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WD16H rear number plates

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After a fruitless search for a new rear number plate for my 1945 norton wd16H

i ended up with the only option left make one

check the attachment for the first prototype press tool needs a few tweaks yet but very happy with the outcome.

hoping to make a small batch available for others that need very soon.

cheers

duncan

Attachments number-plate.jpg
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That's nice Duncan. Are you making the top bracket as a separate pressing and welding it ? I suspect that the original will always be a scarce part as rear number plates were only fitted up until about the end of 1941 and most sold-off post war would have been fitted with later plates on demob.

The requirement to fit a rear plate to a bike that didn't have one is always going to be a personal choice but I think that the 1938-on / MT110 rear light type such as you're making is the most attractive period option.

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hi richard

it is one complete piece with the two brackets that bolt onto the mudguard all part of one sheet, also two of the holes in the one in the picture won't be there that was just on the test piece for alignment purposes.

i am really happy with it as it looks right and not too perfect if you get my meaning. i am not 100% sure on the legal issue about having to run the number plate on the road but to comply with all the speed camera's ect i suspect we all should have one. i know i would certainly not like to run any bike without a rear light.

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You've done a great job Duncan. There was a bloke selling new ones on ebay for £37.50, I bought one for mine, but it looks like he's stopped listing them now. There can't be that much demand to keep listing them and he probably got fed up with not selling any after the first few.

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hi dave when was this ? can you post a picture of the one you bought?

i have been looking for ones for months prior to ending up making one. i have seen a few that were similar but not exact copies.

to recoup some of the tooling costs i am in the process now of making a few more to sell on, will be putting them on ebay next week hopefully and will ship world wide.

i would have thought there was a good market for these as they are quite prone to damage and the dreaded tin worm.

will have some better pictures of the finished article to show soon.

cheers

duncan

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Hi Duncan, I've looked at my pictures and I bought it in 2010 the bloke carried on listing them for about a year after but I can't see him on ebay now. I've been trying to find him from the ebay feedback but it's impossible to know which one was him, sorry

Here's a couple of picture. I hope the links work

<a href="http://s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/Horror/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Horror/DSC02660.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

<a href="http://s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/Horror/library/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j331/Horror/IMAG1899.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

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hi dave thanks for posting that is very similar to mine is it a earlier version? the top mounting part is different to mine.

i see you have the field stand on yours do you know anyone that makes them? that's another item i have been looking for

http://i50.tinypic.com/wsra8n.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/avhcth.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/qx5f2e.jpg

i have finished 6 now one i am keeping for myself and the rest i will be putting on ebay over the weekend i hope to make some more soon if they sell.

cheers

duncan

ps just worked out how to post pictures (use the external link button)

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Hi Duncan

I had one of the ebay rear No. plates a couple of years ago, but it was not very good - made of steel that was way too thin.

Norton OHC specialist Stu Rogers stocks a much better version, made of 1mm thick steel. There is not much that Stu does not have - he even makes new rigid Inter. frames from scratch.

If it is of any help to you whenadvertising your No. plates, the Lucas MT110 tail light which this shaped plate was designed for was fitted to all Nortons from 1936 to 1948. This information comes from a Lucas Motorcycle Master Catalogue dated for 1936 - 1957.

Regards

Roger

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Hello roger

thanks for the info wish i had heard of him before building my own haha although it was a fun experiment i have made mine as per original which would have been 20 gauge so yes approx 1mm thick steel and quite hefty indeed.

regards

duncan

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The field stands are being sold at auto jumbles and often on ebay. Just had a quick look and here's one for £35 buy it now price, on ebay181019081003
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hi dave thanks for the reply

funny enough i spotted that last night as well it is the first i have seen come up on ebay, am i right in thinking it will still need a return spring and locating pin ?

i have listed 5 number plate mounts on ebay and sold one already :) if all these sell then i will look at buying some more material and making some more the design could be easily tweaked to match any of the variations on the top mounting flange, think i have seen about 4 different variations so far would there have been different suppliers making them for norton back then? or all made in house.

cheers

duncan

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just remembered

i am nearly ready to paint my registration number on my plate any tip's on how to do this?

stencil maybe? what was done originally?

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The field stand didn't have a return spring, it uses the weight on the bike to lean on the elbow of the stand. This is ok on grass but can slip on tarmac. It just uses a nut and bolt to fix it to the frame.Well done on selling some of your number plates. Personally I have only ever seen 2 designs of this type. The early one is more triangular on top and fixes with a single bolt to the mudguard and the later type with 2 bolts as mine is.Here's a link showing the differences;http://www.wdnorton.nl/Military_detail_variations_16H.htmAs my numberplate was new metal, I blasted it lightly to give the paint a good key. Then primed and sprayed itkhaki green. I maskedit around the edge with low tack masking tape and sprayed the middle mat black from a can. My mate has a vinyl cutting machine and made me a stencil. The 1st time I did it it pulled the paint of so after respraying and making another stencil. I used some hand cream on the underside of the vinyl, only leaving the glue at the edge of each letter. I then brush painted in eachdigit to give a sign written look.I copied the look from an old 1939 photo. Note the earlier single bolt numberplate top bracket.http://s1080.beta.photobucket.com/user/Horror/media/Nearly70ridersfromallpartsofthecountrytookpartintheTerritorialArmymototcycletrialinSheffield1stFeb1939.jpg.html
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hello again dave thanks for the info yes the two types i have seen on the fantastic wd norton site i have also seen a few other variations in pictures from more civi spec bikes such as mine i can only assume they are later made parts the one fitted on mine certainly looked untouched so i can only assume it was always that shape from new, i have to say it is a minor detail i can live with but the blank shape could easily be altered on further batches if i can get to make another batch.

i am thinking that a stencil is the way to go i have drawn up in photoshop my plate which i will print out and then cut out using a scalpel to make the stencil just got to figure a way to keep it stuck without pulling off any paint :) i was going to spray a clear coat over the whole thing after i had painted the numbers back on.

(i hate painting!!) i much more enjoyed rebuilding the gearbox if i am honest (fingers crossed the sealed bearings cure the worst of the leaking)

i quite fancied the field stand to use when at a show or similar when parking on grass where i would be slightly nervous of the normal stand sinking so maybe that is the way to go. still in need of a correct amal 276 pre revised version jetblock which seems another very tricky part to source.

it seems tracking down or making the parts is a huge part of owning an old british bike which is all new to me :)

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Duncan, like Dave, I'm only aware of two specific types of MT110 mount. The 'early' mount with the single bolt top fixing was used on civilian models with the ribbed tailpiece prior to 1937. It seems to have continued on the WD models for some time and there is a reference in the factory records to '1938 mudguards' being introduced for the WD bikes during June 1938 production.

This early plate was of heavier gauge and lacked the reinforcing rib - it was a simple folding.

At the point where the double fixing was introduced, the centre rib on the tailpiece necessarily disappeared, although somewhat oddly, it remained on the mudguard (until deleted during late wartime production).

I wonder if the cut-out on your number plate example was present to allow a late-pattern plate to be fitted to a pre-war ribbed tailpiece ?

This is my splinter-damaged 1939 rear end with original plate. The photograph was taken just before restoration was complete and the tyres were fresh from the mould. Seconds after the photo was taken, the back wheel began to slide and the wretched stand collapsed over-centre. I stood frozen, watching it through the viewfinder !. Fortunately the 8" headlamp survived.

[IMG]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg164/commando16h/NOC/Rearnoplate.jpg[/IMG]

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Hi Rik, that sounds like I good explanation :)

One question I've been meaning to ask you, what's the wing nut on your numberplate for..? I noticed it on the original pictures.

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I have no positive evidence for the wingnut but it had been painted Royal Engineers Cobalt blue along with the number plate, prior to application of the Arm of Service serial so it had clearly been there since 1940.

I suspect that the some BEF units initially fitted the full size Arm of Service / 'PASS' plates that were used on other vehicles - this still from British PathÃ? certainly shows that :-

[IMG]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg164/commando16h/NOC/A1940BEFCU2.jpg[/IMG]

On this bike, only the bottom fixing has been used. I can imagine that it didn't last long before it cracked and fell off. The application of a further fixing higher up would have made it much more secure and I've used it for my number plate to save drilling extra holes.

Incidentally, if you've wondered why military bikes often have bent and twisted guards and number plates, the photo showing them being netted ashore in Cherbourg probably gives some clues...

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Richard

i think your idea is on the money regarding the cut out, it would indeed allow the plate to be fitted to a full ribbed mudguard as well as the smooth types so a one fits all type thing, i had never even considered that.

i do notice in the pictures the rear carrier racks have an extra brace going to the rear of the mudguard at a 45 degree angle i just have the straight ones on mine, are the extra braces because of thepossibilityof a pillion seat?

i was not surprised they changed the design from one mounting tab to two though, can't imagine them lasting very long at all heh. i could redesign the tab so it butted up closer to the mudguard but to add the slightly raised flange would mean another tool making and i think some buckling andstretching of the top mount as it stands now it is just the two tabs bent on their own easily with a round bar tool. i think i will leave the design as it is for now as it serves the purpose and still looks great in my opinion.

it takes over 10 tons pressure to get the definition on the pressed outer part on the plate. have sold two plates now which should be with the buyers early next week so await feedback on fit on other bikes. if they are happy with them i will press the 5 more blanks i have as soon as possible. after this i will need to buy more material and get more blanks punched.

my own plate is all painted up and ready for me to badly hand paint the numbers on.......... really hope i don't mess it up haha then i must finish painting the mudguard which is turning into a labour of love getting very tired of the filling and sanding almost at the point of that's good enough!!

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Duncan, if you do make some more then I think that it may be a good idea to make the cutout optional as it's not something that I can identify to date in period photos.

The extra rear mudguard stays were mentioned in the earliest, 1936, WD specifications but were never standard on civilian production. The factory ledger entry refers to "Extra rear guard extension stays to be fitted". In the parts books they appear as 3776 Auxiliary Stay. The WD main stay / lifting handle incorporates extra lugs for these but at the rear they simply fit alongside the main stays.

It would be reasonable to assume that they were fitted in response to a problem highlighted by the 1935 MEE tests. It was not permitted to carry passengers on military motorcycles at that time which might suggest that it related more to overloading of the carrier.

The auxiliary stays incidentally are 1/2" tube rather than the 9/16" used for the others.

I have an idea that the rear number plates may have been supplied by Lucas. There are certainly period adverts showing plates as part of their range and it would be logical as they also serve as the lamp mounting. The Norton pattern with the ear for the lamp is pretty well unique though.

I used pre-cut vinyl stencils for my military numbers, having studied the forms used by signwriters in the 1930s. When stencilled using a brush, this gave a better approximation than I could have managed freehand.

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hmm yes some sort of vinyl stencil would be the best idea, will investigate that.

ahh so the extra braces would explain the lugs on the rear carrier i thought they may be there to mount pannier rack. i don't intend to fit a rear pillion or panniers and if i can either make or find the simple rear hoop/ mudguard brace i will go down that route i think.

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First batch all sold :)

hoping to have another 5 ready by the end of the week which i will be listing to worldwide buyers, got some good feedback from the first few that bought and they were very happy with the quality

cheers

duncan

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don't think i need to trouble the dragons den just yet but at least they will help some people finish builds :)

after i have used the blanks already punched out i will have a go at making the upper tabs with the curved flanged as per original design, do you think it would be worth making a few with the single mounting tab? if anyone has one they could give me measurements of i would appreciate it.

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sorting through the blanks i had punched out i have another batch ready for sale they still have the same style cut out at the top, i can't change that until i get some more punched out but to correctly fold them to the original it will mean another press tool making up. maybe i can make that happen next year (fingers crossed)

So i have now 15 more to sell will post worldwide too at cost my ebay name is classicrsford or just search norton number plate.

better deals possible for multiple purchases and avoiding ebay rip off fee's (final value fee is £4.52 for each one i sell via ebay)

if you are wondering about the ebay username i gave up rusty fords for rusty nortons :D hehe

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Your plates look very simular to the plate for a '48 ES2 (a2/532). Do you know if anyone fitted one of yours to a '48?

B

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hi byron got your message on ebay

sure i can do a better price than the ebay one if done outside of ebay, i will need to check cost of postage to canada though drop me a email on mk1rs2000@hotmail.com with youraddress so i can get a quote for postage and give you a price

cheers

duncan

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Hi Duncan,I have just picked up on the thread of posts for the Norton 16H Number plates you have manufactured and was wondering if you have one left at all? I have a 1939 16H which having been civilianised in a previous life in India has the non spec square plate fitted.If you have one could you let me know the price including postage to NE23 7XS?Many thanks,John Storey NOC # 105202Johnstorey52@hotmail.com

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Evening Duncan,

Gotyour package in the post. Very well constructed rear plate. One more part for my poor basketcase!

Cheers,

B

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thanks for letting me know it arrived safe byron very glad your happy with it also no reason you can't paint that bit ready to bolt on ;)

john will send you a email now :)

cheers

duncan

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Good morning Duncan,

Just a quick message to let you know that I received the number plate this morning and to say that I am a highly satisfied customer is an understatement.

For anyone thinking about a period number plate for their bike you should look no further than these, the quality of manufacture and materials used are absolutely top class, this coupled with next day postage and being well packed makes the plate excellent value for money.

Many thanks,

John

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Hi Duncan,

I know that I've picked up on this a bit late but whilst looking for a decent rear number plate for my WD 16h I came upon this thread and I'm now wondering if you are still making the plates, I don't like the look of the Indian copies.

How do I go about getting hold of one mare by you ?

Thanks and kind regards John.

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Hi John, if you look at Duncan's name on his posts, it's not highlighted as a link in blue. This is highlighted when someone is a current member of the NOC. As his name is not highlighted he is no longer a member of the club so may not read you're commentsad

But fingers crossed that someone else can help you.

 


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