Brake light

Hi Tony,

You are required by law to have a brake light. Any vehicle submitted for an MOTthat was made after 1936will fail if it doesn't have one but not if there are no lights at all.

From Wikipedia;

Lighting exemption

A vehicle that has no front- and rear-position lights fitted or has had those lights permanently removed, painted or masked-over is exempt from the lighting sections of the MOT test. An advisory note will provided on the VT32 as a reminder that the vehicle should only be used during daylight hours and not used at times of seriously reduced visibility.

This is sometimes incorrectly referred to as a "Daytime MOT", but there is no official distinction. It is The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations that prevent an unlit vehicle being used on the road after dark, not the MOT.

Yes, you can and will be fined if the vehicle is too loud. I think that comes under Construction and Use regulations.

Jim

Anthony, I believe that your Dommie does require a brake light but I'm not 100% with Jim.

Stop lights were indeed a requirement from 1936 but not applied in total until a date I have forgotten, but into the 1950's when from that point all new motor vehicles had to be fitted with them. 1954?

I'm sure Richard will confirm that WD 16H's were not originally fitted with stop lights and mine doesn't have one either and with a 30 W dynamo I have no intention of fitting one. We have hand signals for slowing down.

Previous to compulsorystop lights we had cyclemotors and small machines using direct lighting from a flywheel with barely enough current for the main lighting.

I was just going to say that your 57 Norton does not require an MOT and so it can't fail. I'm not sure if the boys in blue know what is legal, save for what speed you are doing? (Follow the money)

The 1936 law certainly exempted vehicles under 50CC or those capable of 25 mph or less. The general rule for MOT's is: If it is fitted it must be working and many 40's and 50's machines left the factory without brake lights. In fact the MOT was only introduced in 1960 for vehicles 10 years and older. There has to be consistency!

The daylight rules are a bit of a red herring and this, like trying to find Ethanol free petrol is a dogs dinner!

Simply put, if it has lights fitted they must work. If it has lights then at the age of your bike that must include a stop light.This is regardless of the need for an MOT test.

Forgetting speed and capacity exemptions then the only other exemption is for a machine first used (first used is the MOT manual wording) before 1st January 1936.

As Jim Royce said earlier there arenoiselimits for road going motorcycles, and again they apply even though they are not includedin the MOT test. Google is your friend in finding the information.

All of which begs the questions: -

Why would you want to consider riding without a brake light?

Why would you want to have a bike which is illegaly noisy?

i have thought of putting a high level stop light on the back of my helmet with a plug to disconnect it.lol. i like a loud exhaust some days and a quite one other days so here it is nothing new it was an idea out in the sixties this is my version. a cable operated exhaust muffler as fitted to my es2 it doesn't close right off for obvious reasons . Baz

The Lucas MT110 rear lamp fitted to the singles up until the early 1950s didn't have a brake light fitted but Norton did offer the facility as an option from the late 1930s. I'm not sure though which lamp body they used to incorporate the function.

Any late 1950s Dominator most certainly had one originally and should have one now. The daylight MOT exemption is awkward ground for avoiding problems in the event of a roadside check or a rear end accident. Apart from anything else, it isn't pleasant to ride in a group if some machines have no brake light.

If power drain is a worry then LEDs are the answer. I use one with a single wire in the MT110 fitting (the brake pedal switching a resistor in and out)

One of The Shropshire Branch members who was a Police Motorcycle Patrolman. runs a couple of road legal race type machines, a Manx and an International. Neither is fitted with lights apart from a brake light. I guess he would know what he could get away with.

Like many rules, and regulations, the stoplight question is interpreted differently according to who is doing the M.O.T. I once took a 1950 BSA B31 (restored to factory specification) for MOT, and this was initially refused, due to lack of a stoplight. Fortunately the bike had been bought new, by may late brother, and I had all the original paperwork. In 1950, a stop light was listed as an optional extra,and one had never been fitted. Since this was shown on the wiring diagram, the manager overruled the tester, and issued the MOT (the following week I fitted a stoplight anyway!). A 1957 Dominator would certainly have been fitted with a stoplight, from new, and, regardless of MOT requirements, could be classed as unroadworthy if not fitted and working. Perhaps Ethanol has got in the wiring, and dissolved the smoke!

Where I live, you have to have what it left the factory with. Nortons had brakelights in 1957.

I personally wouldnt consider riding a bike on the road without a brake light. My '50 model 7 did not come with one but a dual LED bulb & an aftermarket pull switch & easy pleasy. Mont motorists today do not understand hand signals, so I find them to be worthless (sadly). The LED bulb uses less wattage than the original tail lamp bulb & positive earth is not an issue with the correct bulb.

Loud pipes........ I dont care to hear them on public roads myself, fine on the track. Many differing opinions on that issue

i would fit a brake light theres nothing worse than following a car or bike when the brake lights are not working. just put the correct silencers on it suitable for pre 1983 bike then no worries. Baz

Loud pipes........ I dont care to hear them on public roads myself, fine on the track. Many differing opinions on that issue

When a bike has engine clatter and bad bearing noises, some sellers will install straight through mufflers (no baffles) to mask any problem.

I think we have established through common sense that the 57 Dommie requires a stop light because it was original equipment.

Plenty of earlier machines did not have a stop light. it is up to the owner if they wish to retro fit one. I can't really justify fitting a stop light to my 16H when it only goes out on nice days on mainly quiet roads for no more than a hundred or so miles in a year. But what if I used it at night? One brake in the wrong place with the headlight dimmed more than it already is! Is it worth the LED conversion for a few miles? That's why you might not fit one but if it were a regular mount, one might think again.

As for the loud exhaust: ever been nearly knocked down by an electric bus or an electric car reversing in a car park? The silent killer! Give me the noise anyday...

Talking about loud exhausts, isn't it sad that pattern silencers never sound as good as the original used to, To hear a A10 or a T110 with the correct Burgess silencers was a treat. John

Dunno - an A10 with goldie pattern silencers hammering through Glencoemay be a bit anti-social but the sound is just wonderful. Gordon.

The best A10 to go through Glencoe would be the Fairchild Republic A10 Thunderbolt (Warthog). Very quiet and deadly, bit like most BSA versions, quiet or deadly. Sorry, off thread for a mo.

Hey Neil, I got a good laugh at your post !

I drive a Ford Hybrid (love it) and have had people not hear me creeping up on them in parking lots, big fun!

I don't think any stock Norton muffler is in any danger of creeping up silently on anyone It just irritate me when we go through all the trouble to educate the public on how all motorcyclists are not Hells Agels & we just want respect on the road, then some disrespectfull fool blows by my house at midnight with open pipes on his American v-twin & shakes my windows. Jus juvenile. No problem on a racetrack, but no need in neighborhoods.

As to breaklights, the LED bulb, a twin lead bulb base, and a brake light switch are super cheap & will auctually reduce the electrical load on your (and my) classic bike, reducing the load on the dynamo. More importantly, a brake light makes you much more visable to the bloke behind you day, or night. I dont want someone not paying attension to run into my backside, so I will do whatever I can to do my part to reduce the chance of the occurance. The beauty of this is, it is cheap to do & doesent affect the look of the rear lamp.But those are just my thoughts & am sure there are many more!

Ride'em!

Nice to hear from you Skip,

The silent killers are a growing pest. Yesterday we had an electric bus explode and black smokeeverywhere. So much for clean transport!

Excessive noise is not a good thing in residential areas but the throb of a Norton in good tune is music to the ears.

I've not been out on my 16Hyet this year but I was thinking about it today. After the wet sump ritual of course! If I used it more I'd fit a stop lamp, believe me thoughIf the Greenies take away E0 petrol (gas) I won't be riding anyway.

Hi Neil,

have you installed the elusive bracket yet?

I love my Norton & the unique sound they make, not a fan of open meggas off the track. Love the electric vehicles also, especially the incredible horsepower & amazing torque curve (straight line really, no curve). The new electric Harley has been really well received, even though not yet available for purchase, just for demo rides & the Zero motorcycles are doing well "over here" in the USA

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

we might need to put playing cards in the spokes for noise like we did as kids

Perhaps the best of both worlds is steam engine bikes, low emissions, quiet, but still makes cool noise!

Skip

Previously Skip Brolund wrote:

Hi Neil,

have you installed the elusibe bracket yet?

I love my Norton & the unique sound they make, not a fan of open meggas off the track. Love the electric vehicles also, especially the incredible horsepower & amazing torque curve (straight line really, no curve). The new electric Harley has been really well recieved, even though not yet available for purchase, just for demo rides & the Zero motorcycles are doing well "over here" in the USA

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

we might need to put playing cards in the spokes for noise like we did as kids

Perhaps the best of both worlds is steam engine bikes, low emissions, quiet, but still makes cool noise!

Skip

Steam powered motorcycles? Perish the thought! We'd have to open the coal mines again.... trade unions would have a field day!

Mind you, it'd probably be cheaper to import Chinese coal, then HM Govt. could sell the mines to the French, who, using Polish and Latvian labour could sell the coal abroad.... providing the Russians let it through.

Any other good ideas?

Hi Skip, You affluent Americans might have used playing cards, to flap against the spokes on your pushbikes. In the post war years, in the UK, we made do with cigarette packets!