Hello from a newbie. Frame identification question 11M and 11M2

Hi Nigel,

   Apologies for not replying earlier to your question. Firstly, welcome to the NOC website forum(s).

   The difference between the 11M and 11M2 is the featherbed frame. The name Manx was first officially used in 1946, although the 1939 model was called the Manx Grand Prix, and these had the older "Garden gate" frames with plunger suspension and used frame numbers such as C11M which indicates a 1948 499cc. When the featherbed frame was introduced for public sale in 1951 the frame (and engine) number was changed to 11M2 to differentiate them from the earlier type, so K11M2 would be a 1955 499cc with featherbed frame and short stroke engine.

   If you are thinking of buying one you really need to take someone who is fully conversant with the original specification as there are a lot of people ready to rip you off !

Nigel????  

  There are many good people out there who know this model,  Richard being one of the best!  But if your a 1000 miles away it will be a long wait.  Search out your local branch and go see  them I'm sure there will be a "cammy" man amongst them. 

  Also; on here describe what you want exactly and what you intend to do with it, and i'm sure there will be feedback from the club.

 I can tell you my experiences with F/Bed and G/Gate cammy Norton's but that relevant to using them on the road.  That may not be what you are intending.

 There are pitfalls and of all the models I think most mis-sold. They are a beaut thing to ride and  never fail to impress, but  not  the  easiest to live with. 

Cheers...

...and  Welcome  :-)

Jon

Hi Nige,

   My good friend Barry Stickland has corrected my inaccurate post with the following information. As I stated the 1951 Manx frames had the "2" suffix to deferentiate them as having the featherbed frame. Unbeknown to me was that this was discontinued after 1954, so I was incorrect with my K11M2 example. This was probably done because by then all camshaft engines were fitted in featherbed frames. Sorry for wrong-footing you on this, I should have double checked this rather than relying on my maturing brain cells. Barry is the best man to contact and is listed in the specialist contact section, but please note his contact window as he has family obligations to meet.

Jon,

  Thanks for your kind words, but my main interest are the Gardengate models, and although I've got one, featherbeds are new technology to me !

Nigel;   Good move, Howden; get to know who's who and let them know your interest. 

 Let us know how you get on at branch level,  you will probably get all you need there.  I am  Nottingham based and work in West Yorkshire so maybe we can meet up one eve if  your struggling to  find   what  your  looking  for..

Richard;   I'm garden gate/ Rigid  biased.  I had a F/bed inter which was not a pleasant ride, all a bit cramped.  The garden gate suits my build and is a reasonable ride too.   Between you and Barry I think all  the questions can be answered.

Cheers

Jon

After preparing a -59 40M which took me 4 years and now riding it a couple of times per year, I still have a lot to learn about them. So far I've learnt that the best source for information is riders and mechanics of them. Most of the bike is fairly easy (except the cambox) to tend to, being about the same as any featherbed Norton. Riding them is about the same as any dommie except that you have to always keep revs up. It's built for racing, not for plodding around. If I had known what I know today, I should have bought an used only a couple of years old Manx, instead of one with a lot of history. Equally fun to ride and no worry about 60 years old magnesium parts. But it's funny to point at the dents in the primary chain guard and tell that they came as chain broke at 6th lap at junior TT in -62.

Mike

to illustrate the confusion I thought I would add this Bonhams listing of an early featherbed they sold in 2011.  The frame number that they provide documentation for is a actually a 1951 garden gate that I own in the United States. They omitted the “2” after the f11m when gathering the information.  I found this by putting my frame number in Google for the heck of it. The agent is actually Indian Sales of Springfield Massachusetts, USA for the garden gate.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19290/lot/64/?category=list

The closest to a workshop manual I've found is an article in the MotorCycling magazine from April 11, 1957. My knowledge is limited to the shortstroke ones. If your main interest is to have one and occasionally ride it without stressing it you can go for an fairly original one. But racers at that time did a lot of repairs and modifications. In my case, I try to keep it close to how it looked when a friend of mine came 2nd in the Swedish championship in -67. Sadly the fairing has disappeared, probably after a crash. Compared to a Japanese sports bike, it can be said that it handles well and horrendous brakes. Also a lot more routine maintenance, but everything is easily accessible. One thing that makes it easy to fix a shortstroke Manx is that almost every part is available But at a price. I live in Sweden. Feel free to ask more questions.

Mike