ES2 modern oils / lubricants ?

SAE 40 in the engine but if in the Northern hemisphere consider topping up with SEA 30 until early summer.

EP 90 or 80/90 in the gearbox but use a good one and make sure it is yellow metal friendly.

SEA 20 in the primary chain case. You may have to hunt for that but it is available. But never put anything remotely synthetic anywhere near your clutch plates!

Most important to use E0 petrol. If you live in Devon and Cornwall, Teesside or Scotland, that could be a problem. Outside of that: ESSO Synergy Supreme+ 97 is guaranteed E0 and I believe BP Ultimate is too but they are just no longer open about it. If you see a tanker driver; ask. The solvent is the last thing added to the tanker before delivery.

Also a bit of lead replacement if you are planning to ride hard, I use RedX without issues to date.

Yep what Neil says except I'm not quite so facidious about E0 petrol although I do avoid it if possible!

Im guessing you posted twice by accident, easily done if the website is slow to respond, don't be in a hurry! Oh and I think it should be compulsory to post a picture of your bike when you join the forum!

Dan

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

EP 90 or 80/90 in the gearbox but use a good one and make sure it is yellow metal friendly.

Why not use straight SAE 50 grade oil in the gearbox?...This is what was recommended. It is as thick if not thicker than EP 90 GEAR oil and old boxes show little wear having used it all their lives. No worries of yellow metal attack either.

Les

Because it's designed for gears ...... No other reason!

Sorry to have to correct you David but there is sliding contact in normal involute straight gears as used in Norton gearboxes. When I designed sidecar racing motorcycle gearboxes back in the early seventies, I had to think about three different kinds of wear. Sliding, pitting and catastrophic wear (broken teeth). I didn't bother much about bearing wear because a race gearbox has quite short service life between overhauls. For a road going bike plain bearing life is important because worn bearings affects gear life. I think that a lubricant that works well for the bearings is ok for the gears with the moderate power of a road bike. On some japanese bikes I know of, smooth gearchanges is dependant on oil viscosity.

Mike

I think I'm right in saying that EP oils also contain additives, (sulphur and phoshorus?) that give a sacrificial coating to the gears reducing wear, but it was this coating that was damaging white and yellow metals so the additives were changed.

anyway I keep telling myself I'll not get involved in another oil thread but fail! But in my mind what is far more important is changing the oil regularly, even in bikes that are hardly used.

On my old DRZ Suzuki I used to use double ester fully synthetic oil and you could really feel the difference shifting gears after an oil change, but then that gearbox shared the oil with the engine.

Another oil problem?

My Jubilees has been stood for about 15yrs. I am now in the process of getting it going for next year.

Prior to its last start up about 15yrs ago I put Duckhams multigrade in the engine, I was told it was a good idea!

I will change the oil soon, am I ok in putting another type of multigrade in. Any advice please.

John.

The Glacier bush design manual warns against using copper/pb bushes with GL5 oil where the oil temp exceeds 100c. No mention of restrictions on use of GL4, and if your gearbox oil exceeds 100c you have other bigger issues to worry about. And norton gears slidle so EP90 is best or a newer EP synthetic multi grade eg 80/90w.

I have no preference as to what other people use in their own gearboxes....They can obviously use whatever they choose. I was just pointing out that straight 50 grade engine oil was recommended and was absolutely suited to the job of oiling the gears and selector mechanism. The Norton gearbox by design does not generate extreme pressures so all the oil has to do is lubricate the metal parts, just like "ordinary engine oil" lubricates the highly stressed parts of an engine which also runs at very high temperatures that thins the oil to a much lower viscosity yet is still able to do its job... Do we use EP oils in engines no...yet we have extreme pressures generated in the cam to cam followers contact. Modern "straight" oils are also designed with much stronger anti wear additives that engine oils had in the 50's making them even better than before.

I agree with David Cooper (above) that EP oils REQUIRE extreme pressure and high local temperatures to activate their anti scuff additive, temperatures that are nowhere near being achieved in straight cut gear teeth that primarily roll. These additives when not working correctly can damage metal surfaces so if they aren't working, why use them?

Just to add, most modern Japanese motorcycle engines producing far greater amounts of power and with gear driven primary drives use, guess what, to lubricate their gearboxes?...Yes ENGINE oil....are you telling me the Japanese don't know what they are doing?

Obviously use what you choose, but when it comes to advising members they must have the full correct picture.

Les

Yep modern bikes share engine and gearbox oil, but usually synthetic and with far more regulars changes, particularly those used hard.

the best advice I would give is use either, more imp to keep the levels right and change it frequently.

With regards to Duckhams, I would change it and use another multigrade ( I use Morris 20/50 in my jubilee). I have ep80/90 in the gearbox!

The moral of the story is avoid oil threads ..... Now can anyone recommend what tyres I need?!

Dan

How do you know if an EP oil is yellow-metal friendly?

Paul

Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

EP 90 or 80/90 in the gearbox but use a good one and make sure it is yellow metal friendly.

If it says GL4 on the bottle it's ok.

dan

Over the years I have used all sorts of oils in my dommy. Comma HD 30 diesel was very cheap and in the shed so that was used ,no problem, then Castrol CRI 40 was in use in the aircool VW so that went in, Halfords sometimes have a special deal on Mobil 1 , I have tried Morris 20/50 which seems to get burnt a bit and smokes more than the 40 grade which is favourite as it also goes in the Ducati Bevel and Rudge, The thing is change it regularly particularly before a lay up.

Just a few other points regarding the Norton or AMC gearbox (No!... I hear you shout)

In top gear gear (4th) there is no load transmitted AT ALL via any gears apart from just idly spinning the layshaft. The 4th gear (slide gear) is locked together with the the 3rd gear cog next to it on the main shaft so the input and output shafts spin at the same speed and no transmission power is routed through any teeth of any cogs anywhere, (they just idly turn) so no pressure whatsoever is being generated let alone extreme pressure!*...Diagram below

The highest load generated is in 1st gear but the 1st gear cogs are much wider than 2nd and 3rd...this keeps the load proportionally the same in every intermediate gear and as said before the load at worst is not that great and very short lived...unlike car transmissions differentials and gearboxes with helical and hypoid teeth constantly loaded, used to create quiet running but less efficient and higher friction.

I would say that a straight engine oil with high ZDDP (SF or SG) additives would suit the Norton AMC box better and more safely than an EP type oil

And for those who think that gear box oil with it's 80 or 90 SAE rating is thicker than 50 grade engine oil (I used too!) look at the viscosity chart shown below: