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Very unhappy customer

Am I allowed to name names? If not, I apologise and leave it to the judgement of our excellent elves.

Back in April I bought a pair of unbalanced downpipes from Norvil (063375A EXHAUST PIPES - UPSWEPT TYPE - UNBALANCED - PAIR - 1 3/8") for my MKIIA 850. At first, I was waiting for a pair of silencers to return from rechroming before fitting the downpipes. Then I spent most of July concentrating on a transmission rebuild. At last, yesterday seemed a good day to fit the downpipes, and the silencers that had now arrived. The downpipes didn't fit. The flange that enters the threaded exhaust port was too big, about 2mm bigger in diameter than the flange on the pipes I was intending to replace, and would not enter the head.

I wondered, are these downpipes faulty, or did I order the wrong ones? Perhaps at this point someone can answer that question for me. Anyway, I phoned Norvil to inquire, and was told repeatedly that my only option was to call Les Emery between 4 and 5 pm. It was like talking to an android, or an employee of Rupert Murdoch â I've had that experience too.

These pipes cost me £91.42 plus VAT and P&P. I can't use them, except by maybe taking an angle grinder to the flanges, which would be very hit-and-miss. Whether parts that I've already bought from Norvil are faulty or merely wrong, and therefore my own fault, doesn't seem to me to be the sort of technical question for which I ought to queue up to talk to Les. The person I spoke to admitted that I might not find it easy to talk to Les, depending on how busy he is. Again, someone here might be able to advise me on that. I said that it didn't seem to be a good way of doing business, in terms of customer satisfaction and goodwill. I also made sure that the person I spoke to had my phone number, and asked would somebody please call me back in a day or two. Again I was told that my only option was to try to talk to Les.

As things stand, like The Times, I hope very much that I never find myself wanting to order anything from Norvil ever again. I wonder, is this a common experience? Has anyone had a similarly frustrating experience, either with these particular downpipes or with Norvil more generally? Did I order the wrong size downpipes? TIA

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Previously Colin Peterson wrote:

Am I allowed to name names? If not, I apologise and leave it to the judgement of our excellent elves.

Back in April I bought a pair of unbalanced downpipes from Norvil (063375A EXHAUST PIPES - UPSWEPT TYPE - UNBALANCED - PAIR - 1 3/8") for my MKIIA 850. At first, I was waiting for a pair of silencers to return from rechroming before fitting the downpipes. Then I spent most of July concentrating on a transmission rebuild. At last, yesterday seemed a good day to fit the downpipes, and the silencers that had now arrived. The downpipes didn't fit. The flange that enters the threaded exhaust port was too big, about 2mm bigger in diameter than the flange on the pipes I was intending to replace, and would not enter the head.

I wondered, are these downpipes faulty, or did I order the wrong ones? Perhaps at this point someone can answer that question for me. Anyway, I phoned Norvil to inquire, and was told repeatedly that my only option was to call Les Emery between 4 and 5 pm. It was like talking to an android, or an employee of Rupert Murdoch â I've had that experience too.

These pipes cost me £91.42 plus VAT and P&P. I can't use them, except by maybe taking an angle grinder to the flanges, which would be very hit-and-miss. Whether parts that I've already bought from Norvil are faulty or merely wrong, and therefore my own fault, doesn't seem to me to be the sort of technical question for which I ought to queue up to talk to Les. The person I spoke to admitted that I might not find it easy to talk to Les, depending on how busy he is. Again, someone here might be able to advise me on that. I said that it didn't seem to be a good way of doing business, in terms of customer satisfaction and goodwill. I also made sure that the person I spoke to had my phone number, and asked would somebody please call me back in a day or two. Again I was told that my only option was to try to talk to Les.

As things stand, like The Times, I hope very much that I never find myself wanting to order anything from Norvil ever again. I wonder, is this a common experience? Has anyone had a similarly frustrating experience, either with these particular downpipes or with Norvil more generally? Did I order the wrong size downpipes? TIA

email Norvil, give the above details and ask for a prompt reply.

I am sure that Les will reply and would hope that a satisfactory conclusion will result,but if the reply is not forthcoming or unsatisfactory, then invoke the sale of goods act on the grounds that the parts are not of merchantable quality and not fit for purpose. Final resort is the small claims court.

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Previously Charles Bovington wrote:

email Norvil, give the above details and ask for a prompt reply.

I am sure that Les will reply and would hope that a satisfactory conclusion will result,but if the reply is not forthcoming or unsatisfactory, then invoke the sale of goods act on the grounds that the parts are not of merchantable quality and not fit for purpose. Final resort is the small claims court.

Thanks for the tip Charles â I'm going to cool off by spending the day tinkering with my carbs, then later or tomorrow I'll probably do as you suggest. What really got me is that I know from long experience that this is the sort of problem that a reputable trader would normally be happy to look into. Why should Norvil be any different? Cheers.

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The RGM supplied unbalanced set fitted to my MK2A measures 46.35mm on the flange, the ID if the thread in the head is 47.12mm.

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Colin, if it's any consolation I've recently had a similar 'problem' with replacement downpipes. In my case I think the pipes were fine and my bike probably had replacement threads in the exhaust port. However, I did use a dremel type tool to slowly and gently grind down the circumference of the flange. It worked perfectly.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

The RGM supplied unbalanced set fitted to my MK2A measures 46.35mm on the flange, the ID if the thread in the head is 47.12mm.

Exactly the sort of info I need and I hadn't even asked for it, thank you John! The flange on my Norvil pipes measures 48.26mm, almost exactly the same difference between my Norvil pipes and your RGMs as I'd guesstimated between my Norvils and the ones on the bike! And clearly way too big for the ID of the thread in the head. Well, I must count my blessings â the bike's running very nicely, there's great help to be had from this forum, and I can go for a ride in a bit. As for Norvil ... We shall see. Cheers.

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Previously ian_emerson wrote:

Colin, if it's any consolation I've recently had a similar 'problem' with replacement downpipes. In my case I think the pipes were fine and my bike probably had replacement threads in the exhaust port. However, I did use a dremel type tool to slowly and gently grind down the circumference of the flange. It worked perfectly.

Thanks Ian, I also note your mention that your supplier was different. I do have replacement threads in my exhaust ports, but they take the original nut (in my case 06.3988 I think, but I don't know how it compares re 'long' or 'short'), so the ports' ID must be as original. With your experience in mind, I'm now thinking that it shouldn't be beyond my ability to remove 2mm from the diameter of the flange, and, PITA though that might be, it would probably be less stressful than getting into a fight with Norvil. Seeing as I do actually have new pipes, I just need to make them fit. If I do work on the pipes myself, I shall be left with the view that I need to avoid Norvil like the effing plague! But they ought to be told ... I do not appreciate being made to feel like a serf who has to go begging cap in hand for leave to speak to his master â f**k that! Hey ho. Thanks again.

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At the risk of looking foolish in public I also should flag up that when I fitted my nice new pipes and lined everything up, I tightened them again once everything was warmed up and of course the torque must have moved the pipes in the port slightly. I now have a lovely scrape down the chrome where the kick start caught the pipe. You probably have more sense to check than me but if not, hopefully this will prompt you to check. Hope it helps.

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Previously ian_emerson wrote:

At the risk of looking foolish in public I also should flag up that when I fitted my nice new pipes and lined everything up, I tightened them again once everything was warmed up and of course the torque must have moved the pipes in the port slightly. I now have a lovely scrape down the chrome where the kick start caught the pipe. You probably have more sense to check than me but if not, hopefully this will prompt you to check. Hope it helps.

Ah yes, no need to feel foolish, I think most of us will make that sort of mistake from time to time! I remember something like that happening on a bike of mine once, I just don't remember which one, so guilty as charged over here! While I'm pondering what to do with my pipes (I think I know) I'm leaving off the lockwire and checking for tightness after each ride, it only takes a mo. Cheers!

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i rang norvil some time ago asking a question about my triton slider and which one would sort my front wheel centralizing problem the chap on the phone mumbled a bit and after a while came back with i don't know why people like you have to mess then a pause then i was told the info i needed. went to collect my goods to be greeted with a short sharp other end of the counter you will get served there. stood there ten minutes then eventually got served that was my first and last visit.

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Colin. If you don't inform Norvil of the problem, and get the grinder out instead, not only will you do yourself a dis-service by grinding through the nice shiny chrome, which will no doubt peel off from that area outwards over time, but Norvil will continue to send out these faulty pipes to others, no doubt oblivious to the fact that their supplier has messed up.

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Previously Barry Carson wrote:

i rang norvil some time ago asking a question about my triton slider and which one would sort my front wheel centralizing problem the chap on the phone mumbled a bit and after a while came back with i don't know why people like you have to mess then a pause then i was told the info i needed. went to collect my goods to be greeted with a short sharp other end of the counter you will get served there. stood there ten minutes then eventually got served that was my first and last visit.

Hmm, why doesn't that surprise me? Sounds like you spoke to the same bloke I did. After telling me I needed to speak to Les, he left me hanging for a while, and then said I'd faded out, as though he was surprised I was still there. About as helpful as a poke in the eye.

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Previously ian_cordes wrote:

Colin. If you don't inform Norvil of the problem, and get the grinder out instead, not only will you do yourself a dis-service by grinding through the nice shiny chrome, which will no doubt peel off from that area outwards over time, but Norvil will continue to send out these faulty pipes to others, no doubt oblivious to the fact that their supplier has messed up.

Yes Ian, you're right, Norvil need to be told. And the chrome might well peel. I only hesitate because I have very low tolerance for this kind of stress these days. But I have an email half-written, maybe I'll finish it tomorrow. Thanks.

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hello this has happenedto me right-hand side pipe went under the bike and was look on wherenear fitting my silencers On my 650 so I just told them they did not fitand I am sendingthem back and I did get my moneyback to it's not only exhaustpipes at does not fit its other parts too I now shop elsewere yours anna j

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Colin,

To add more to the 'return them' case, if you modify them and then when you fit them find alignment on the bike is poor (not uncommon with effectively pattern pipes), you will have invalidated any warranty and your right to return.

You clearly have pipes that are not fit for purpose, so it should be an automatic, no quibble (but maybe patronising) refund or replacement. I would certainly insist on any return postage cost being refunded too, if not offered - why should you be out of pocket because of faulty goods?

Regards,

Andy

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Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

hello this has happenedto me right-hand side pipe went under the bike and was look on wherenear fitting my silencers On my 650 so I just told them they did not fitand I am sendingthem back and I did get my moneyback to it's not only exhaustpipes at does not fit its other parts too I now shop elsewere yours anna j

Thanks anna j, at least you got your money back, that's something â and to know I'm not alone in this, I'm grateful! My estimation of Norvil has taken a nosedive lately. Apart from the present debacle, and evident customer service issues, I recently ordered a new set of front isolastic rubbers from them, purely because the bike wears Norvil's adjustable isos from years ago. I ordered by phone to be sure I got the right part. When it arrived I checked and saw first that by part number it's a straight swap with the MKIII front iso rubbers, and second that it looked very cheap and nasty compared to the Only Genuine Source's item â or at least their photo of it. The Norvil part's in now, but if I ever need another one I won't be planning on getting it from them. Cheers.

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Thanks Paul, Andy and Dan â so it looks like I'm not the only one avoiding Norvil from here on in, and I shall send an email tomorrow. Of course, I shall post here about however this gets (or doesn't get) resolved. I really appreciate the posts on this subject, thanks all.

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A chap who lives local to me and hasbeen involved with Nortons, literallyall his life ashis dadhad a local dealership in the 1950's, warned me off Norvil some months ago. I've thought about using Norvil in the past but have never purchased anything. I eamailed once with a query and waited well over a week for a reply, then when it eventually arrived I'd have been better off asking our cocker spaniel for all the good it was. After reading the above comments regarding Norvil, I think I'll stick with RGM (local to me), Andoverand Feked. Good service and advice from all.

John

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Previously John Sunderland wrote:

A chap who lives local to me and hasbeen involved with Nortons, literallyall his life ashis dadhad a local dealership in the 1950's, warned me off Norvil some months ago. I've thought about using Norvil in the past but have never purchased anything. I eamailed once with a query and waited well over a week for a reply, then when it eventually arrived I'd have been better off asking our cocker spaniel for all the good it was. After reading the above comments regarding Norvil, I think I'll stick with RGM (local to me), Andoverand Feked. Good service and advice from all.

John

Interesting, I'd never heard of Feked! I shall try to remember the name. I was just reminiscing over how pleasant it used to be, many years ago, phoning Mick and Angela Hemmings for parts and advice. They were unfailingly charming, and invoices that arrived with parts always had some merry personal message written on them. Happy days, a shame they no longer have a shop, although I discovered recently that they remain perfectly charming! Cheers.

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faked...I bought a few bits last year. unfortunately I ordered the wrong A/r springs for my distributor. only a few pence.

I e mailed to explain my error and asked if they had the correct ones.

No reply was ever received.

I was not complaining nor did I want to send the incorrect parts back.

Needless to say I have ordered nothing further.

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Are Norvil any worse than, say, Armours in this respect? Or even RK Leighton the seat maker? With Armours and Leighton I have had poor, not to say surly service when I have complained of ill-fitting parts.

I'm not making excuses for Norvil but at least they do stock a huge range of the more obscure parts for Nortons so they still get my trade from time to time. As indeed does Armours.

If you want real customer service, buy an Enfield and use Hitchcock's.

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I'm pretty sure that most exhaust pipe and silencers sold in this country by other retailers are manufactured by Armours...

As far as the oversized flanges...if this is all that is wrong you are lucky but then again untill fitted you won't know.

I would decide if the shape look likely to be OK then reduce the diameter of the flange....but NOT with an angle grinder!!

You could either file this down quite quickly (wrap tape around the pipe to protect the chrome should you wander off with the file).

OR...Simply get someone to help you and use a bench grinder. Hold the exhaust in a rigidly supported fist near the grinding wheel and have someone turn and rotate the exhaust pipe so the pipe turns smoothly slipping round in the hand at a constant distant as you move the flange inwards to contact the grinding wheel. Doing it this way will accurately remove an even amount all the way round in about a minute for each one...Dead easy....much easier than having the hassle of sending the pipes back by post... and then buying other pipes SIMILARLY not likely to fit perfectly as you might have hoped.....Wink....Les

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Previously les_howard wrote:

I'm pretty sure that most exhaust pipe and silencers sold in this country by other retailers are manufactured by Armours...

As far as the oversized flanges...if this is all that is wrong you are lucky but then again untill fitted you won't know.

I would decide if the shape look likely to be OK then reduce the diameter of the flange....but NOT with an angle grinder!!

You could either file this down quite quickly (wrap tape around the pipe to protect the chrome should you wander off with the file).

OR...Simply get someone to help you and use a bench grinder. Hold the exhaust in a rigidly supported fist near the grinding wheel and have someone turn and rotate the exhaust pipe so the pipe turns smoothly slipping round in the hand at a constant distant as you move the flange inwards to contact the grinding wheel. Doing it this way will accurately remove an even amount all the way round in about a minute for each one...Dead easy....much easier than having the hassle of sending the pipes back by post... and then buying other pipes SIMILARLY not likely to fit perfectly as you might have hoped.....Wink....Les

I notice RGM sell pipes by Wassell ... I'm afraid the bench-grinder method would be the stuff of dreams for me, but thanks for laying it out. I could do the file method. But then I'd worry about the chrome peeling. And Norvil do need to be told. I'm planning on sending them an email about it today. Cheers.

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Previously Gordon Johnston wrote:

Are Norvil any worse than, say, Armours in this respect? Or even RK Leighton the seat maker? With Armours and Leighton I have had poor, not to say surly service when I have complained of ill-fitting parts.

I'm not making excuses for Norvil but at least they do stock a huge range of the more obscure parts for Nortons so they still get my trade from time to time. As indeed does Armours.

If you want real customer service, buy an Enfield and use Hitchcock's.

Interesting about Armours, given that they've been making pipes since who knows when, and I've certainly bought pipes from them before, upwards of 30 years ago. Customer service is out there, it just seems to be more hit-and-miss. Cheers.

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Armours out source their pipe bending and customer service is non existent as I found to my cost, I hope they are not the main UK supplier.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

Armours out source their pipe bending and customer service is non existent as I found to my cost, I hope they are not the main UK supplier.

Armours has changed then, since I last bought anything from them. I noticed RGM offers pipes from Wassell ...

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Perhaps, Colin, you could report back on the response you get from Norvil? It may be that they are nice as pie and all the adverse comments above disappear like sound up a silencer! George
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Previously George Phillips wrote:
Perhaps, Colin, you could report back on the response you get from Norvil? It may be that they are nice as pie and all the adverse comments above disappear like sound up a silencer! George
Oh yes indeed George, as I said previously I'll post here about how this does or doesn't get resolved. At this point, all I know is that the person I spoke to on the phone was about as helpful as a poke in the eye, and as you suggest it might all end happily ever after. I emailed Norvil at 12:13 today describing the problem but also mentioning the response I got on the phone â both do need addressing. But I'd like nothing better than for Mr Emery or whoever to pour oil on this troubled water. No response to my email yet so I wait. Cheers.
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Sadly the problem with Norvil is that their customer service is unpredictable, Les can be very helpful or treat one like a complete numpty, after experiencing the numpty treatmentNorvil dropped down my call sequence when looking for parts.

I've had parts that didn't fit from both Norvil & Andover, both have dealt efficiently withproblems when communicated. It is a pita, but should be reported as they can be batch problems.

Andover have consistently been friendly & helpful so they are always my first port of call, followed by Mick & Angie or RGM.

Mike (the experience of others my differ)

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Previously mike_sullivan wrote:

Sadly the problem with Norvil is that their customer service is unpredictable, Les can be very helpful or treat one like a complete numpty, after experiencing the numpty treatmentNorvil dropped down my call sequence when looking for parts.

I've had parts that didn't fit from both Norvil & Andover, both have dealt efficiently withproblems when communicated. It is a pita, but should be reported as they can be batch problems.

Andover have consistently been friendly & helpful so they are always my first port of call, followed by Mick & Angie or RGM.

Mike (the experience of others my differ)

Well, I've now communicated with Les Emery, and I'm just waiting for final advice. The first response I got was very dusty, and included an insinuation that the pipes I'd bought might not really be his. However, we quickly established that I must somehow have mis-read my gauge, which he and I now agree reads 1.85" across the flange. Maybe I need new reading glasses. Also, he checked all his stock and found that they read the same â I don't doubt his word on that, and it's appreciated. Further, I've checked the ID of an exhaust port on my bike and (if I'm right) it measures a bit less than 1.85"/47mm! So maybe re-threading is at the root of this apparent mismatch after all ... If so, both the nuts and the pipes must have been reduced in diameter at the same time, and not a dickybird about it ... Perhaps there's some prescience in RGM supplying pipes with flanges 46.35mm across â that would just about fit my exhaust port!

So far then, apart from my apparent inability to read my own gauge, it seems to me that it's customer service issues that have set this thread off. Les has said nothing to me about that, since suggesting in his first response that I was proposing to take him away from what he ought to be doing. I pointed out that I could have been called back at any time by anybody, or told to email â tbh, I don't think I'd have started this thread in the way I did if I had been â as I say though, nothing yet on that, and I hope I'm wrong but i've a feeling that's how it'll stay. I could say more, but Mike I think you have it about right.

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I have a Combat head and the repaired port (not my repair so repairer unknown) is 46.70 mm and the un-repaired one 46.97mm. At 1.85" its too close to my 47.12 mm for comfort as its 5 thou of clearance plus would not fit the combat head on the repaired side and fit with difficulty on the un-repaired side.

On the other side of the MK2A head repaired by Mick Hemmings the port is 47.03 mm and the exhaust flange is 46.30 mm.

Interestingly the flared end OD on the original balanced set (source unknown) for the spherical seat is 40.7 mm, and the flange on the spherical seat (RGM sourced from memory but could be wrong) is 46.3mm which matches the flange of the RGM unbalanced set.

The balanced set is really rusty but it never cracked in all the years I had it fitted, kept them in case, might get them ceramic coated one day.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

I have a Combat head and the repaired port (not my repair so repairer unknown) is 46.70 mm and the un-repaired one 46.97mm. At 1.85" its too close to my 47.12 mm for comfort as its 5 thou of clearance plus would not fit the combat head on the repaired side and fit with difficulty on the un-repaired side.

On the other side of the MK2A head repaired by Mick Hemmings the port is 47.03 mm and the exhaust flange is 46.30 mm.

Interestingly the flared end OD on the original balanced set (source unknown) for the spherical seat is 40.7 mm, and the flange on the spherical seat (RGM sourced from memory but could be wrong) is 46.3mm which matches the flange of the RGM unbalanced set.

The balanced set is really rusty but it never cracked in all the years I had it fitted, kept them in case, might get them ceramic coated one day.

Interesting, thanks for sharing â so, lots of variation then. Now you've got me wondering about putting the pipes I have on ebay and getting a balanced pair from RGM â but it would probably break the bank, after my recent gearbox adventures! Unless I've missed something, among the usual suspects only RGM offer the balanced set.

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The RGM balanced set is made by Wassell, my balanced set is from many years ago and do not know who made them, when I rang RGM Roger tried to put me off buying the balanced set even though he has them in stock as they are for MK3 not MK2a (different shape to clear primary) and pushed me to unbalanced. Andover Norton have balanced set under test for MK2a, provided they don't crack then they will put them into production.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

The RGM balanced set is made by Wassell, my balanced set is from many years ago and do not know who made them, when I rang RGM Roger tried to put me off buying the balanced set even though he has them in stock as they are for MK3 not MK2a (different shape to clear primary) and pushed me to unbalanced. Andover Norton have balanced set under test for MK2a, provided they don't crack then they will put them into production.

Thanks John, yes I'd noticed that the RGM balanced pipes are by Wassell, very useful info that the profile is for the MKIII, would probably look very wrong on a MKIIA then. Fascinating that Andover Norton have a balanced set for the MKIIA under test â I wonder, would it be worth pointing out to them that there are many heads out there now with re-threaded exhaust ports, and that it might be beneficial to all if the flanges on the downpipes were made to reflect reduced internal diameters?! If they haven't thought of it already. As you've probably seen, this does seem to be the case for me. I'm sorry I'm not an engineer, I'm just a bloke who wants to replace some tatty old pipes! Wink

Of course I could have those old pipes re-plated, but summer's almost gone, my Norton is my only ride, and I believe re-plating would be a lot dearer ...

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No need for AN to alter the pipes, the spherical pipe has an OD of 40.7mm not 47.0mm, its the spherical seat that the pipe rests on inside the head that needs to be well under the 47mm which both of mine are. Even though I used an unbalanced set I still use the sphericalseat inside the head as it allows you to move the pipe around enough to get the kickstart to clear properly. I suspect the pipe maker of your pipes just used 47mmso he could use std material hence cheaper.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

No need for AN to alter the pipes, the spherical pipe has an OD of 40.7mm not 47.0mm, its the spherical seat that the pipe rests on inside the head that needs to be well under the 47mm which both of mine are. Even though I used an unbalanced set I still use the sphericalseat inside the head as it allows you to move the pipe around enough to get the kickstart to clear properly. I suspect the pipe maker of your pipes just used 47mmso he could use std material hence cheaper.

Hmm, I've never dealt with that setup, so feel a bit lost with the details. Les E's final advice is to re-cut the exhaust port threads ... Easier said than done for me, plus I've no idea how deeply any insert can be cut nor how it's secured in the port, unless it's welded up and cut from there. From where I'm sitting, it could be a good idea, or it could be a disaster. I think for now I'm just going to try filing down the flanges on the pipes I've got. If the chrome starts peeling I suspect it'll be years before it bothers me, by which time Andover Norton might be on stream with their MKIIA balanced pipes and I might be a**ed to try again.

So, in the end I'm deeply less than chuffed with this whole experience, but the worst of it, I think, boils down to having someone with very poor people skills answer the phone at Norvil. Les's initial gruffness didn't help, but he did try.

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Les is on the funny juice suggesting you re-cut the head thread, these wearing out is a known issue (both my heads have repaired ports) so you need as much thread engagement as possible.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

Les is on the funny juice suggesting you re-cut the head thread, these wearing out is a known issue (both my heads have repaired ports) so you need as much thread engagement as possible.

Even given that I already have thread inserts (apparently) that appear to be smaller diameter than original? To be fair, I think he's suggesting any inserts/welding-up has enough meat to cut back to original. For my part, it's just not an idea I trust â nor would I trust myself to do it! I'm quite happy cutting smaller, what you might call everyday threads, but I fear the head threads would be way beyond my very limited equipment and stamina. And I expect at least 2 taps would be needed, to start and finish? The bank's already had enough of a hit.

I appreciate what you're saying though, all posts are appreciated, plus I had the threads fixed many, many moons ago and well remember what a PITA they can be. I just can't remember whether it was inserts or welding-up ...? I can't help thinking studs, plenty of copper-impregnated grease and pipe clamps would be a better way forward. That was the setup on a Kawasaki Z650 I had in the early '80s, it was a breeze. Any further changes on my Norton would be a long way down the road for me though â fingers crossed! Cheers.

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Even given that I already have thread inserts (apparently) that appear to be smaller diameter than original?

If you have undersize inserts why do your exhaust roses fit. What we have not seen in this thread is the size of the exhaust post as it left the factory. Regardless the flange on your set and Ian's set come from the same exhaust pipe maker and they are wrong on the flange size at 47.0mm. Why would AN be supplying spherical seats at 46.3mm and RGM's exhaust suppliers supplying normal flanges at 46.3mm if that was not the right size for a flange.
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Good points â I'd previously wondered about the roses, calling them nuts, how if the port's ID was reduced then the pipe would have to have been turned down to fit, and the rose replaced or re-sized too. But I'm pretty sure I'd remember if I had new roses, and the pipes are definitely the ones that were on the bike when I bought it in 1998. Something doesn't add up, and what you say makes a lot of sense.

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Question. If one buys by Credit Card and the goods are crap ; does the card company bear a bit of responsibility ?

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Question. If one buys by Credit Card and the goods are crap ; does the card company bear a bit of responsibility ?

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Previously andy_chetwood wrote:

Question. If one buys by Credit Card and the goods are crap ; does the card company bear a bit of responsibility ?

According to The Money Saving Expert :- Yes

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Only if you spent over £100, below its not covered but I have claimed below £100 and got it back but many years ago.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

Armours out source their pipe bending and customer service is non existent as I found to my cost, I hope they are not the main UK supplier.

Going back: Two exhaust pipes inc. VAT = £100 plus.

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The pipes I have cost £91.42 plus VAT for the pair, so well over £100 â £109.70? Thing is, I'm simply not up for a fight with Mr Emery over this â he insists that 1.85" (46.99mm) is correct for the diameter across the flange, and moreover that Andover Norton only 'pretend' to have a licence to make Norton Commando parts. I've heard about that friction somewhere before, many years ago. Given the man's history, I just don't want to go there â I'd rather pull teeth, or, erm, file flanges. I'm not being defeatist, I just genuinely don't have the stamina, as I've mentioned before, or the tolerance for that kind of stress ... Thanks for the thought, though â in another life, maybe.

 

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