Oil in airbox

Hi Stuart

I've not been advised to do this but I am now curious so will check that morning and let you know results.

What have they tod you constitues "a good run"?

Oil in the air box? Does that mean the crankcase is over pressurised?

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Hi Stuart

I've not been advised to do this but I am now curious so will check that morning and let you know results.

Stuart,

checked my airbox today and no excess oil so checked the oil level and all ok Terry

Previously stuart_peach wrote:

Norton supplied TSB 00014 kit fitted which appears to have contained the phenomenon of the escaping crankcase oil. A couple of hundred miles done and not a drop seen.

Happy days.

Stuart

Hi Stuart

Do you know how this fix looks like? Is it a transmission vent or something else?

Cheers,

Raphael

Previously stuart_peach wrote:

Raphael,

An inconspicous black plastic baffle box inserted in the crankcase breather pipe (see picture) and replacement of the rocker box cover to one without breather pipe connections. Very tidy.

Stuart

and the price of this kit is...........?

do we know the price of this kit?

Previously paul_dear wrote:

do we know the price of this kit?

Previously stuart_peach wrote:

Not a clue Paul. Supplied and fitted under warranty.

Stuart.

Is this you NortonFactoryUK is referring to? http://www.accessnorton.com/newsflash-961-oil-airbox-fix-t23590.html

hello A New Motorcycle No mater what make or model , Should Not have any Issues with oil getting into the air box , So you have to ask you self why is this happening with the engine in the 961, to my mind it maybe oil is getting down the back of the valve Guide and been sucked back into the air-box area or the cylinder heads are porous has found on the 850 commandos , in any event the manufactures should by now should of got to grips with this problem its in there interests to sort it out , Its Not the owner problem , Yours Anna J

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

hello A New Motorcycle No mater what make or model , Should Not have any Issues with oil getting into the air box , So you have to ask you self why is this happening with the engine in the 961, to my mind it maybe oil is getting down the back of the valve Guide and been sucked back into the air-box area or the cylinder heads are porous has found on the 850 commandos , in any event the manufactures should by now should of got to grips with this problem its in there interests to sort it out , Its Not the owner problem , Yours Anna J

Another useless comment with no knowledge of the problem.

AO

Previously alan_osborn wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

hello A New Motorcycle No mater what make or model , Should Not have any Issues with oil getting into the air box , So you have to ask you self why is this happening with the engine in the 961, to my mind it maybe oil is getting down the back of the valve Guide and been sucked back into the air-box area or the cylinder heads are porous has found on the 850 commandos , in any event the manufactures should by now should of got to grips with this problem its in there interests to sort it out , Its Not the owner problem , Yours Anna J

Another useless comment with no knowledge of the problem.

AO

I think that we will not have to put up with this type of posting in the future as I think that the webmaster has shot the trolls. Long live the webmaster welcome back 961 owners. Terry

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Previously alan_osborn wrote:

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

hello A New Motorcycle No mater what make or model , Should Not have any Issues with oil getting into the air box , So you have to ask you self why is this happening with the engine in the 961, to my mind it maybe oil is getting down the back of the valve Guide and been sucked back into the air-box area or the cylinder heads are porous has found on the 850 commandos , in any event the manufactures should by now should of got to grips with this problem its in there interests to sort it out , Its Not the owner problem , Yours Anna J

Another useless comment with no knowledge of the problem.

AO

I think that we will not have to put up with this type of posting in the future as I think that the webmaster has shot the trolls. Long live the webmaster welcome back 961 owners. Terry

Well said Terry I hope that Simon Marshall from the Norton factory will start posting again as I'am sure his knowledge will be welcome to the owners of the 961 and hopefully encourage people to inquire about the range of new Norton's.

Merry Christmas to one and all.

Den Bourne.

This unfortunately raises its ugly head again. I was not going to comment on this subject but feel in view of what has happened to me that I now do so.

My Dominator was one of the first of the new bikes to be released with the mod including a drain pipe and collection bottle. If any of you followed the ride out to Brighton, you will already know that en route to Ryka's my bike developed a small leak of oil from the airbox. By the time we reached Verrall's it had stopped and did not show up again until last week when again I had another small leak. Checking the oil level shows no appreciable drop. However on this occasion I did have oil on the rear tyre!!

There are no leaks on the garage floor and it only seems to occur on longer runs.

I understand that a new mod will now be made available and I hope that this is done asap and in any case before the impending trip to Rimini. Continually wiping dripping oil from the frame to stop to reaching the tyre is not ideal.

I will keep everyone updated as to my progress as I am sure there are others in a similar position.

Regards

Graham

Hi Graham I'm almost certain you're aware of my issues as well. Short summary no sign of oil till straight after the first service, now it's everywhere! Photos and even a video (page 4).

I should really start a thread here now that I'm a bonafide paid up member of the Norton Club. Off topic but the forum software really does need to join the 21st century at some point!

A serious amount of oil was removed from the airbox on mi Sport during the 500 mile first service last Feb. About 250 to 300ml. The oil tank level had dropped to the minimum mark. Removing this oil made a big difference to the idling and slow running. I checked the airbox again before heading up to the AGM and there was none visible with 800 miles on the clock. Will check again this morning. Mine is a 2015 reg bike and to date does not have the airbox and pump mods.

I have checked the airbox 3 times now and am quite concerned about the junk I keep finding inside it. The rear wheel seems to throw all the much off the road straight at it. Including loads of dust, small stones, leaves and twigs. The wheel hugger needs a short vertical lip to stop the trash and water heading towards the rear of the engine.

Hi Ian and Phil.

Ian, I have been following your thread on the Access Norton forum with interest. Your input on this forum would be most welcome.

Phil, I am aware from talking to you about your issues as well. I have already noticed that on the return journey after having the filter replaced that the bike is running smoother especially the slow running which appears to be the same as yours.

I haven't found anything but oil in the airbag. Not sure if the hugger is different on yours but I have had no problem with this.

I am about to give mine a couple of hundred mile run and report on what I find. Just glad we have a dry sunny day here for a change.

I will update the forum accordingly.

Graham

Not quite 200 but managed 140 miles. Not sure if I am pleased or not. First 50 miles was motorway/dual carriageway at a constant (ish) speed. Stopped for coffee and no leaks etc. Next 50 miles was round A and B roads with varying speed etc. ( I even saw a Domieracer out (Number 26) and stopped for a chat with him.) At the next stop I found oil in the collection bottle. Only a small amount. So I still have oil leaking, only now into the bottle where its supposed to be. (Not sure why its leaking in the first place, but lets just deal with the matter in hand). Returned home on a mix of roads. Did not look like ay further oil in the collection bottle but there was a drip of oil around the bottom of the air box. Will speak to the factory and see what is to be done.

Graham

I visited the factory last week and spoke to Karen, the bottle on the frame mod was strictly temporary I understand. I collected a smallkit bag of parts for an airbox mod as per the Mk2 commandos, which doesn't use a bottle, but a bracket and return trap arrangement. I am taking the bike to Krazy Horse this week to have it fitted. If you contact Norton direct or a dealer, this is a freely available mod kit.

Hi Thanks for the info I will be in touch tomorrow.

Previously steven_waight wrote:

I visited the factory last week and spoke to Karen, the bottle on the frame mod was strictly temporary I understand. I collected a smallkit bag of parts for an airbox mod as per the Mk2 commandos, which doesn't use a bottle, but a bracket and return trap arrangement. I am taking the bike to Krazy Horse this week to have it fitted. If you contact Norton direct or a dealer, this is a freely available mod kit.

Hi. I have a 2016 MK11 961 sport that still carries the small plastic bottle on the frame with thetiny black pipe from the base of the air box. Thus far, 700 miles, it has collected no oil, my engineoil level hasn't dropped noticeably and I am yet to remove the air filter to check for any oil in the air box. My first service is tomorrow Tuesday 12th so I will have a peak tonight. My slow running is still a touch erratic and can occasionally stall when shutting down the throttle so I am hoping that this is not due to oil in the air box and that a tweak with the fuel mapping may help. I love all aspects of the bike and have followed all the posts over the past couple of years with the ups and downs. The Mk11, I hoped, should have ironed out andeliminated some of the earlier issues but the 961 is still evolving and some niggles are to be expected and from whatI have learned Norton appear to be quick in sorting these problems.

Mark.

Further to my earlier post in response to 'oil in airbox' having now looked in the light of day the small 'temporary' plastic bottle that acts as a catch for oil in the airbox on my MK11 961 is/was 3/4 full. The airbox was naturally clear. I can see that without the drain that a good 250ml would be floating about in the air box at every 1000 miles or so??

I will point this out to the guys at Krazy Horse whom are servicing the bike tomorrow.

Mark.

Hi Mark George at Krazy Horse is aware of my problem and has already been in touch with the factory regarding the remedy.

The attached photos show the state of the airbox, filter and seat underside after I returned from attending the NOC AGM. The total journey was just under 400 miles, covered in 7 hours of riding. Mostly at 70mph, except on the M1 which, as usual, was limited to 50mph between cones.

The alarm bells rang for me when I checked the oil tank level, a few days later, and discovered it well below the 'low' mark on the dipstick. 300ml brought it back up to just below the 'high' mark.

A check of the air filter revealed where most of the missing oil had gone. As the pics shows, the airbox gave up enough black gold to fill a 250ml bottle and still leave 50ml for the small container alongside. Not included is the oil mopped out of the airbox and any swallowed by the engine.

I am certain this redistribution of oil explains the grotty idling my bike keeps suffering from and the pathetic fuel consumption of between 38 and 45mpg. You start the engine and it revs its head off at 1800 rpm for around 1 minute. You drive off and the damn thing then cuts out at every junction for the next 3 miles. Once warmed up, the idling speed can then be anything from 1100 to 1800 rpm. GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!

The seat underside was once again covered in dust and waterstains.

Hello Phil. haven't got a 961. just wondering if the main air intake to the filter box is made big enough to cope with higher revs / increased air flow if not the engine would be struggling for air trying to make up for it some how through engine breather or the like possibly sucking oil up on its way. just a theory. Baz

You could be right with your suggestion Barry. There is no obvious pattern to the problem butI am beginning to suspect that this disappearing trick is happening when the engine is revved above 5000rpm for more than a few seconds . Three times now I have discovered the oil tank level has dropped significantly. Each time after lengthy runs.

Regularly checking the oil level in the tank is a real pain. You can not always do it at the end of a run and the manual procedure for a cold engine just invites complaints fromthe neighbours. On my old 750 Commando this was a quick 30 second task. Not 7 or 8 minutes.

Likewise, checking the air box for oil inside it is a game and a half. You need to remove two sets of socket screws and then move the wiring looms before you can pull out the filter. Wave goodbye to an hour of your day if there is any oil that does need removing.

Previously graham_leblond wrote:

Hi Mark George at Krazy Horse is aware of my problem and has already been in touch with the factory regarding the remedy.

Hi Graham.

My service went well with the exception of krazy horse not having the software for the Mk11 to remap my idle valve. On the Mk11 Norton have reverted to the omex box (not sure of the spelling) so the software theyheld does not suit. The omex units werefitted to the very early 961's so I'm told.

I queried the use of the bottle fed from the air boxand mentioned theMod even quoting the part number but onlyreceived a confused look.

The trip for me is a 180 mile round trip and as luck would have it on this occasionin torrential rain, on my return not only did i have a small amount of oil in my bottle but also some water. This must have thrown in under the seat and into the air box.

My bike has done 700 miles. I have been told to give the bike at least another 1000 miles before attempting any remapping as it takes time to bed in??

regardless, and like so many others, i love the bike. For me the only niggle is the slow running and the occasional stalling whenshutting down the throttle. Its a nightmare in traffic.

Mark.

Mark

I have the same problem, start the bike piss around with the throttle untill the engine idles and leave for several mins to warm up, blip throttle revs rise drop and engine dies this is after having the latest remap. Of course this also happens unpredictably whilst riding its like the ECU can't keep up with the fuelling. I've been informed that this crap running can be a result of oil in the airbox but I don't have that problem.

Luckily I'm old school and can ride around most problems but this is irritating and not good on clutch internals or starter gear. the only time my bikes slow running was good was when I fitted a slug in the air pipe but the factory removed this because it was not an approved fix. Now my bike is out of warranty I might re do this and see what happens. Terry

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Mark

I have the same problem, start the bike piss around with the throttle untill the engine idles and leave for several mins to warm up, blip throttle revs rise drop and engine dies this is after having the latest remap. Of course this also happens unpredictably whilst riding its like the ECU can't keep up with the fuelling. I've been informed that this crap running can be a result of oil in the airbox but I don't have that problem.

Luckily I'm old school and can ride around most problems but this is irritating and not good on clutch internals or starter gear. the only time my bikes slow running was good was when I fitted a slug in the air pipe but the factory removed this because it was not an approved fix. Now my bike is out of warranty I might re do this and see what happens. Terry

Terry. mine starts and ticks over fine from cold. If when riding you shut the throttle completely to the stopand pull in the clutch when approaching a junction ect she will tick over as youroll to a halt but attempt to use the throttle on low revs to inch forward and she will eitherstall or the revs will fluctuate between 1500 and 2000 uncontrollably.So I rev the nuts out of it and slip the clutch but this makes you look like a right twat and doesn't do the clutch muchgood either. Once moving and your above 2000 rpm then all is well but at some point you know that you have to stop!! its like having aneco function as you pull up the engine stops.

Colin at Thor Motorcycles Bodmin was very helpful and explained all. Its to do with the idler valve. If you call him or mail him he can put your mind at rest. In his experience its best to leave a remap until the bike has covered a couple of thousand miles?? In the meantime I will just have to keep looking like ive just past my test.

Mark.

I've found starting it without touching the throttle often results in a good idle from cold - not always though!

A fellow SS owner just had the factory oil in air box fix fitted. He didn't like the look of it, but he has subsequently reported it appears to be working! My bike will be going in for the fix week after next.

Like Mark I have to ride around like a novice until the engine has got hot. This is no fun when trying to get through town in busy traffic. My 961 also goes into bad idling mode when the low fuel warning light appears. With all the signs of fuel starvation.

People keep telling me that because this is a 'new' Norton I ought to be prepared to accept there may be teething problems. But these bikes have been in production for more than 7 years now so you would have thought by now that most of the engine management problems should have been sorted.

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

Like Mark I have to ride around like a novice until the engine has got hot. This is no fun when trying to get through town in busy traffic. My 961 also goes into bad idling mode when the low fuel warning light appears. With all the signs of fuel starvation.

People keep telling me that because this is a 'new' Norton I ought to be prepared to accept there may be teething problems. But these bikes have been in production for more than 7 years now so you would have thought by now that most of the engine management problems should have been sorted.

I have a couple of Amal carbs I took off my Mk111, I wonder if they would fit?

Mark.

Strangely enough, I have now met quite a few 961 owners who have asked about the retro fitting of real carbs such as Mikunis. Do Triumph owners have these engine management issues?

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

Strangely enough, I have now met quite a few 961 owners who have asked about the retro fitting of real carbs such as Mikunis. Do Triumph owners have these engine management issues?

Although unqualified to comment (and open to 'let's all knock the 961' abuse) I was 'interested' to read two articles in a 'Classic' bike magazine, which I'd originally bought for a Mk3 Commando article.

These had tests on a 1.7 litre (!) Triumph twin, and a 'New' Enfield Bullet, both 'old' designs dragged screaming into the 21st century with fuel injection, engine management et al...

BOTH were praised for slow running and starting, and throttle behaviour in general, so it IS possible.....

Gents

I don't know if the oil in the airbox and poor idling are related, but the oil issue seems to be something fairly recent, as my 2013 SF does notdump oil into the airbox, or use any noticeable amount of oil.

When I first had this bike it used to run badly in heavy traffic - picking up the throttle after over run at 1500 -2000 rpm used to make it splutter and jerk in a really annoying way, I used to have to 'hang' it on the throttle to try and keep things running smoothly.

This was pointed out on 2 subsequent factory service and upgrade visits, it was said to have been re-mapped, but the bike was always delivered back with the same problem.

Forward to 2015 and a visit to the factory to pick up another 961, I took the original bike with me for the present service technician Mark to have a look at. He immediately diagnosed a broken Idle Control Valve, fitted a new one, and the bike now runs perfectly.

This had been missed or was not known about by the previous service technicians, who no longer work for Norton.

I suggest any one with the same problem speak to Mark (via Karen) he is the most helpful person imaginable (and Karen the same), and he knows 961's inside out.

Roger

Having just put the bike on a dyno it was interesting to observe that the oil was only apparent during periods of high rpm. I suspect those who have not had issues may not be spending much if any time at high rpm i.e north of 5,500rpm.

I had no issues for the first 1,000 km because of the restricted rpm required for the engine running in period. Once I started opening it up above 5,500rpm the oil suddenly made an appearance.

Riding the bike conservatively to the dyno shop - no sign of oil. A few hard pulls to the red line and oil everywhere. The bike btw made 70hp at the rear wheels with the stock pipes - add approx. 12% for transmission losses and you have approx. 80hp at the flywheel.

I had an Airbox full of oil at the 500 mile service. The bike was still being run-in and had never gone above 5000 rpm. The engine was cutting out and not idling. The service cured these problems but the disappearing oil trick returned by the time 750 mile were on the clock. The other clue being the fuel consumption going down below 40 mpg.

I rode the bike to the NOC AGM and back cruising most of the time at 70 mph. It was a real surprise to find the oil tank level so low immediately after this journey. I had plans to ride my bike to the Rimini International but the possibility of the problems re-occurring have now put me off this idea.

The factory are happy to have the bike back to check it out but I have to leave it with them for 3 to 5 days and make arrangements for transportation. Costing up to £300. My wallet has gone into hiding!!!

I have had the Air box fix done by Moto Corsa who were brilliant. They provided me with a loan Norton 961 for the day while the work was carried out.When I picked the bike up not only had the issue of oil in the airbox been fixed but they had also remapped the fuel injection system resulting inmuch smoother low speed running. I have now got some miles on the bike with the oil filled to the upper mark on the dip stick and no oil has appeared in the air box the.

Concerning the starting procedure I was told that when the bike is first switched on the throttle should not be touched until the buzzing had stopped. Apparently the throttle position sensor recalibrates itself each time it is turned on. Also start the bike with the throttle shut it should start and idle, let it idle for ashort while before blipping the throttle.

The only serious problem I have with the bike is not being able to stop smiling like and idiot when riding it