Best bike? Best in class? Or, how to upset people

I'd certainly support bifurcating all classes into Trailer Queens vs. the rest.

I'd also be in favour of a Rat Bike award (not least because I might actually have a chance at that, although not even that given the very well-used machines of our overseas friends).

Dominators did not have oil pipe clips ,not needed  due to the very low pressure in the pipes between tank and engine  . Air filters were optional extras on most models . Eliminating a machine because it has  factory  correct details !.  I am glad I don’t enter competitions , how frustrating . 

And there’s the problem, it’s all down to opinions, at the end of the day it’s the judges choice.  If you win, congratulate yourself, if you lose take it on the chin and try at the next one. Flipping heck  life is too short as it is! 

Dan

Ps Rat bike class would suit me, or a regular rider class. I show my Norton Metisse, but it gets regularly raced in the summer, haven’t won anything at a show yet!

Hi Dan, No opinions in my post ,only FACTS .  Look at the pictures of the bikes back in the day. If nearly everyone dolled their bikes up with checkered tape then it would be ok to eliminate those without the tape??. More honest to just pick your favorite bike  if you dont really know the subject.Those who really are experts would probably not want to do it due to the agro  you get from owners.    The best bike at Ardingly was surely the fabulous Inter.  But was it a ridden bike  or just an inanimate  ornament?. Would it make a difference?.

As the one who has 'selected' judges for a number of rallies over the last few years, I would like to explain who I select and what instruction they are given.

I will usually ask what they are on at the rally, if they say they are on a Rotary, I will probably get them to judge the singles. This tends to prevent the rivet counters getting over exited about what is as it came out of the factory, or a useful addition to improve safety, longevity or comfort. This is judging at a rally, not a concourse competition.

Secondly, I tell the judge, their reason for choosing a particular bike is purely a personal one and cannot be challenged, if they wish to explain then that is entirely up to them. This does produce some unusual winners. For example at an event in Suffolk, best commando was won by a well worn fastback that would normally never win, but as the judge said to me, it had obviously been used by an enthusiastic owner who was using it for the reason it was built all those years ago, to be ridden and enjoyed. Nothing was out of place, no untidy wiring, no rust, wear marks to show it had been used and just a gentle patina.

The look on the owners face to win best commando award was worth any criticism that came my way. By the way, Best In Show was won by a very nice, very shiny, better than new Commando 850 MkIII. And that owner was happy to.

I do not really like the idea of Trailer Queen. The judges are usually smart enough to spot something that has only done the walk from the trailer to the show area. If it is possible, we do try to have the judging somewhere away from the actual rally site, this was not possible at Aberfoyle.

I am always looking for judges at these events (This is why Peter 'volunteered'), so if you wish to step up at the next one to judge whatever class, using whatever criteria, then just talk to the organisers on or before they day, you will be very welcome.

had rubber hoses and crimped fittings to the metal pipes.  That's what I see on the bikes I look at, and the oil pipes on my own machine

Mind you, my very original bike (1955 Mod 88) would have been excluded from that concours, because it has no air filter.  I believe mine had an open short bell-mouth from new, but the image on Andover Norton's site home page shows a 1955 featherbed Dominator WITH an intake filter.  I asked them about a suitable slim air filter capable of fitting in the tight gap between carburettor and oil tank, and drew a blank.

Any suggestions?

Hi Paul, good look with finding a slim air filter. I have given up trying to find one for my slimline M50, so I would have been eliminated also!

Regards John O

When John Hudson was asked to judge the Nortons at various NOC rallies he would first eliminate any wearing stainless steel parts that were not fitted to the original machines. Next would be machines with non-original/standard parts. That cut down the competition straight away.

I had the mis-fortune to ride to the very wet Norton International Rally held in Eire in 2014. During the week of this rally it rained on 6 1/2 days. Around 80% of those attending had brought their Nortons on trailers, in vans or camper vans. Three Nortons from this group winning prizes for best bikes.  Twisting the knife was the fact that at least two and possibly all three of these Nortons were never ridden or even started their engines during that week. 

So what was the reward for riding a Norton to this rally? Those riding from the extremities of the UK must have been disappointed at not getting a 'mention in dispatches' for the longest soaking. 

This Rally, to my mind, confirming the two groups that the NOC now consists of. Enthusiasts and Collectors. Those who ride to events, in all weathers, and those who are just trophy hunting and not really interested in their Nortons that is moving under its own power.

Peter makes an important point about air filters.  But which to use?  If the original is unavailable, all we can do is fit those conical ones, based on K&N.  They need trimming to fit twin Norton carbs.  And do they need oiling?

I tried a foam Trials type on my Inter.  But with the pulses from a big cylinder pulling through one carburettor, the petrol spit back (and possibly the ethanol even in E5) started to dissolve it and it was getting blocked up.  The 16H has very little space for one.

And what is the effect on performance?  My guess is that it only really matters when on full throttle, so hill climbing and hard acceleration.  Adding a choke should mean rich running, so a smaller main jet perhaps?

My old ES2 owning friend claimed his air filter reduced fuel consumption, as any spit back was sucked back into the engine instead if being wasted.

Does anyone have positive experiences to add?  Perhaps in a new discussion thread?

(Ps...I can't yet work out how to copy and paste a message.. it vanishes after the 'copy' command...still trying....)

Hello David, I have just tried copying/pasting and it works OK. Simply highlight all of the text you want to copy and then press CTRL and 'C' together. Place the cursor where you want to paste the copied text and then press CTRL and 'V' together and it (should) paste the text.

I tend to use this all the time rather than any other copy/paste functions etc. as it seems more reliable.

The official line on air filters for many years was that they were not needed in our climate conditions, machines were not expected to last many years anyway . On my slimline DL i have a box filter bolted to the back of the oil tank using the inset thread mounts they all have ,I use a BL mini minor pleated paper filter suitably  modified and set in silicone mastic bed . It’s super efficient,very free flowing and protected from water by homemade rubber splashguards and it’s box , it’s cheap too. Combined with my use of fully synth oil it means my engine should be bullet proof till the rods go or the orriginal big ends wear out . I can’t say what happened after AMC started building twins but all the dommies came without oil pipe clips for at least 12 or 13 years  and did not need them .  

Just looking through Bacon's Norton Twins Restoration, and not a single one of any of the Dommies (not even a Dunstall special) has clips on any of its oil lines: feed, return or breather.

I do think they might be safer on the return, especially if a cartridge oil filter is fitted.  But that's another story.

Were they clipped or was lockwire required by rules on race bikes?

I suppose owners liked the belt and braces approach, and once the oil lines perished a bit and they had been on and off to allow oil tanks to be removed and washed out ,then a bit of extra security was welcomed, I did it myself but now with the fitting of an oil tap and the extra congestion in a small area I will leave the clips off , if only to wind up the nit pickers and event judges!!.Am considering the addition of checkered tape too, so that all the bikes not so adorned can be eliminated!!. 

Tony's explanation of his selection of, and instructions to, the judges at the rally is very helpful.

I interpret it in the following way: "the award is for what, at the time of judging, catches the eye of a randomly-selected enthusiast", which I think is entirely reasonable and sensible.

I do have a couple of suggestions:

1. if my interpretation is correct (i) retitle the award "the bike I would most like to take home with me" (ii) ensure that rally-goers get clear information that that is what the award is about.
2. get the judges to come to the mic and say a little about their choice (including, if they are wise, the observation that there were many other likeable machines).

David, I have copies of the 1930s War Office tests on Talflow air filters on the WD16H. Start a new thread and I'll post them up !