1929 Model 19 Engine Rebuilimi

Previously Mikael Ridderstad wrote:

Without knowing anything specific about model 19, some general thoughts about total loss systems. Volume of the oil tank compared to the fuel tank can give you a clue on oil consumption. The bike was designed so that you ran out of fuel before running out of oil. I guess at least two tanks of petrol before running out of oil. On the early flathead Harley (1930) was an additional handpump feeding oil directly into the crankcase. I used it going uphill when the motor had to work hard. When used, I got a tremendous cloud of smoke. The obvious effect of too little oil feed is seizure. Too much raises oil costs, can foul the plug and annoys motorists behind you. On the JAP speedway engine, if I remember correct, crank feed was about 1 to 2 drops per second. Top feed about half. So I think you shall start with quite much and then gradually lower oil feed until you get acceptable blue smoke and plug readings.

Hopefully I'll hear more about your 19 later. Now I leave room for the real Norton experts.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply, I guess if I go with excess oil feed I can always cut it back as you suggest. Will have to learn quickly once I start and ride the bike for the first time.

Cheers

Andy

Previously norman_lorton wrote:

Hi Andy

I run a 1923 16H and that requires me to hand pump the oil, whereas you have a mechanical pump, but the principle's the same. George Cohen described it well on his website.

There must be enough oil in the crankcase for the flywheels to pick it up and fling it everywhere Too much and it will come out of various places and be forced up past rings. Too little and it will overheat, the piston will tighten under load, then seize. You can normally detect this happening and stop in good time.

People talk about a cup full of oil (200ml) in the crankcase being correct but I found that was not enough. I start with 300ml. Then go for a 20 mile run, either pump by hand a one squirt per 5 miles, or set your mechanical pump to what you think might work. After the run drain the oil and measure it - if you still have 300ml then the right amount was added. More or less and adjust your added rate.

Even if you added nothing during the 20 miles you are unlikely to do any harm as you will still have quite a bit in there being picked up by the flywheels. I speak to people with hand pumps who think that the oil has to be added regularly during the run or something will fail, and that is nonsense.

Try adding more oil until it does come out when hot or starts smoking a lot, then you know the maximum. Just a bit less should be the optimum.

Norm

P.S. The engine may have seized previously for the simple reason that there was insufficient oil in the crankcase at the start? who knows?

I drain the oil after every 60-100 miles and refill with fresh 50 grade. It helps keep track of how much it is using, you can spot any new metal appearing and such a small volume picks up a lot of carbon contamination and is best discarded.

Hi Norm,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, your information is very helpful to someone who has not yet ridden one of these types of bikes.

I will add the amount of oil to the timing side so that it will start to flow into the crankcase and add the extra 300ml.

Then set the flow of the pump to the highest level and monitor what happens and adjust as it goes.

The siezure whch happened twice for the former owner is in part I think due to the conrod being nearly 3mm off centre, I am going to fully strip and set up the motor from scratch so hopefully this will fix the problem.

Thanks again,

Cheers

Andy

Previously norman_lorton wrote:

Andy

While the engine is apart you could do a simple experiment to see how much oil is best is the crankcase. Just put the crank assembly in the cases, nip them up, then pour oil in until it picks up on a rotating flywheel. That volume will be the absolute minimum. I would guess another 150cc would be needed to get flung about and drain back.

Norm

Hi Norm,

I will give that a g0, heading of overseas for 10 days then will get stuck into the motor when I get back, I will try what you suggested.

Thanks

Andy