Norton 19S and ES2

The Model 19 has a lower compression ratio but probably has a bit more torque, but the top speed difference is not really a decisive factor when choosing between these 2 models. The ES2 will be easier to get parts for and a lovely engine in a Featherbed frame, but it's down to personal choice which one you prefer.

If you're looking for something fast then a pushrod single Norton probably isn't a good choice, unless you give it to Mike Pemberton and let him breath on it.

I have a 1955 ES2 and it's a very pleasant bike to ride. It's swinging arm single downtube model and the handling is fine. Acceleration isn't brisk but it will cruise at 60mph two up all day. Top speed is probably just over 70 but i've never really tried to find it's ultimate speed. The vibration over 60mph gets pretty unpleasant so I rarely go over 60 for more than a few moments. I'd imagine a 19S would have similar performance as I believe it was designed with sidecar use in mind.

Ian

I have a model 19 rigid which has the same engine as 19S.

I think the only parts it does not share with ES2 is the crankshaft, piston, cylinder and push rods.

But what a lovely engine it is- smooth and a real torque monster. I geared mine right up so that it lopes along at 50 to 60 mph on a whiff of throttle and it will still climb almost any hill in top gear.

Opening the throttle can give you another 10 mph but the engine is noisier and less happy, and that is not what this engine is about.

I think the model 19 engine is the unsung hero of the Norton range.

I was refering to the engine when I said ES2 parts are easier to get. A friend of mine has just rebuilt a Model 19 engine and had great trouble finding a piston, they aren't often seen for sale. Luckily I had a NOS 82mm +60 on my shelf. I'm sure the 600cc is a lovely bike to ride. My ES2 gets up to 70mph without any problem, so I think the performance is comparable.

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

I have a model 19 rigid which has the same engine as 19S.

I think the only parts it does not share with ES2 is the crankshaft, piston, cylinder and push rods.

But what a lovely engine it is- smooth and a real torque monster. I geared mine right up so that it lopes along at 50 to 60 mph on a whiff of throttle and it will still climb almost any hill in top gear.

Opening the throttle can give you another 10 mph but the engine is noisier and less happy, and that is not what this engine is about.

I think the model 19 engine is the unsung hero of the Norton range.

Previously dave_graham1 wrote:

I was refering to the engine when I said ES2 parts are easier to get. A friend of mine has just rebuilt a Model 19 engine and had great trouble finding a piston, they aren't often seen for sale. Luckily I had a NOS 82mm +60 on my shelf. I'm sure the 600cc is a lovely bike to ride. My ES2 gets up to 70mph without any problem, so I think the performance is comparable.

Previously peter_stowe wrote:

I have a model 19 rigid which has the same engine as 19S.

I think the only parts it does not share with ES2 is the crankshaft, piston, cylinder and push rods.

But what a lovely engine it is- smooth and a real torque monster. I geared mine right up so that it lopes along at 50 to 60 mph on a whiff of throttle and it will still climb almost any hill in top gear.

Opening the throttle can give you another 10 mph but the engine is noisier and less happy, and that is not what this engine is about.

I think the model 19 engine is the unsung hero of the Norton. TOMMY--/// HI. I STARTED WITH A 350 MOD /50. AND WAS LUCKY I PICKED UP A MOD-19-ENGINE AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE I LOVED IT AND AM NOW BUILDING UP ONE FOR THE ROAD. IT IS SLIGHTLY SLOWER OFF THE MARK THAN AN ES2 -BUT I LOVED IT ,CHANGING DOWN A GEAR FOR HILLS IS RARE, AS IT PULLS LIKE A TRACTOR. WELL THE NOTE IS DEEPER THAN THE ES2. I NOTICE SOME HARLEY BOYS TURNING DOWN THE IDLE SPEED TO MAKE THERE TWIN SOUND LIKE A SINGLE AND THE ENGINE DOESEN'T LIKE IT-NOT TO MENTION THE OIL FEED WILL BE SLOWER, WHY DON'T THEY JUST GET A SINGLE-CYLINDER // I WOULDN'T SLOW DOWN MY DUCATY'S IDLE TO TRY TO MAKE HER SOUND LIKE A SINGLE.. I HAD A FLAT-HEAD HARLEY AND LOVED IT TOO.. ANYWAY I HAVE A MOD-19 +40". PISTON THAT I NEED RINGS + GUDEON PIN / BARRELL-STUDS + PUSH-RODS FOR.. ANY IDEAS WHERE I CAN TRY.. THANKS.. TOMMY-NORTON.

Hello,I have owned my 1955 19s for 30 years and I have used the bike very much and hard.I have also owned a 1957 ES2 but the 19s is MUCH more powerfull and faster.You can also go for a postwar Big4 piston and get a little higher compression. I have this type piston in my engine.I have found my piston and rings at eBay.Regards from Svein.

I purchased a 1951 Norton special. It is an ES2 plunger  in what looks like a Hillclimb set up. it has a the addition of a fatter rear tyre and girder forks at the front. On the side of the crankcase it has 92x100 which gives a capacity around 665. It certainly performs like it!

 I previously spoke briefly with Mike Pemberton about the possibility of increasing the capacity of an ES2 to take a 92mm piston, he didn’t think it likely. I now think that the top end is from a modified 19s.

 I was told that the machine was built by an engineer from the Ipswich area, do any members know the bike?

thank you, Chris Bridgett

Hi Chris,

   I do not know of your bike's history, but the heavy plunger frame wouldn't be first choice for a hill climb machine. If you have a standard ES2 cylinder barrel the maximum safe bore size is 84mm, and this is only on post 1947 engines. Are you sure the the 9 is not a faintly stamped 8 ? The only sure way is to lift the head.

thank you Richard

it is a definite 92x100. Yes, lifting the head would give the answer but curiosity will have to wait until the head needs to come off for another purpose.