ES2 rear brake drum studs

Mechanical solutions could include pinning alongside the stud shoulder. Dunstall did something similar to stop the outer race of main bearings in crankcases from rotating. Possibly 3 pins at roughly equidistant spacing would be better then a single pin.

Plan B would be brazing the stud in place. Plan C which is what I have successfully done before, would be to use disimilar welding rods to arc weld the studto the cast steel drum.

The problem with the design is that once the sleeve nuts come slightly loose (which they often do) the alternating forces from the drive / overrun cause a cantilevering force where they're joined to the brake drum. Worse still, especially with the earlier cotton reel type hubs, the conical seats for the sleeve nuts wear meaning you can never get them properly tight without somehow remachining the seats.

WRT the original query I would probably go with mig welding the studs in place. ISTR that the originals I had on my Model 18 many years ago were splined and a drive fit into the drum.

George,

These studs have threads on both ends, with a central shoulder to register it in place. The end that screws into the drum has a concave cone which is then splayed (rivetted) to hold it securely in place.

Somewhere in my spares I have some NOS that I discovered at an autojumble. I'll dig them out and take a photo this weekend.

Phil Ham.

George,

I've rummaged my spares and eventually found the studs. I realize that my photo doesn't show the concave cone in the end, but I think you'll understand the principle. I can always take another photo tomorrow.

I've noticed that an old spare drum has had some work done to try and splay the cone more where it has become loose, then some welding was employed to hold the stud in place.

Phil.

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Previously George Phillips wrote:

Thanks Phil. Pity they didn't give some means of really tightening the studs.

G

George, the cone end needs swaging out with a large hammer / punch so that it effectively rivets the stud in place. Not particularly technical, but must have been used since Norton introduced this type of sprocket / brake drum, so was a accepted practice at the time. I don't expect Norton, or any other manufacturer were designing machines to last 60 years or more!

I'm sure they would advocate the use of thread lock these days, as well as the big hammer!

Phil.

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George, I have just replaced my studs. I tightened two nuts against each other and screwed the stud into the brake drum as tight as possible. Then I heated the stud on the inside to red with oxy acetylene torch and riveted over with a ballpein hammer they don't come loose after that!

George, That wont work! and when the screw falls out it could lock up your back wheel as it will be rattling around inside with the brakes...

George,

If we can exchange contact details without puttingpersonal details on the forum I'll send you a replacement stud (FOC).

Phil Ham.

Previously George Phillips wrote:

Any luck with my email, Phil? I sent it via the NOC website.

George

George,

Message received and reply sent. For some reason the NOC website uses an old email address even though I've updated my profile!

Phil.

I doubt if Norton heated the studs. Had they done so, I'm sure it would have changed their colour. I have a new drum in the shed, and the backs of the studs are swaged out with no sign of heat. And who knows how much that might stress relieve and change the shape of the drum?

If the bolts are a high strength grade, they will be heat treated (hardened and tempered), and if you heat them up they'll lose their temper and therefore half their strength. But I've no idea what they are made of.

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I'm sorry I just don't know really. But modern wheel studs are usually 'grade 8.8' from what I can see on the ever-unreliable web, and that is certainly heat treated.

As you say it would take some clout. And the other side of the stud would need support, maybe in a hole in a thick walled steel tube bearing on the shoulder of the stud? Or with a stack of nuts on the stud? Or a spare sleeve nut?

The handbooks I have don't say anything on the subject. I suppose the drum itself is 'disposable' in the sense that it carries the sprocket teeth (at the rear anyway).

For what it's worth, I'd try Phillip Moss idea using double nuts but with Loctite and cold swaging. I cold rivetted a new brake anchor on my front brake plate (which is steel in alloy) and it must be similar size. If it is mild steel it should be easy to rivetcold, and if it is high tensile heat treated then I don't think it should be cooked.

Could these be braised to secure them?, I have a memory of having a loose stud ,but I think the threads were intact .