Motorcyclist engineering skills now being lost

New members have spoken of this - many (most?) of us acquired lots of background knowledge from friends and family over a long period of time, and we don't always appreciate that what we take for granted is not knowledge we were born with. Sadly I think we just have to get used to the fact that most people know nothing about doing anything technical, and don't much care as a consequence. There aren't even any DIY programmes on TV - H&S fears and heavy-handed legislation have largely killed it off. I reckon Esther Rantzen has a lot to answer for: her successful campaign to make manufacturers to fit electric plugs totally alienated the next generations from any concept that they, too, can do something vaguely technical.

Branch workshops might well be at least some help. Maybe next time the engine is out you/I/we might volunteer! Not easy to see how that would work...

The "Men in sheds" organisation is slowly growing, caters for mostly older lonely guys usually doing woodwork projects. It would be good if there could be a spinoff "Men in workshops" . Cost of equipment and "Elfansafely" would likely be a problem.

Health and safety has got naff all to do with it. It is the core skills being lost, grinders, metal spinners, pattern makers, welders, polishers etc. The attitude of the young these days is not mechanically minded. Grinders can earn over 50K these days, a welder £300.00 / day but it is not attractive enough for them to do it. Industry is very nearly at the point it will loose these skills totally as the ones that could teach them are either very old or have already passed away. Men in sheds maybe, but how many of these can or have the facility to bend sand filled weld sealed pipe, make pie crust tanks etc. Once the new comers are in place to be trained, then health and safety will apply.

Some years ago I decided that I could use some help (self employed ) and thought It would be good for a teenager (who I Knew would be unemployable otherwise) to help me and learn a trade. It was unworkable due to the cost of Insurances, PAYE requirements etc. Recently I have persuaded my 50 year old son to try to do some welding for me and he has really enjoyed the learning process and has fixed my stands that have been useless for years. If I can make the space I will get a lathe and hopefully get one of the boys interested.

As well as old motorcycles, I am also interested in model engineering so my workshop facilities can be used for both hobbies. I belong to a small model engineering club in Mid Sussex. We have a good albeit old selection of milling machines and lathes and membership is ridiculously cheap but, like many other similar clubs, membership is an decline. There is no interest. Taking on young people is not really an option because of the necessary supervision and health and safety requirements especially when even the core skills are not taught at school. I am not sure of the way forward.

A few years ago when my kids were in school they did "design technology". The school got rid of all of the metalworking machinery because the curriculum stated that students simply needed to understand what the machines looked like and the hazards associated with using them. Crazy.

The lack of manual skills today seems to be everywhere . Shop classes are dwindling in schools today and while there is no doubt that CNC machining is better I can't help but feel that a programmer would be better at his or her job if he or she first learned to turn, face , bore and mill the old fashioned way.

i remember my first semester at state teachers college ogling the machinery in the metals lab - lathes , mills all of industrial quality . This was in 1971 and we even had an early version of CNC on one of the mills - they called it numerical control back then and the program was run on IBM punch cards. I couldn't wait to learn machining on all this glorious equipment but it was not to be.

Our professor had us making cookie cutters out of tin and soldered with irons heated in a charcoal pot - the very same thing I learned 8 years previous at the elementary school level. With that type of attitude on the part of college level educators it is no wonder we wound up in the state we are in.

With the advent of digital clocks schools no longer teach clockwise and counterclockwise ( anti clockwise on the other side of the pond ). Try to teach a young person today the simple act of turning in a fastener without them knowing this most simple concept.

Just a few thoughts from the mind of a dinosaur Luddite .

A fairly young (32) friend comes by sometimes, to get help and a bit of tips on old scool motorcycle work. When he studied to Master of Science, Mech eng, they had a well equipped workshop with manual lathes, mills and welds for the pupils to play with in the evenings. Now he works at Ohlins designing MotoGP forks.

I feel some hope for the future.

I'm with Anna and Colin on the steam engine bit - My machining ( engineering on the other side of the pond) education had to wait until my family was largely grown and the passing of my father .

The money he left to me allowed the purchase of a small lathe/mill combo and some tooling.

I proceeded to teach my self for the most part with some help along the way from knowledgable

friends and the Internet . In addition to making many fasteners and spacers for my ES2 I was able to fulfill a long time wish by building this from Stuart Models excellent casting sets . I hope this is not out of place in a motorcycle blog - it seems to fit the thread

Well done, a nice model!

The skills are so useful if you have an old British bike. Some bits and pieces you buy are expensive and not always the quality you want. Most of the cycle part nuts and bolts for my 1938 ES2 are home made. I am not really into using stainless for everything and some of the modern reduced head nuts and bolts are not always right.

The 1935 BSA (sorry) is even harder to find bits for and so long as I have a rusty part as a pattern, I will at least have a go and make it myself.

Ashley said it is nothing to do with H&S, and I admit it's not everything - but it is a serious issue. When we were at school, the boys did metalwork. The best bit was making a garden trowel: taking a piece of mild steel hacksawing and filing to shape, then off the the forge and getting it red hot, then to the anvil and bashing it to shape, drilling, forging a handle - rivetting them together - all at the age of twelve. My son just messed about with plastic boxes.

In chemistry we all went outside to witness a thermit crucible reaching 2000degrees. My sononly ever saw it in a book. Most of the experiments we did are not now allowed. That's no way to inspire young people with self-belief.

But then again - last time (many years ago) I asked for a brake cylinder refurbishing kit, the man behind the counter hadn't a clue what this stone aged man was talking about. Labour is more costly than materials, so we throw away slightly worn items and nobody even tries to repair them. The last car I sent for scrap was nowhere near worn out, but was still beyond economical repair. The garage at the end of my road had a camshaft reprofiling machine some years ago. He hadn't used it for maybe a decade or more. It's cheaper to buy a new one - and new ones don't have enough meat on the back to allow them to be reground to increase the lift.

Thank you Anna and Colin for the compliments - Lest I get a swelled head and In the interest of full disclosure I must admit to discovering one of the basic tenets of machining while making the first

( yes , it took more than one try ) crankshaft for this engine - you always screw it up on the last operation !

When I worked as a fitter for a plant hire firm, we didn't repair small Honda engines, we just fitted new ones. Labour costs of repair vs unit replacement forced the issue. We had a big row of small Honda engines we could take home and fix.

As for the younger generation. My handless grandson (teaching him basic mechanics was such hard work) left school with 2 crap O levels but following working in a call centre got his act together and is now in his 3rd year of an Engineering degree. There is hope!

Is the 'throwaway' culture an American invention? The reason I ask is that, many years ago, I worked with a man who had done his national service in the RAF, stationed at an air base in Lincolnshire and, he told me, in addition to his normal run of duties he was given a special responsibility by the airfield's commanding officer. He was charged with watching out at all times for any American aircraft that, for whatever reason, came in to land and, immediately, he had to get a message to the pilot to keep his engine(s) running and not to switch it/them off unless it was absolutely unavoidable. The reason, apparently, was that the American stuff could never pass the RAF's rigorous pre-flight airworthy checks and would have to be grounded until RAF-approved servicing had been carried out; the American approach, he told me, was to run their engines for a certain time then just pull them out and fit replacements instead.

The throwaway culture is not limited to any country. It is a product of the capitalist system - it's always more profitable to sell people new stuff than to repair the old. The original light bulbs were designed to last a lifetime - the manufacturers changed the spec so that they had a limited life so needed to be replaced. One reason we're drowning in waste.

Health and safety? Often used as an excuse for people too lazy to find out the truth. H&S properly applied is an excellent thing - just look up the statistics for people killed and seriously injured in the building and engineering trades before it was introduced.

By the way Richard - nice model. Wrecking a part on the last operation is a bit like finding the lost part in the last place you look..... but I agree it can be very frustrating. My usual mistake is not to make sure the workpiece is securely clamped in the vice so it climbs out......

And I have no excuse having completed a full technical apprenticeship with the CEGB back in the 1960s.