 50years ago and oil tech as moved on since then Even if its Called 20/50 Classic witch is ten times better than 40SAE , you get better starting for one thing and the oil does not break down to a 20w , And I do not listen too the so called experts ? And you are running you tyres with to much pressure in them , if there too hard you can easy get a puncture ,do you see trials riders with hard tyres ? NO?

hello one thing more you do not use ep90 in a norton gearbox as the ep additive attacks the bronze pain bearings, you need millers hypoid 90, or castrol hypoid 90 this is what John Hudson uesd in his norton gearboxs ,Millers oils Appoved and Awarded By the FBHVC , so See www.millersoils.co.uk est.1887.

Hi Anna, its hard to read your post with all the mis-spelling? Please see about a spell check program or perhaps read the post before hitting send. Please do not take offence, I enjoy reading your opinions, but I dont always understand what you mean when words are missing or mis spelled.

As to oil, I am not going to get into a lengthy multi page re-hash of performance proven oilrecommendationsby my use over 25 years with many Nortons I have owned, or the so called opinions (factsactually) by people much smarter than you or I, and Norton specificbusinessesthat not only rebuild Norton engines for a living (not as a hobby like you and I) but also are involve with different forms of racing, pushing the limits of the machines. I stand by what I said, and backed it up with current facts (not 50 year old info as you suggested).

As to tire pressure, you would do well to go to the tire manufacturer of your choice & auctually take the time to look up therecommendedtire pressure of your favorite tire & start from there. I have been fortunate, and have not had a flat tire on my street bikes in 15 years (other than my trials bike,a Bultaco Alpina which I run less than 10psi by the way). Trials guys get lots of flats, not due to tire pressure, but riding conditions (thorns, sharp rocks, etc), so I dont get the trials comment? Different compound , tread type, road conditions, rider comfort, tire compound, speed , etc. will all affect "proper" tire pressure. For the record, I am not running too much pressure in my Avons, as yousuggest. I am not sure where you are getting your mis-information but since you have no idea anything about my weight,riding style, speed, road conditions, passenger, etc? I have to admit, I mis-wrote that I am running Avon Roadrunners, I am running Avon Speedmaster MKII 3.25-19 front & 3.5-19 rear (asrecommendedby my Avon tire rep & consulting the various manuals) which plainly states arecommendedmaximum pressure cold at 36 PSI !!!

I was not trying to be a tire expert (because I am not) but to see what other people are doing inregardsto their tire pressure, & what brand/type they are using? Not to start a disagreement. According to the UK Avon tire website, one of the biggest mistakes people make is under inflating their tires! This causes premature wear, poor handling, etc. When in doubt, talk to an expert I say, so I do.

Back to my previous post, what brand,type, pressure is everyone running on their respective bikes?

Ride on,

Skip Brolund

Previously wrote:

Hi Anna, its hard to read your post with all the mis-spelling? Please see about a spell check program or perhaps read the post before hitting send. Please do not take offence, I enjoy reading your opinions, but I dont always understand what you mean when words are missing or mis spelled.

As to oil, I am not going to get into a lengthy multi page re-hash of performance proven oilrecommendationsby my use over 25 years with many Nortons I have owned, or the so called opinions (factsactually) by people much smarter than you or I, and Norton specificbusinessesthat not only rebuild Norton engines for a living (not as a hobby like you and I) but also are involve with different forms of racing, pushing the limits of the machines. I stand by what I said, and backed it up with current facts (not 50 year old info as you suggested).

As to tire pressure, you would do well to go to the tire manufacturer of your choice & auctually take the time to look up therecommendedtire pressure of your favorite tire & start from there. I have been fortunate, and have not had a flat tire on my street bikes in 15 years (other than my trials bike,a Bultaco Alpina which I run less than 10psi by the way). Trials guys get lots of flats, not due to tire pressure, but riding conditions (thorns, sharp rocks, etc), so I dont get the trials comment? Different compound , tread type, road conditions, rider comfort, tire compound, speed , etc. will all affect "proper" tire pressure. For the record, I am not running too much pressure in my Avons, as yousuggest. I am not sure where you are getting your mis-information but since you have no idea anything about my weight,riding style, speed, road conditions, passenger, etc? I have to admit, I mis-wrote that I am running Avon Roadrunners, I am running Avon Speedmaster MKII 3.25-19 front & 3.5-19 rear (asrecommendedby my Avon tire rep & consulting the various manuals) which plainly states arecommendedmaximum pressure cold at 36 PSI !!!

I was not trying to be a tire expert (because I am not) but to see what other people are doing inregardsto their tire pressure, & what brand/type they are using? Not to start a disagreement. According to the UK Avon tire website, one of the biggest mistakes people make is under inflating their tires! This causes premature wear, poor handling, etc. When in doubt, talk to an expert I say, so I do.

Back to my previous post, what brand,type, pressure is everyone running on their respective bikes?

Ride on,

Skip Brolund Hello Eugene Well As you've only had Norton's for 25 years , Well when I was 16 , my grandfather bought my first Norton 250 jubilee that was 41 years ago and I have had as many as 20 Motorcycle in my workshop at once, from British to Japanese machines And, I worked On Some of The Biggest Engines ever Built like Doxford 7 Cylinder J type 120.380HP Or Suzler 10 cylinder, K type 230,000HP Or H&W 9 cylinder 38,000HP These Engines Stand some 300 feet Long And some 80 foot across and 100 foot high and there all Uniflow Two stroke Black Oil Injection fitted with superheaters at run at 300 F and the electric boilers run at 450 psi there job is to stop crud oil going into a solid ? and I was a Engineer on these Tanks But That was all Back in the late 1970s the biggest tanker I have been working on was some 250,000 ton dead weight , try get that in your driveway ? So building Norton engines Are like toys Too Me ? And As for Tyre pressures The Norton Manxman 650 Manual Witch you will not have ? states the pressures For front wheel 23psi and 28 PSI rear wheel, So When I give some one advice Its the Right Advice ? And For A 650 CC Norton Engine the Best oil is a Good 20/50 As The A. And. B roads well all ride on are 60 mph or less in places , And AS For MY Spelling You Want Try Living With Dyslexia All your life It does not Mean I am completely THICK ????

Previously wrote:

Hi Anna, its hard to read your post with all the mis-spelling? Please see about a spell check program or perhaps read the post before hitting send. Please do not take offence, I enjoy reading your opinions, but I dont always understand what you mean when words are missing or mis spelled.

As to oil, I am not going to get into a lengthy multi page re-hash of performance proven oilrecommendationsby my use over 25 years with many Nortons I have owned, or the so called opinions (factsactually) by people much smarter than you or I, and Norton specificbusinessesthat not only rebuild Norton engines for a living (not as a hobby like you and I) but also are involve with different forms of racing, pushing the limits of the machines. I stand by what I said, and backed it up with current facts (not 50 year old info as you suggested).

As to tire pressure, you would do well to go to the tire manufacturer of your choice & auctually take the time to look up therecommendedtire pressure of your favorite tire & start from there. I have been fortunate, and have not had a flat tire on my street bikes in 15 years (other than my trials bike,a Bultaco Alpina which I run less than 10psi by the way). Trials guys get lots of flats, not due to tire pressure, but riding conditions (thorns, sharp rocks, etc), so I dont get the trials comment? Different compound , tread type, road conditions, rider comfort, tire compound, speed , etc. will all affect "proper" tire pressure. For the record, I am not running too much pressure in my Avons, as yousuggest. I am not sure where you are getting your mis-information but since you have no idea anything about my weight,riding style, speed, road conditions, passenger, etc? I have to admit, I mis-wrote that I am running Avon Roadrunners, I am running Avon Speedmaster MKII 3.25-19 front & 3.5-19 rear (asrecommendedby my Avon tire rep & consulting the various manuals) which plainly states arecommendedmaximum pressure cold at 36 PSI !!!

I was not trying to be a tire expert (because I am not) but to see what other people are doing inregardsto their tire pressure, & what brand/type they are using? Not to start a disagreement. According to the UK Avon tire website, one of the biggest mistakes people make is under inflating their tires! This causes premature wear, poor handling, etc. When in doubt, talk to an expert I say, so I do.

Back to my previous post, what brand,type, pressure is everyone running on their respective bikes?

Ride on,

Skip Brolund Hello Eugene Well As you've only had Norton's for 25 years , Well when I was 16 , my grandfather bought my first Norton 250 jubilee that was 41 years ago and I have had as many as 20 Motorcycle in my workshop at once, from British to Japanese machines And, I worked On Some of The Biggest Engines ever Built like Doxford 7 Cylinder J type 120.380HP Or Suzler 10 cylinder, K type 230,000HP Or H&W 9 cylinder 38,000HP These Engines Stand some 300 feet Long And some 80 foot across and 100 foot high and there all Uniflow Two stroke Black Oil Injection fitted with superheaters at run at 300 F and the electric boilers run at 450 psi there job is to stop crud oil going into a solid ? and I was a Engineer on these Tanks But That was all Back in the late 1970s the biggest tanker I have been working on was some 250,000 ton dead weight , try get that in your driveway ? So building Norton engines Are like toys Too Me ? And As for Tyre pressures The Norton Manxman 650 Manual Witch you will not have ? states the pressures For front wheel 23psi and 28 PSI rear wheel, So When I give some one advice Its the Right Advice ? And For A 650 CC Norton Engine the Best oil is a Good 20/50 As The A. And. B roads well all ride on are 60 mph or less in places , And AS For MY Spelling You Want Try Living With Dyslexia All your life It does not Mean I am completely THICK ????

Hi All ! After checking with several reputable, old, oil companies & three different Norton gearboxre builders(restorers) the EP gearbox oil discussion can finally be laid to rest!

The late John Hudson rode thousands of miles testing Nortons for reliability and also hadhis own650 Mercury for many years.

His advice on engine oils was to use Castrol GTX which,at thetime, was a 15W/50. His view on straight 40 & 50 oils was that they took too long to warm up and get around the engine compared to multigrades.

Also, that on long fast runs the monogrades tended to lose theirlubricating properties compared to multigrades at high engine temperatures.

About 5 or 6 years ago, I seem to remember the question ofengine oils for Nortons being hotly debated in the Roadholder and reading a couple of articles which discussed and demonstrated, in graph form, viscosityagainst temperature. There are also some web connections which offer similar information.

Gerry Bristow (ex Duckhams expert) wrote a short article, in Roadholder 247 (page24), which summarised his views on motorcycle oils.He later pointed out a super item which could be found on the Real Classic.co.uk website. This March 2003 article gave all the information and explanation needed to make an informed choice. Check it out through Google at www.realclassic.co.uk/ - Click on the Oil Truth.

Unfortunately, it appears to contradict the August 2009 item written for Norton owners. found at

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/techfiles/nortonoil0908.html

With regard to tyres. I have a 650SS with 3.60 x19 & 4.10x19 TT100 tyres.

I put 26 psi in both and the bike handles well. On track days or on long fast runs I up both pressures to 28psi.

40 years ago I used to runa similarbike with 25psi in the front and 22psi in the rear but I am now 4 stone heavier and I notice that the tyrerubber of my Chinese TT100s appears to be a little softer.