Skip to main content
English French German Italian Spanish

Wish I had never seen the 961

For all the people who are thinking of purchasing one of these machines & think that Stuart Garner has gotten over all the issues with this bike, think again.

My love affair with this machine began back in 2009 at the NEC in Birmingham, as soon as I saw it I had to have it. I met Stuart & asked if I could purchase the bike that was on show right there & then. After a bit of a discussion I was told âyes you can have itâ I had to call them at the factory the next day & arrange payment. I headed home with a great big smile happy in the knowledge of what I had just done. Next morning I got on the phone to make the payment & thatâs when it all fell apart. I was advised that the bike was being shipped to the states for another show & that it would not be possible, I could however place an order & receive a new bike in three months. What the hell, the order was placed. By 2011 yes that correct 2011 I still had no bike. I had made plenty of phone calls & sent plenty E mails but just lies after lies. Funny but they never called me. In the end I gave up & after a while they did eventually pay my deposit back.

Fast forward to 2013 & I am looking for a new bike for my 45th birthday. The Norton started nagging in my head again, so I gave them a call. Spoke to a guy called Andy Jeans, sounded a decent chap. Went over my past history & he advised that things were a lot better now & I would not have the same problem. I was then told it would take nine months for delivery, em, that sound horribly familiar. I said thanks but no thanks, I would not wait that long. Next day I received an E mail advising that as I was a returning customer they could have a bike for me in April, this was January. As I was working away from home & would not be home until then I thought why not. I had only just paid my deposit when I get an E mail from Andy advising that he is leaving the company & someone new would take over my build. Oh dear here we go again, panic set in. The new guy was Sean Kynnersley & he is a gentleman. Anyway, I arrived home middle of April knowing that the bike is not ready but promised now for the start of May.

The bike arrived in May & I was so chuffed, finally I had the bike I lusted over in my garage. The next day I took her for the first run. Nothing fancy just a small 15 miles into see my mother. On arrival I stepped off the bike only to find oil all over the back wheel, the bike was covered in the stuff. There was so much oil I could not work out where it came from. Cleaned her all down & slowly rode back home, stopping every so often to check for oil leak. Found out she was leaking through the starter motor. The first of many phone calls to Norton. A new starter was sent up along with instructions on how to adapt an Allen key so as not to remove the clutch basket. New starter fitted & off we went again. We reached the 500 mile mark without further incident but the starter was leaking again. Hired a van & drove all the way to Donnington for the first service & to get the sports pipe fitted. Arrived early hours of the morning & found guys still working in the factory, they were preparing for the TT. Had a cup of coffee & then went for a sleep in the van. Woke up early next morning & the bike was rolled into the factory. I was advised that it would only take a couple of hours. The BSB was on at Donnington so I went to watch the practice. Came back to the factory around lunch time to find the bike in bits, the head & barrel was off. I spoke to the mechanic & said âthat looks a bit serious for a basic serviceâ. I was advised that they found traces of oil in the throttle bodies & that they were replacing the piston rings. Finally at five o clock my bike was ready. Pushed it into the van & started the long journey back to Scotland. Everything was fine for the first couple of hundred miles & then things started to go wrong again. When sitting at idle the bike would start to rev at all ranges on its own. Another phone call to be informed it was the lambda sensors & that they would get them sorted the next time they were up in Scotland. I did not have to wait for that to be fixed as on the next run out the gear selector dropped out & could not engage any gears. Yet another phone call to try & get the bike fixed. They eventually picked the bike up & she was gone for a month. Received a call one evening to say that my bike would be delivered that night & would I be available to take delivery, of course I will. The driver turned up at eleven o clock at night, he had been driving all day (he looked knackered). I asked if he needed a bed for the night but he said he had to get straight back for another delivery. I did not want to hold him up so I started the bike to ride it into the garage. When I started the bike up you could not see anything for smoke & I mean anything. The whole street was like fog. When the smoke cleared I asked the driver what the hell was going on, he said he was just the driver & to contact the factory in the morning. I should have just told him to take it away but he just looked shocked. The next morning, yet another phone call. I was told not to worry & it was just the new piston rings that had been installed. I was confused, that was not the reason that she had been back to the factory & it certainly was nothing to do with piston rings, this was valves. I was told just to run it for a couple of weeks & see how I get on. Well after a month I could not stand it any longer & called them to take it back & fix it. The bike was picked up again & off she went. Never saw her for another two months this time. Got the call saying she was on her way back & that they had had to replace the valve seals? Yet again another late night delivery. Woke up the next morning to beautiful sun shine (yes in Scotland) so decided to take the bike to work. Twenty miles of twisty country roads, great way to start your day. Arrived at work & everything was great, no issues on the run in. By lunch time the sun was still bright so I decided to head home & enjoy the run. After ten miles things were looking good so I decided to give her a bit more revs, thatâs when it all went wrong. As the revs were rising on a straight section of road there was an almighty bang, a lot of smoke & a lot of clatter. I pulled in the clutch & just let her role to a stop. Got off the bike, put her on the side stand & lit a cigarette. Pulled out my phone & made the call.

Me: Hi Sean its Craig.

Sean: Hi Craig howâs the bike, have you been for a run yet.

Me: In fact yes, I am out on the bike now. She is currently sitting at the side of the road with an engine that has just gone pop.

Sean: Ha ha, I hope youâre kidding, howâs it really going.

Me: No I am not kidding, this one could have been serious & I could have been killed if anything else was on the road.

Sean: Well thatâs not good, we will come & pick it up. Sorry about that.

Anyway, the bike was picked up yet again. I contacted Sean to say that I did not want the bike back as it was too much of a risk; the engine just wasnât up to the task. After a lot of phone calls & many E mails I was persuaded to take the bike back but not before I had my conditions met.

  1. The bike was to be 100% fixed before returning.
  2. The warranty was to be extended by another year to cover the time she had spent in the factory.
  3. If the engine failed again, I would receive a full refund.

I was given all the above in a letter from Norton & assured that if it happened again I would have no problem with a refund. I was also told that a new engine would be fitted to be sure she was good. Three months went by & no bike. Again lots of E mails & phone calls. Sorry we are waiting on parts. Sorry we have just bought Donnington Hall & we are in the middle of a move. As I said over three months later & the bike arrived & she was perfect. Funny thing was the new engine still had the old engine number? I also received an E mail from Sean saying he had now left Norton & could not help me any further.

Things were great, the bike ran well that was until two months ago. Again on the run home from work the bike started to lose power, I thought it had fouled a plug. Tried to clear it but nope she lost all compression & oil residue all over the engine, it was fatal. Made the inevitable phone call, advised who I was & asked to talk with someone who could arrange collection of the bike & my money back as agreed. I was told I would receive a call in the next hour. No call ever came. I called back & was asked if I had proof of the agreement, I said I did & would send a copy of the letter. I never received another call from Norton & to date they have still not talked to me. I sent countless E mails with no response. I did receive one E mail stating that the person I was sending my E mails to was on holiday & no one else saw his E mails & that he would be in touch on his return. So someone saw that E mail but did not see the others, more lies. I contacted a solicitor to start legal proceedings to get my money back. I sent him all the E mails I have from two years of heart ache from Norton & also the letter confirming that I would receive my money back. Guess what, Yup, Norton are also ignoring his letters.

So be warned, things are still not right at Norton. Those who have good bikes are happy & those of us who ended up with abroken bikeare treated like itâs our fault. A certain Mr Garner does not deserve to hold the title to this classic name & I for one hope that one day it is taken from him.

Craig Milne

Permalink

Craig. l know how you feel l had the same problem in 1995 with a brand new Mercedes E280 Estate costing £37,000 l only wrote l letter to a top man in the service department who visted the main dealers in the uk l got is address by undercover asking questions about was the dealer in the M.A.A. who supplied the car to me l was contacted by Mercedes direct and they supplied me with a brand new car the same model at no cost to me ,l still have the car in daily use and its never gone wrong once in 20 years so l think Norton will give you a new bike if you make the right noise not always with a solicitor that costing you loads of money thanks Colin Blundell.

Permalink

Previously craig_milne wrote:

For all the people who are thinking of purchasing one of these machines & think that Stuart Garner has gotten over all the issues with this bike, think again.

My love affair with this machine began back in 2009 at the NEC in Birmingham, as soon as I saw it I had to have it. I met Stuart & asked if I could purchase the bike that was on show right there & then. After a bit of a discussion I was told âyes you can have itâ I had to call them at the factory the next day & arrange payment. I headed home with a great big smile happy in the knowledge of what I had just done. Next morning I got on the phone to make the payment & thatâs when it all fell apart. I was advised that the bike was being shipped to the states for another show & that it would not be possible, I could however place an order & receive a new bike in three months. What the hell, the order was placed. By 2011 yes that correct 2011 I still had no bike. I had made plenty of phone calls & sent plenty E mails but just lies after lies. Funny but they never called me. In the end I gave up & after a while they did eventually pay my deposit back.

Fast forward to 2013 & I am looking for a new bike for my 45th birthday. The Norton started nagging in my head again, so I gave them a call. Spoke to a guy called Andy Jeans, sounded a decent chap. Went over my past history & he advised that things were a lot better now & I would not have the same problem. I was then told it would take nine months for delivery, em, that sound horribly familiar. I said thanks but no thanks, I would not wait that long. Next day I received an E mail advising that as I was a returning customer they could have a bike for me in April, this was January. As I was working away from home & would not be home until then I thought why not. I had only just paid my deposit when I get an E mail from Andy advising that he is leaving the company & someone new would take over my build. Oh dear here we go again, panic set in. The new guy was Sean Kynnersley & he is a gentleman. Anyway, I arrived home middle of April knowing that the bike is not ready but promised now for the start of May.

The bike arrived in May & I was so chuffed, finally I had the bike I lusted over in my garage. The next day I took her for the first run. Nothing fancy just a small 15 miles into see my mother. On arrival I stepped off the bike only to find oil all over the back wheel, the bike was covered in the stuff. There was so much oil I could not work out where it came from. Cleaned her all down & slowly rode back home, stopping every so often to check for oil leak. Found out she was leaking through the starter motor. The first of many phone calls to Norton. A new starter was sent up along with instructions on how to adapt an Allen key so as not to remove the clutch basket. New starter fitted & off we went again. We reached the 500 mile mark without further incident but the starter was leaking again. Hired a van & drove all the way to Donnington for the first service & to get the sports pipe fitted. Arrived early hours of the morning & found guys still working in the factory, they were preparing for the TT. Had a cup of coffee & then went for a sleep in the van. Woke up early next morning & the bike was rolled into the factory. I was advised that it would only take a couple of hours. The BSB was on at Donnington so I went to watch the practice. Came back to the factory around lunch time to find the bike in bits, the head & barrel was off. I spoke to the mechanic & said âthat looks a bit serious for a basic serviceâ. I was advised that they found traces of oil in the throttle bodies & that they were replacing the piston rings. Finally at five o clock my bike was ready. Pushed it into the van & started the long journey back to Scotland. Everything was fine for the first couple of hundred miles & then things started to go wrong again. When sitting at idle the bike would start to rev at all ranges on its own. Another phone call to be informed it was the lambda sensors & that they would get them sorted the next time they were up in Scotland. I did not have to wait for that to be fixed as on the next run out the gear selector dropped out & could not engage any gears. Yet another phone call to try & get the bike fixed. They eventually picked the bike up & she was gone for a month. Received a call one evening to say that my bike would be delivered that night & would I be available to take delivery, of course I will. The driver turned up at eleven o clock at night, he had been driving all day (he looked knackered). I asked if he needed a bed for the night but he said he had to get straight back for another delivery. I did not want to hold him up so I started the bike to ride it into the garage. When I started the bike up you could not see anything for smoke & I mean anything. The whole street was like fog. When the smoke cleared I asked the driver what the hell was going on, he said he was just the driver & to contact the factory in the morning. I should have just told him to take it away but he just looked shocked. The next morning, yet another phone call. I was told not to worry & it was just the new piston rings that had been installed. I was confused, that was not the reason that she had been back to the factory & it certainly was nothing to do with piston rings, this was valves. I was told just to run it for a couple of weeks & see how I get on. Well after a month I could not stand it any longer & called them to take it back & fix it. The bike was picked up again & off she went. Never saw her for another two months this time. Got the call saying she was on her way back & that they had had to replace the valve seals? Yet again another late night delivery. Woke up the next morning to beautiful sun shine (yes in Scotland) so decided to take the bike to work. Twenty miles of twisty country roads, great way to start your day. Arrived at work & everything was great, no issues on the run in. By lunch time the sun was still bright so I decided to head home & enjoy the run. After ten miles things were looking good so I decided to give her a bit more revs, thatâs when it all went wrong. As the revs were rising on a straight section of road there was an almighty bang, a lot of smoke & a lot of clatter. I pulled in the clutch & just let her role to a stop. Got off the bike, put her on the side stand & lit a cigarette. Pulled out my phone & made the call.

Me: Hi Sean its Craig.

Sean: Hi Craig howâs the bike, have you been for a run yet.

Me: In fact yes, I am out on the bike now. She is currently sitting at the side of the road with an engine that has just gone pop.

Sean: Ha ha, I hope youâre kidding, howâs it really going.

Me: No I am not kidding, this one could have been serious & I could have been killed if anything else was on the road.

Sean: Well thatâs not good, we will come & pick it up. Sorry about that.

Anyway, the bike was picked up yet again. I contacted Sean to say that I did not want the bike back as it was too much of a risk; the engine just wasnât up to the task. After a lot of phone calls & many E mails I was persuaded to take the bike back but not before I had my conditions met.

  1. The bike was to be 100% fixed before returning.
  2. The warranty was to be extended by another year to cover the time she had spent in the factory.
  3. If the engine failed again, I would receive a full refund.

I was given all the above in a letter from Norton & assured that if it happened again I would have no problem with a refund. I was also told that a new engine would be fitted to be sure she was good. Three months went by & no bike. Again lots of E mails & phone calls. Sorry we are waiting on parts. Sorry we have just bought Donnington Hall & we are in the middle of a move. As I said over three months later & the bike arrived & she was perfect. Funny thing was the new engine still had the old engine number? I also received an E mail from Sean saying he had now left Norton & could not help me any further.

Things were great, the bike ran well that was until two months ago. Again on the run home from work the bike started to lose power, I thought it had fouled a plug. Tried to clear it but nope she lost all compression & oil residue all over the engine, it was fatal. Made the inevitable phone call, advised who I was & asked to talk with someone who could arrange collection of the bike & my money back as agreed. I was told I would receive a call in the next hour. No call ever came. I called back & was asked if I had proof of the agreement, I said I did & would send a copy of the letter. I never received another call from Norton & to date they have still not talked to me. I sent countless E mails with no response. I did receive one E mail stating that the person I was sending my E mails to was on holiday & no one else saw his E mails & that he would be in touch on his return. So someone saw that E mail but did not see the others, more lies. I contacted a solicitor to start legal proceedings to get my money back. I sent him all the E mails I have from two years of heart ache from Norton & also the letter confirming that I would receive my money back. Guess what, Yup, Norton are also ignoring his letters.

So be warned, things are still not right at Norton. Those who have good bikes are happy & those of us who ended up with abroken bikeare treated like itâs our fault. A certain Mr Garner does not deserve to hold the title to this classic name & I for one hope that one day it is taken from him.

Craig Milne

Hello your not the only owner that gone all through this treatment and ended up with a machnie that is mechnicaly floored from new, all these problem should of never happend if this engine had been developed in the right way,

I been saying this for a long time the 961 just was not right, Now this proves all I been saying , some 961s will last longer than others and be better too but at the end of the day its still a undeveloped engine with many faults , I will not touch one with a mile long barge pole , I stick like Glue to the Bracebridge Built machnies every one in the NOC thinks I am Knocking the Norton Brand , Were not ! its all down to Mr Garner and his head in the cloud ideas ,and his thinks he knows it all attitude , even I will put my hands up and say do not know every thing there is still a lot to learn even at my age 62 years old with Bs IMech.eng in marine engineering , were all still learning we not even got the dummy out of our mouths even the top men are still learning, and you just learned the hard way, about the 961. when I knew by just looking at it back in 2009 and then 2011 factory vist that just confurmed to me then I was on the right track and things was not has they where showen too us all no mater how he spun his sales speach , in the back of my mind there was something telling me all this was not right somewhere, and there trying to gloss over the cracks that why there is so many on ebay now , owners have lost there interest, well at lest you now have the T shirt , and a experance you not for get any time soon , so sorry it all turn out this way , it could of been so much better if only the top men would only take some time to listen to the engineers at know better , anyway Now the Government have granted Norton 7.5 million this meens its now owned by the British tax payer, Lock stock and barrel so we see where they go from here on they now need a new model has the 961 by now is out dated, so they have too come up with some all new and sooner than later, or the intrest in Norton Brand with have been and Gone, Sorry to have to say this but thats how I see it, and being Yorkshire I tell it has it is. the hard facts, And Graig sorry all this turned out this way it should of been all so much better! but do not give up the Norton Name there sill some very good motorcycles to own and be proud of ! yours anna j

Permalink

Sorry to hear about all the problems Craig and its probabably the most damming report i have read and gives some more food to the doubters who have already replied as if they know everything already. I do hope you get sorted and quick, many other companys would have just changed the vehicle to avoid the bad publicity, so sad and yes i do own one.

Permalink

No need to apologise Anna, I let my heart ruke my head. I still have a 1961 350 single Norton so no way I will give up on the old bikes. Its just the new ones & the treatment that are shocking.

Craig

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Hello your not the only owner that gone all through this treatment and ended up with a machnie that is mechnicaly floored from new, all these problem should of never happend if this engine had been developed in the right way,

I been saying this for a long time the 961 just was not right, Now this proves all I been saying , some 961s will last longer than others and be better too but at the end of the day its still a undeveloped engine with many faults , I will not touch one with a mile long barge pole , I stick like Glue to the Bracebridge Built machnies every one in the NOC thinks I am Knocking the Norton Brand , Were not ! its all down to Mr Garner and his head in the cloud ideas ,and his thinks he knows it all attitude , even I will put my hands up and say do not know every thing there is still a lot to learn even at my age 62 years old with Bs IMech.eng in marine engineering , were all still learning we not even got the dummy out of our mouths even the top men are still learning, and you just learned the hard way, about the 961. when I knew by just looking at it back in 2009 and then 2011 factory vist that just confurmed to me then I was on the right track and things was not has they where showen too us all no mater how he spun his sales speach , in the back of my mind there was something telling me all this was not right somewhere, and there trying to gloss over the cracks that why there is so many on ebay now , owners have lost there interest, well at lest you now have the T shirt , and a experance you not for get any time soon , so sorry it all turn out this way , it could of been so much better if only the top men would only take some time to listen to the engineers at know better , anyway Now the Government have granted Norton 7.5 million this meens its now owned by the British tax payer, Lock stock and barrel so we see where they go from here on they now need a new model has the 961 by now is out dated, so they have too come up with some all new and sooner than later, or the intrest in Norton Brand with have been and Gone, Sorry to have to say this but thats how I see it, and being Yorkshire I tell it has it is. the hard facts, And Graig sorry all this turned out this way it should of been all so much better! but do not give up the Norton Name there sill some very good motorcycles to own and be proud of ! yours anna j

Permalink

Previously frederick_hood wrote:

Sorry to hear about all the problems Craig and its probabably the most damming report i have read and gives some more food to the doubters who have already replied as if they know everything already. I do hope you get sorted and quick, many other companys would have just changed the vehicle to avoid the bad publicity, so sad and yes i do own one.

I am gutted, I loved this bike & when she ran, she ran good. Its not so much the bike its more the treatment from the company. They no what they are doing & they just dont care. They no that no british motorcycle mag will give them bad press as we all want the brand back, but this is wrong. They are happy to sit & watch me suffer & continue to pay out of my pocket to take action. The last resort is to take them to court & that will cost me 10k, they will probably settle then so as not to get in the papers. Well I would rather lose all the money & give Mr Garner his day in court.

Permalink

One of the contributing factors to the original demise of the British Bike Industry was the pusillanimous attitude of the Motorcycle and Motorcycling to the manufacturers/ advertisers. No road test was mildly critical of the product, even though we knew that many bikes tested, not Nortons, had horrendous shortcomings.

Craig's treatment has, it appears, been disgusting and should concern potential buyers. It has sometimes appeared that the NOC has bent over backwards to support Mr. Garner . An in depth interview by someone without stars in their eyes would be useful . How about it for Roadholder?

Permalink

Previously charles_bovington wrote:

One of the contributing factors to the original demise of the British Bike Industry was the pusillanimous attitude of the Motorcycle and Motorcycling to the manufacturers/ advertisers. No road test was mildly critical of the product, even though we knew that many bikes tested, not Nortons, had horrendous shortcomings.

Craig's treatment has, it appears, been disgusting and should concern potential buyers. It has sometimes appeared that the NOC has bent over backwards to support Mr. Garner . An in depth interview by someone without stars in their eyes would be useful . How about it for Roadholder?

Hello Charles this engine would be a good one if they just took some time out to do some more development the bug bare is these pistons there useing from a car they blanc pistons then machined up too fit, its this the piston Shape that not rightly machined and piston is normaly narrower at the top than the bottom of its skirt, were it then get wider and if there useing Nickosil chromed bores they need the right type of black cast piston rings with a good spring in it, , I am just woulding if these piston rings and pistons are that bit out, and mincing a worn bore, and letting oil blow by, that why they changed the ring at 500miles whitch sould not have too do this at this mileage, they need to reconise this problem but there do not seam too do this, I think they be better off with a honed bore and chrome plated piston rings has our Norton are, its is why the guy in the Eu got his bike bored out to 20 over taking out the chrome plating and fitting a new piston too the rigth size , had done the trick .now hes no more problems he now has a good Motorcycle , but why are not Norton sorting this out them selfs , why are some owners left with egg on there faces, all the things Norton have done for Craig and its made no differnce , what are your thoughts on this charles yours anna j

Permalink

I would really like to hear both sides of this story. I don't doubt the side we have heard it truthfull, but I am sure there is more info we dont know about.

I know of several people who own 961's & are thrilled with the bike & absolutely love them. I personally do plan on owning one. Look at the number of these new Nortons that have sold up to todays date. If they were all bad, there would be a lot more talk. I do understand that in manufacturing, sometimes you get a machine that just was unfortunate to have multiple issues, or perhaps one issue that no one can seem to solve. Here in the USA we have what are called "Lemon Laws", where is you have a vehicle that is a "lemon" the law provides you an option to get a free replacement. It really is a shame about this particular bike & I hope Norton makes it right, but one problem machine out of all the new Nortons produced shouldnt deter everyone (in my opinion).

It is good to have all the issues out in the open so that one can make an informed decision though. Wouldnt it be great if everyone who goes to the dealer to buy a new Norton, was reading this post & told their dealer " when my friend in the NOC gets his 961 fixed to his satisfaction, I will buy this new bike" ?

Power in numbers!

Permalink

Previously craig_milne wrote:

Previously frederick_hood wrote:

Sorry to hear about all the problems Craig and its probabably the most damming report i have read and gives some more food to the doubters who have already replied as if they know everything already. I do hope you get sorted and quick, many other companys would have just changed the vehicle to avoid the bad publicity, so sad and yes i do own one.

I am gutted, I loved this bike & when she ran, she ran good. Its not so much the bike its more the treatment from the company. They no what they are doing & they just dont care. They no that no british motorcycle mag will give them bad press as we all want the brand back, but this is wrong. They are happy to sit & watch me suffer & continue to pay out of my pocket to take action. The last resort is to take them to court & that will cost me 10k, they will probably settle then so as not to get in the papers. Well I would rather lose all the money & give Mr Garner his day in court.

Well this like this mate every dealer has his big smile on his face and they do there very best to help you spend your hard earned cash , and there very gald to take your cash even if you where wore a red dress with poker dots on and high heel shoes ,and a red hand bag ! they would not care one bit, give you some funny looks maybe, but they still take your cash , you see what i meen and when it gose all pearshaped, they do not want to know, and try fob you off with any kind of fix just to honor there contract of sevice , yours anna j

Permalink

On the second-hand market most of the 961s, that I checked up on, did not have more than 4000 miles on their clocks. I did meet one owner who had managed to ride a dizzy 12,000 miles in 4 years but this partcular machine had been returned to the factory, on three occasions, for major upgrades or repairs.

Has anyone got a 961 that has run for more than 10,000 miles without a serious issue???

Permalink

Owners' reports appear to fall into two distinct categories, firstly those that are delighted with their bikes and secondlythose who appear to have had serious prroblems with their machines.

There does not appear to be any middle ground. Is it perhaps that the early bikes were the troublesome ones and the later bikes have had the gremlins eradicated?

I like the looks of the 961 and the concept appeals, but 79 RWBHP is a pretty small bang for the size of the required bucks to buy one in my view and by the sounds of it a troublesome one is really bad news.

Permalink

I was able to road test a very early 961 and apart from the gear change mechanism (which has now been altered) and silly clocks, thought it was a great bike to ride. The problem is the price. The 12,000 mile rider I spoke with had paid around 15 grand for his particular model with the special wheels and other fancy parts. It looked terrific.

But for that sort of cash you could have purchased two of the new Bonnies or three Honda CB500 twins. All with a similar performance and proven reliability.

It was interesting to note that there were five low mileage 961s up for sale last week all priced below £12,000. Have some early owners finally twigged that they might have invested in a lemon? It is no good keeping a bike like this for the occasional ride if it later goes bang outside of the warranty period.

Has the promised future-proof investment bubble just burst???

Permalink

Or for £15K you could get a 40 year old Jota which would probably still cremate the 961.

I think you have a point Phil - what is the 961's unique appeal? It can't just be the name on the tank - not when it costs £15K to own one.

I oculd probably live with 79RW BHP for £15K, but the reliabilty reports are scary.

Permalink

My 961 now has 5500 miles on it and I love it to bits still... i took it to a small bike show on saturday, it won a prize, even though it was just sitting in the car park!

It had one issue which wasa noisystarter motor, which was changed under warranty by Krazy Horse in Bury St Edmunds. They collected it, fixed it and delivered it back, I cant ask for any more and Ive had no complaints with their service and i will quite happily buy another 961 tomorrow.

Ive got a garage full of bikes, including a 1949 Sunbeam and nothing gets the attention that the 961 does or gives me as much enjoyment.....

Permalink

Not everyone has the financial resources to own "a garage full of bikes" and it seems there are some unhappy 961 owners out there too.

Permalink

Previously charles_scouller wrote:

Not everyone has the financial resources to own "a garage full of bikes" and it seems there are some unhappy 961 owners out there too.

Well my 55year old bike more relieble sice I bought the bike and rebulid it I done well over 6000 it had 33,000 on the clock before this, and its still on standard pistons and rings with no signs of ware, and run well when I get time to get it out , and never let me down once, its on a original magneto and its been thought the worst weather ever in the UK in 2008 on the motorway it never stopped it then and got home ok with a big steam cloud following me the rain was so intens it was like a river coming off our roof when putting the bike away I got soking wet so did the bike even more the first thing I did was dry off the bike it took me a hour or so and then got a shower my self and dryed off and fresh clothes on my leather hung too dry off , my boot too , we had 3 inch of water upside of the step the car park was a lake buy now, on the news a man had drowen trying to save someother persons he was so brave , the emergence team try but come do very little to save him , any way you see what i meen its 55 year old technology out doing uptodate technology , So what the hell is going On some owners would like to know some answers but nothing siad from Norton Motorcycles they keeping stum so this to me say it all , there keeping some thing back from these onwers and have you seen the Consumer website on the Norton Commando 961, these are ex owners some are still waiting for the money back, and legal proceding are still ongoing , so what all this amont too , the writing is on the wall, yours Anna J

Permalink

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

On the second-hand market most of the 961s, that I checked up on, did not have more than 4000 miles on their clocks. I did meet one owner who had managed to ride a dizzy 12,000 miles in 4 years but this partcular machine had been returned to the factory, on three occasions, for major upgrades or repairs.

Has anyone got a 961 that has run for more than 10,000 miles without a serious issue???

Hi everyoneWith my Cafe Racer I reached today the mark of 15'000 miles on the clock. The original pistons did around 6'600 miles, which had to be replaced by oversize pistons because of heavy oil consumption. Details can be found somewhere in this forum.If I would buy again a 961 today?Probably yes, but not for the price I paid for and only if I could be assured that warranty issues are treated as it should by a serious company. Under the actual management this isdoubtful. Up to date I did not get a refund for the 2'000 EUR I had to pay out of my own pocket, additional to this, my dealer is waiting for payment of at least the same amount of money for manpower and parts used to treat my warranty issues.Like Phil, I would be pleased to hear about others with high mileage on their 961 who had no major problems.RegardsRaphael, SwitzerlandAttachments mileage.jpg old_pistons_original-jpg
Permalink

15000 miles on a modern engine of nearly 1000cc in what appears to be a relatively low state of tune should be trouble free in my book.

My own bikes are as follows:

1987 FZR Genesis 989 cc 25000 miles 121 RWBHP (2 years ago) oil consumption nil.

2002 TL1000R 996 CC 23000 miles 119 RWBHP (5 years ago) oil consumption nil

2010 CB1300 1284cc 11500 miles 123 RWBHP oil consumption nil.

Permalink

Previously raphael_vonaesch wrote:

Well, of course I meant Norton Commando 961 motorcycles...

Which I just precised in my post above.

Hello Well I Am not convinced that this motorcycle its the right machnie for Norton To been building, Al Melling had the right Ideas and The Norton Nemiess V8 was going in the right direct for modern motorcycles and it was light weight too, and better technology, Too Me Build the Commando 961 was A 40 year step backwards Where did It all go wrong, Yours Anna J Dixon

Permalink

Anna,

The V8 Nemesis project was pie in the sky, and at a projected price of £32,000, expensive pie . There is a market for traditional design and workmanship as the Morgan Car Company prove. Norton had no real option but to take the Kenny Dreer design and run with it. They could, in my opinion, have done a much better job of it if they had put their own resources into getting it right before putting it on the market and forgot the pointless publicity seeking efforts of putting a Norton back on the IOM TT. It just made them look second rate and was a diversion from their core business challenge.

Permalink

The Triumph and Norton business models couldn't be farther apart. Took Bloor 16 years from '84 to '2000 to just break even with an investment approaching £100 million and annual bike sales of 20,000 units plus. Today they produce approx 50,000 units annually from their combined Hinkley and Thailand production plants - and all that after their original plant was pretty much destroyed in a 2002 fire. Impressive indeed.

Norton at the other end of the scale and under their current business model can only ever be a low production operation aimed at the marque enthusiast market. Curious to know how many 961s have been produced totally since their start six years ago - 3,000 perhaps to date ?

Either way with a both a Thruxton 900 and a 961 Sport in the garage, and given both have been completely reliable , I still give the Norton the edge on performance , character and general two wheeled fun.

Permalink

I am interested in this thread. Many owners complain about the oil consumption but does this constitute a 'reliability' issue. In my book reliability relates to actual faults that cause machine failures (breakdowns or other malfunctions etc.). in this case are there any 'common' issues? (e.g. I seem to recollect mention of starter motor problems).

Permalink

Previously charles_bovington wrote:

Anna,

The V8 Nemesis project was pie in the sky, and at a projected price of £32,000, expensive pie . There is a market for traditional design and workmanship as the Morgan Car Company prove. Norton had no real option but to take the Kenny Dreer design and run with it. They could, in my opinion, have done a much better job of it if they had put their own resources into getting it right before putting it on the market and forgot the pointless publicity seeking efforts of putting a Norton back on the IOM TT. It just made them look second rate and was a diversion from their core business challenge.

Well I have to disagree with this its was all down to a lack of investment just like the 961 story but there are very difference between the two Has Al Melling Spent a long time on bench testing the V8 he had designed and he also designed a smaller V6 has well no one got to see this, Al melling designs were in another world in comparision to the 961, He was in the F1 leage of designs but for a motorcycle, , if the right investor had been in place things would of been a competely different story, and Norton would have had high technology motorcycle far advanced of anything the japanese has now, the Japanese only copied our stuff to there R&D model and the cash for all this after WW2 came from our government and the USA , while our Motorcycle industry was trying to pick up the peaces and struggle on with compleatly Worn out tooling and got No help from any Government, until its was on its knees , I have all this documented , our manufacting industry has been constantly been run down into the ground, WHY, ask your selfs this one, , our cash is going out of this country and susporting other country around the world nearly every thing now is been made in some other country, there is not much with made in britain on it any more, even the Norton Commando 961cc has its conponent parts made in China and Italy and Japan too, the steel to make the frame is from India Tata Steel the only thing is its constructed in this counrty and marketed has being a British product , Has it has the Famous Name of Norton On its Tank , but its Not 100% british the Truth often offends Yours Anna J

Permalink

This is very worrying on several levels. "Quality Control" seems to be the first omission then "After Sales Service" and "Customer Communication" - no way to run a business without all these in place. The biggest worry to everyone should be that the Government are 'giving' £10M of our money to this firm! The realiability or otherwise is of zero interest to me as I would never wantbuy one even if I had the money.

Permalink

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously charles_bovington wrote:

Anna,

The V8 Nemesis project was pie in the sky, and at a projected price of £32,000, expensive pie . There is a market for traditional design and workmanship as the Morgan Car Company prove. Norton had no real option but to take the Kenny Dreer design and run with it. They could, in my opinion, have done a much better job of it if they had put their own resources into getting it right before putting it on the market and forgot the pointless publicity seeking efforts of putting a Norton back on the IOM TT. It just made them look second rate and was a diversion from their core business challenge.

Well I have to disagree with this its was all down to a lack of investment just like the 961 story but there are very difference between the two Has Al Melling Spent a long time on bench testing the V8 he had designed and he also designed a smaller V6 has well no one got to see this, Al melling designs were in another world in comparision to the 961, He was in the F1 leage of designs but for a motorcycle, , if the right investor had been in place things would of been a competely different story, and Norton would have had high technology motorcycle far advanced of anything the japanese has now, the Japanese only copied our stuff to there R&D model and the cash for all this after WW2 came from our government and the USA , while our Motorcycle industry was trying to pick up the peaces and struggle on with compleatly Worn out tooling and got No help from any Government, until its was on its knees , I have all this documented , our manufacting industry has been constantly been run down into the ground, WHY, ask your selfs this one, , our cash is going out of this country and susporting other country around the world nearly every thing now is been made in some other country, there is not much with made in britain on it any more, even the Norton Commando 961cc has its conponent parts made in China and Italy and Japan too, the steel to make the frame is from India Tata Steel the only thing is its constructed in this counrty and marketed has being a British product , Has it has the Famous Name of Norton On its Tank , but its Not 100% british the Truth often offends Yours Anna J

What Ho Anna J

I don't KNOW why the Britiish motorcycle. industry went into decline. Beefing up Japanese and German industies didn't help. I have a sneaking suspiscion that it might have been partly due to inept managers and greedy sharholders by way of lack of investment in new machinery and sheer avarice. It's known colloquially as Neolberalism !

Andy Chetwood

Permalink

While I questioned if the 961 was the way forward for Norton when Kenny Dreer first showed it to me on his laptop in 2003(!), Al Melling's wrenching two Kawasaki ZX7R top halves on a common crankcase was the answer to no question. It was a non-runner to boot. I asked the then responsible reporter of MCN "Did you push it down a slope?" (a known trick to get "action" shots of non-running prototypes) to which he said "hummm, humm".

His Formula 1 involvement I checked on at the time and the stories I got from the parties he gave as references sounded very different to what he told the press. In fact there was no actual involvement.

I also had friends with contacts to TVR and, yet again, the story was very different to what he told the press.

Just read up on his various projects and you'll see that every single one failed. And every time it was somebody else's fault.....

 


Norton Owners Club Website by White-Hot Design