How can I check if timing is wrong?

My least favourite 'heavy twin' design feature is the washer behind the intermediate timing gear. As I took off the timing cover (with a rod to stop the gear moving) nonetheless the shaft came out too far and the washer dropped out....Lots of fiddling and I got it back in place. But the pinon had to be joggled and I cannot be absolutely sure it has gone have onto the right tooth of the half time pinion. The spots are hidden unless I strip it all apart.On TDC I can see the spots on the chain sprockets are at about 11o'clock. But is that good enough? Is there a way to check - or even a good quality end-on photo? Neither Haynes nor Neil are clear enough.I wonder how many Dommies lost that washer years ago anyway?!! Number A96, Part T2080 on my parts list.Thank you for any assistance!

Hello there now what are you talking about here, there should nothing moving Has you remove the timing outer cover the washer your talking about that fit behind the intermedate gear should not move the Intermetate shaft is a infrerace fit and it should not move anywhere the Camshaft should not move outward Now for the camshaft timing you have to remove the worm gear its has a left hand thred, once removed you can now see the puch mark on the Crankshaft gear too time the camshafts you next have too find TDC drive side with both valve closed , On the timing side crankshaft gear the puch mark now should be at the top and you intermedate gear puch mark should on the bottom facing the other puch mark on the crankshaft, now you may have too remove the intermedate gear and the camshaft gear together and turn them so the two puch mark meet up one on the crankshaft and the one on the intermedate gear, so now you have these lined up next to check you have the puch marks on the camshaft and intermedate gears at 11 cock and six links inbetween them . now you have this set next is to time up the igntion in the same way from the drive side, remember the igntion lead farthest away from the engine is for the drive side cylinder, the igntion lead next too the rear of the cylinder bloc is for the timing side cylinder so you have the Drive side cylinder LEFT hand side , timing side cylinder RIGHT hand side, now there you are happy tinking yours anna j

It is a 50 year old bike. Maybe the pinion was once an interference fit but not now. Does not rattle but not tight.Thanks for details but that's all clear enough in the books and I've done it before. And it's a lot of work. I'm pretty sure that neither cam nor crank were moved and it all fell back in place correctly. But it might have been able to fall onto the wrong tooth. There is a photo on RealClassic web site of Jim Agar's timing case open and mine looks identical so IF he photo'd it at TDC them I am OK because the chain sprocket spots are in the same places. I might start it up anyway. Easier to do that than strip it for no good reason. Thanks anyway...

Hello yes my Norton Manxman motor was the same when I frist bought the machnie , but we soon sort this out in the engine strip and rebuild and we found other thing not right has well like a broken right hand side valve guide, so more work was done on the Cylinder head and I made up a new Valve guild from Bronze and fitted the rest of them in Bronze too then recut the valve seat and regound the valve to there new angle then laped them in , final tested the valve with bit of engineer blue and white spirt mixed up to see if there were any leaks from the valves has they where seated under there own weight and I did some porting as well that the same time, I found No leaks anywhere first time after lapping in , on the rebuild I fitted a set of New R&M main bearing , the same numbers on them that had come out, I still have the old ones and they been to Yorkshire Bearing Co for testing and cleaning they out past OK in very good order, can be reused there was found extremely very little ware on then so that something else you have to chack out later on , Yours Anna J

It is a 50 year old bike. Maybe the pinion was once an interference fit but not now. Does not rattle but not tight.Thanks for details but that's all clear enough in the books and I've done it before. And it's a lot of work. I'm pretty sure that neither cam nor crank were moved and it all fell back in place correctly. But it might have been able to fall onto the wrong tooth. There is a photo on RealClassic web site of Jim Agar's timing case open and mine looks identical so IF he photo'd it at TDC them I am OK because the chain sprocket spots are in the same places. I might start it up anyway. Easier to do that than strip it for no good reason. Thanks anyway...

Hello yes my Norton Manxman motor was the same when I frist bought the machnie , but we soon sort this out in the engine strip and rebuild and we found other thing not right has well like a broken right hand side valve guide, so more work was done on the Cylinder head and I made up a new Valve guide from Bronze and fitted the rest of them in Bronze too then recut the valve seat and regound the valve to there new angle then laped them in , final tested the valves with bit of engineer blue and white spirt mixed up to see if there were any leaks from the valves has they where seated under there own weight and I did some porting as well that the same time, I found No leaks anywhere first time after lapping in , on the rebuild I fitted a set of New R&M main bearing , the same numbers on them that had come out, I still have the old ones and they been to Yorkshire Bearing Co for testing and cleaning they out past OK in very good order, can be reused there was found extremely very little ware on then so that something else you have to check out later on , Yours Anna J

Previously David Cooper wrote:

It is a 50 year old bike. Maybe the pinion was once an interference fit but not now. Does not rattle but not tight. Thanks for details but that's all clear enough in the books and I've done it before. And it's a lot of work. I'm pretty sure that neither cam nor crank were moved and it all fell back in place correctly. But it might have been able to fall onto the wrong tooth. There is a photo on RealClassic web site of Jim Agar's timing case open and mine looks identical so IF he photo'd it at TDC them I am OK because the chain sprocket spots are in the same places. I might start it up anyway. Easier to do that than strip it for no good reason. Thanks anyway...

David,

Having spent several hours checking camshaft timings for various cams, I now ensure that the dot on the half time pinion and the two teeth on the intermediate pinion on either side of the timing dot are highlighted with white permenant marker. This allows you to see the alignment with the chains in place.

If the crankshaft pinion and intermediate gear sprocket/pinion are correctly positioned, at TDC, then the camshaft sprocket and intermediate gear dots will be in the 11 o'clock position. Check-out the attachment.

Good Morning, Phil!I hoped (and guessed) you might come up with something like this! Many thanks, and much appreciated. I haven't found that picture in any of my books.Allow me to buy you a pint some day!I think I'm OK!RegardsDavid Cooper

If you have any doubts about your valve timing, do not kick the engine over. You can do a quick and dirty check by bringing the pistons to TDC gently. The valves on the exhaust cylinder will be on overlap and equally open. This is a sign of correct timing on any overhead valve engine. If you have this condition then the timing will not be off by even one chain link. Of course you still need to line up the timing marks and count the chain links no matter what you have to undo.