Unfit classic parts

The most impressive I had was a camshaft - not cheap - which hadn't been hardened at all. Had to do a complete engine strip to extract it as the cam lobes disappeared. Had a devil of a job to get the suppliers to replace it, despite getting it hardness tested and a full report from a university engineering department. However, most reputable suppliers seem to provide good quality parts most of the time. And it is actually quite surprising just what is available these days for obsolete 50+ year old bikes which are long past their design lives. Keep up the good work Les & others. If you go back to the 1970s, what little that was available was, with very few exceptions, extremely poor and no doubt contributed to the reputation of British bikes being unreliable.

Hi all,

In my experience pattern parts are nearly always utter crap. So far I have had to alter some things for example a centre stand spring....half an inch too long; spent an hour shortening and re-bending the loops to make it work. I did ask for the right item.

Some of the pattern petrol tanks are utterly appalling I mean can't they even get these right? The Model 7 tanks are the worst examples I have ever seen of pattern tinware. They look like a five minute job by someone wearing a blindfold.

I now will only but authentic, original parts even though it takes months to find some things at least they'll fit first time and properly and won't fall apart the first time they are used.

Jim

There certainly is some junk out there. Of course, it is generally better to use genuine replacement parts if they are available, but quite often they are not. As an example, I saw a repop Lucas headlight like the ones fitted to ES2s etc around 1950. From a distance it looked convincing, but on closer inspection, the threaded mountings were not concentric by a long way, which would have meant that it would not have fitted any bike.

I also notice that there is a lot of misrepresentation going on. I have seen ammeters with "Lucas" on the face which were not Lucas products. Come on Joe, where are your lawyers? Time to close down the manufacturers and purveyors of these counterfeit products, they are about like 20 quid Rolex watches sold by spivs on the street and email spammers.

Jim Royce previously wrote on Wednesday May 2nd 2012 at 11.33hrs:

Hi all,

In my experience pattern parts are nearly always utter crap...............................

Jim

Renovation Spares mudguards spring to mind.

Front ones (for Triumph) with the fork scallops 3/4" out of line.

Norton Slimline ones, with their triangular pressing hammered out by that blindfolded bloke. May have been a woman though.......

Much hooting & bluster when you send them back for a refund.

Paul

Hi all,

You canusuallytell a pattern mudguard a mile off, the radius is often wrong! I think the piece of string they use for measuringmust stretch a bit.....

To the pattern parts that are hand made the hard wayby those who both care and are made properly to exact original specskeep up the good work.

To those who do them cheap and ignore quality control andmeasuring devicesplease take the blindfold off now. Look at what you made and what the genuine article is like; yoursdon'tlook righteven at twenty feet. That's being nice as well, I notice further away than that!

Jim

I know what you mean about bits that don't fit. A mate and I have had loads of problems from partsfrom reputable dealers that still don't fit. I've assumed that as an enthusiast thay must all think that we'll take the time to fettle them to make them fit, sowhilst fettling these socalled "genuine" items I've made sure I've topped up theneighbourssupply ofearplugs. When talking to a bloke who works with classics for a living he confirms that unfortunately this is'nt rare and has a list of suppliers were he gets thing from that are the closest match! This is just crazy asbits 'aint cheap

I could add bucket loads to this thread with regard to duff gear for classic bikes.

I have a 40 year old original Commando and a newly built Dommie 99 Cafe Racer.

They both get used weekly to get me to work so have to endurevarious weathers and road conditions all the year round.

The Commando gets dirty but after cleaning looks well used but ok. There is the odd small rusty patch where Chrome, plating or painthas worn through but nothing serious.

The Dommie has only 200 miles on the clock but is corroding away before my eyes despite the fortune spent on it.

As soon as you go near the repaintedframe or tinwork with a spanner, largeflakes drop off at the softest nudge. Any fuel spills have to mopped up instantly or more paintwork disappears overnight. The primary chaincase now looks like a Zebra crossing due to drips from the carb!

I bought brand new Avon tyres to go on the wheels. The front one came with lumps of rust embedded in the sidewall. The supplier eventually changed the tyre but blamed bad storage as the cause.

My wheels were £400 of brand new rims and spokes fitted to new hubs. The rims were flangeless alloy combined with stainless spokes and plated brass nipples. When I collected them, they were both wrapped in heavy duty polythene sheet for protection. This seemed a good idea until I discovered that, inside this sheeting, both rims were covered in dirty handprints and layers of swaff. The swaff was the result ofprotruding spoke ends being ground down inside the rim well. The groves on the inside can not have added much strength to the integrity of the rim!!!

Worse was to follow when I took both wheels to a specialist for the fitting of new tyres. The fitter declared one rim as 'egg-shaped' and not likely to pass an MoT inspection.

Great news!!! I contacted the wheel builder to inform him of my concerns. He promptly accused me of talking 'bollocks'. When I asked if he could check them out he replied certainly, but first I had to remove the new tyres and then bring them over to his works for aninspection. Much as this seemed thea good suggestion,it actually meant having both tyres removed plus later replacing and a likely double trip totalling 200 miles to deliver and then collect from Mr Wheelbodger. Probably adding £150 to my misery.

While waiting for an opportunity to sort out the wheels, the recent wet weather has caused further problems with them. The stainless spokes are now going black and the nipples are loosing their plating.

Adding to this disaster is the new clutch cable which seized after a months use, the new kickstart which arrived with a 120* angled folding peg and handlebar levers that keep coming loose.

Moral: always buy old new stock for its quality and don't trust any dealer or supplier.

I had my wheels rebuils a number of years ago by the Devon Wheel Company - stainless rims and spokes, plated brass nipples. They did a superb job. The only small hiccup was when a few nipples (3 I think) started to rust - some plated steel ones had crept into the wheel build. There were sincere apologies and replacement proper nipples (rather more than 3) in the post immediately. Some suppliers are better than others.

Phil, As I'm about to send some hubs for rebuilding could you let me know where "Mr Wheelbodger" was located to save me from the same in case I've picked the same one?

If you don't want to name and shame publically then a pm would do or failing that the town in which they are located.

TIA

Mark

Yes, but I wouldn't buy chromed rims from anyone - the standard of modern chrome is usually dismal - hence stainless rims from Devon Rim Co. The obvious choice if you are going to ride your bike in winter salt, as I do.

Look for a site somewhere between Southampton and Salisbury. There can't be that many wheelbodgers in this region.

What really p****d me off was that I had been to the same place many years before andreceived a first class service, eventually having 6 Norton wheels rebuilt or repaired. The place looked professionally run and the chap in charge, at that time,obviously knew hishubs, spokesand rims. On collection, all the wheels were spotless and the standard of work faultless.

Many years along the road I returned, thinking that I would get a similar standard of service. Huge mistake!!!

As soon as I entered the workshop I noticed immediately the untidiness of the place, There was dust and swarf everywhere. I was then greeted by a 'Jesus' lookalike while in the corner an'anthropod' was drilling spokes holes using a hand held power drill!!!

I should have taken the hint and walked there and then. especially when informed that the business had changed owners.

Weeks passed by withregular phone callsfor aprogress check. 6 beautiful summer riding weeks eventually passing before an arrangement to collect was agreed.

Moral - go somewhere else..........it can't be any worse.

Phil, thanks for taking the time to reply. OK, well it's not them I'm going to as the place I was entrusting mine to are Central Wheel in Coleshill, Birmingham, they dida pair for me about 20 years ago and were fine. I just hope they haven't gone the same way as your previous wheel builder.

Moreon iffy parts, I recently bought a pair of stanchions from a reputable dealer, Wilemans, and the threads in the topresembled barbed wirealso one of the bottom fork bushes was short and unfinished that would have wrecked a slider in no time. I was refunded straightaway withno problem and I'm "thinking" I was unlucky. The stanchions in the end I got from Veloccette, just round the corner from me (now inMeriden Triumph No. 2 factory)who make them on site and look a bit more "professional" and bushes from Norvil.

So even forewarned I still get stiffed on bits, anyway must go as I've got to touch up the powder coated hubs I've picked up today as I've noticed a couple of chips in the paint, aarrrgggghhhhhhhh!

I had a good one a few years ago. I bought, on ebay, an 18" alloy rear wheel that had been fitted to a Dommie and asked a local wheel builder to move the rim across to suit my Commando. as the spokes where not quite long enough to allow this, he dismantled the wheel and fitted new spokes to one side. He struggled manfully to rebuild the wheel until he discovered the cause of his problems, the holes in the rim had been dimpled and drilled unevenly spaced around the rim by up to 3/8". He did get it concentric eventually with some custom made spokes. The name on the rim is brickyard wheels. Don't know if they still exist.

Oh dear! That sounds like the place I intended to get my wheels done! Not far from Salisbury and it had changed hands a few years back when the original owner sold out. They are at many shows and jumbles - always at Kempton Park where a chap fitting Phil's loose description is often present!

David - I think it might be "Brickwood Wheels" on you good one - it's the same place!You've been lucky then. I have Devon chrome rims which I'll be gettingbuilt onto my hubs. I will be clearcoating them before going on the road. I know it's a pain when you have to strip and re-coat, but it's better than flaking chrome or rust!

"Paint" flaking? I don't have anything to do with powder-coating for metal prats which are used outdoors - so that's bikes out of itthen! It has a lot of undesireable characteristics so I go for stove enamel as per the original. P-cdoesn't respond to touching up very well either because it isn't paint. No point in cutting corners and costs with powder-coating. "Yer pays yer money and....."

Cheers, Lionel

I have had over ten wheels built by Brickwood with either new rimsand stainless steel spokes,and they will even chrome your wheel rims to keep your wheels original.They will also finish your hubs by polishing and cleaning them.They take them away and deliver them from Kempton Park or the Ardingly show which they also attend. As for my magneto, well it was so called totally rebuilt by a very well know repairer and supplier of magneto parts in Bristol. I have had a huge amount of trouble with it, as the Dommi engine is hard to start when hot or cold. I will be sending it off to Bright Spark for one of their Easy Cap conversions, and it will cost me far less than that rebuild by the so called specialist supplier, in Bristol

Hi Anthony, before you send your magneto away, for more work, consider the Thorspark conversion from Sussex Motorcycles. Easy to fit (without removing the mag.), my '54 Dommi has never gone so well, and it take a close look to see it is no longer magneto ignition. John.

Doesthe Thorspark for the magneto, use the magneto's body like the one that Kirby Rowbottom does? Ifitted one of the new BTH electronic magneto's, to my 1966 N15CS. It did spark and the motor ran, now it does not spark, and the motor does not run. Asi had the BTH for a while they may now not change it. I was moaning about the Lucas K2F, thinking the BTH magneto would be a much better idea.

Previously wrote:

Doesthe Thorspark for the magneto, use the magneto's body like the one that Kirby Rowbottom does? Ifitted one of the new BTH electronic magneto's, to my 1966 N15CS. It did spark and the motor ran, now it does not spark, and the motor does not run. Asi had the BTH for a while they may now not change it. I was moaning about the Lucas K2F, thinking the BTH magneto would be a much better idea.

Hi Anthony, yes, you leave the magneto in place. You replace the points with an electronic "trigger" which connects to twin coils, hidden under the dual seat (in early Dominators, in the tool tray). Remove the old plug caps, tape the old H.T. leads under the tank, out of sight, and it is not obvious that the new leads do not come from the magneto. The kit costs £159, and can be fitted in less than a day, by a novice, or, a couple of hours by an expert mechanic. You need an ignition switch, which can be fitted in place of the old "kill" button. Initially, I used a simple "toggle" switch (because I had one!), this has now been replaced by a "barrel" switch, with key, which you can get from Maplins. Automatic advance is still controlled by the original unit. Initial timing set up is a little fiddly, but, fine tuning is simply a matter of moving the trigger unit a fraction either way, no removing the timing cover. Look at the web site, and, phone Chris for further information. Hope this helps, John.

I have heard good things about the Thorospark system. I like the Brightspark Easycaps, you use all your original parts, and add a tiny circiut board under the point plate. Cost way less than the electronic conversions, no need for twin coils, no need for an ignition switch, & only cost 13 GBP for a K2F ! A properly set up mag will work for years & is very simple. Here is a copy of some info from the Brightspark website

Capacitors are the commonest cause of 'internal' magneto failure. Despite their modest cost, replacing them requires time and a certain amount of skill. Often, it will only be undertaken in the context of a full overhaul and rewind of the coils.

Because capacitors fail more often than HT windings, our objective with the EasyCap has been to separate capacitor replacement and maintenance from the 'full works' rebuild/rewind, while at the same time empowering the magneto owner to tackle the work required for the initial fitment of one of our EasyCap products.

Our capacitors fit at the 'easy end' of the magneto (where the contact breaker sits), rather than being buried in the armature. They are available for an expanding range of common magnetos and magdynos. They take a few minutes maximum to fit or remove. Replacement becomes what it ought to be, an inexpensive routine maintenance task for the good of the overall health of the ignition system - just as as it is on vehicles with distributor and coil ignition.

Initial fitment does, however, involve disabling or removing the old condenser/capacitor that is in the instrument already. This is a delicate but not particularly difficult task, which we explain in very great detail. This is why we have made a series of special extractor tools, which are available for our customers at low cost. Drawings for them are available, for those who enjoy a bit of turning. Alternatively, you can send your armature or complete magneto to us for ourarmature or magneto service, and we will do the job for you.

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/

Hi Anna,

I was responding to Anthonys unfit mag repairs. So I guess, yes, unfit magre-builder, although that particular company he used, no longer rebuilds mags. Or to look at it another way, the original Lucas capacitors were unfit, as other Brands at the time made a much better, longer lasting capacitors. I tried the Brightspark conversion on my K2F for the '50 Model 7 & was so happy with it, and the companys website with easy to follow directions I decided to be one of the distributors in the USA .

I suppose that may make me one sided on this, but I really like the set up & they work a treat.

I can take this so called expert magneto repairers a stage further. I bought an exchange Lucas K2FC magneto from one Tony Cooper at Kempton Park may be about a year ago. I sent it to Brightspark for it to be fitted with their Endcap conversion and for it to be checked out to see how well it been put together. This magneto had never been fitted to an engine, never run,and it wasi was assured a new and rebuilt unit. Well that all went to hell when i was told that it really needed a new CB slip ring, the housing was chipped and damaged, and the internal capacitors were of the type that are not that reliable. The internal gaping was also wrong, and will have to be reset. The body needed remagnetizing, and it would not have been generating enoughof a sparkfor it to run at a lower engine rpm. So the message is clear, if you want a magneto to work properly go to Brightspark as i suspect most or if not a huge amount of these so called magneto expert repairers are just not worth their money, as you will end up having to do it all again with in a year or so. So imagine sitting in an ex RAF 1949aeroplane, when both magnetos failed, at 2500 feet, and you have to try and land the plane with no engine and trying desperatly not to crash on the runway on your final approach. That magneto repairer used to live in Biggin Hill, and he nerely killed four people.

Curiously enough, in 1949 the RAF were still teaching power-off landings as the norm, so losing both mags (really rather unusual) would not be a problem. Power-on landings really started with the early jets because they took ages to go from throttle closed (flight idle) to full power, so that if you dropped low on the approach with the throttle shut, by the time the engine wound up to produce decent thrust you had already become a gouge in the ground. A minor point...

I SEE THE CRAPPY WEB SITE HAS DELETED MY POST AGAIN. THIS IS GETTING TO BE A REAL BLOODY PAIN.

I'm getting in thehabitof copying my posts in case I lose it all, then I don't have to type it all again. It usually says error when I post something, which makes you do it again, only to find you've posted it twice..!

Not a good forum set up, with no edit or delete options that I know of either.

That so called Tony Cooper K2FC magneto has cost me nearly £190 extra to get it working correctly. I sent it to Brightspark who found a huge amount of problems with it and Ken Targett has now correctd all its really bad problems, and replaced the old CB cam with a new one, and machined that out of round bearing housing. So the message is clear, do not get our magneto repaired or buy an exchange one from Tony Cooper, as it could be bad for your pocket money wize.

All the magneto substitutes I read about incorporate electronic ignition instead. But can a standard magneto with dead condenser etc. be converted to simple contact breaker coil ignition? Most vehicles from the 1950's to 1980's manged without fancy amplifiers. I seem to remember trying to work this out ages ago - I think the central earthing lead brush on a K2 had to be used in a live circuit so it might not be practical on an an older mag with no earthing lead - but without research and pencil and paper I don't know if it is practical - but has it been done?

I'm at last getting my K2FC fixed - but will I regret removing a costly and reliable RITA in a pointless silly search for authenticity? Or should it stay on the shelf until it is needed? RITA is on a used Dommie - not a polished potential concours winner.

Well David, if you are not going for concours, (and who wants a bike too pretty to ride?) "If it aint broke, dont fix it!" As to converting a mag to fire up coil ignition, this is basically what the Thorspark system does, but without using the points. Probably you could devise such a system, but, you would still need a condenser (Brightspark?). However, with a working electronic system, and a rebuilt K2FC on the way, why bother? John.

Previously wrote:

Look for a site somewhere between Southampton and Salisbury. There can't be that many wheelbodgers in this region.

What really p****d me off was that I had been to the same place many years before andreceived a first class service, eventually having 6 Norton wheels rebuilt or repaired. The place looked professionally run and the chap in charge, at that time,obviously knew hishubs, spokesand rims. On collection, all the wheels were spotless and the standard of work faultless.

Many years along the road I returned, thinking that I would get a similar standard of service. Huge mistake!!!

As soon as I entered the workshop I noticed immediately the untidiness of the place, There was dust and swarf everywhere. I was then greeted by a 'Jesus' lookalike while in the corner an'anthropod' was drilling spokes holes using a hand held power drill!!!

I should have taken the hint and walked there and then. especially when informed that the business had changed owners.

Weeks passed by withregular phone callsfor aprogress check. 6 beautiful summer riding weeks eventually passing before an arrangement to collect was agreed.

Moral - go somewhere else..........it can't be any worse.

I agree with this.My experience (July 2012) is the same. I had good rebuilds before, and only when I got home did I see that a crap job had been done: protruding ends in the wells, threads visible at the nipples, bent spokes and none correctly seated in the hubs. Having parted with a wad of cash, I have no comeback, fool that I am. BEWARE, and AVOID these guys.

Previously wrote:

Look for a site somewhere between Southampton and Salisbury. There can't be that many wheelbodgers in this region.

What really p****d me off was that I had been to the same place many years before andreceived a first class service, eventually having 6 Norton wheels rebuilt or repaired. The place looked professionally run and the chap in charge, at that time,obviously knew hishubs, spokesand rims. On collection, all the wheels were spotless and the standard of work faultless.

Many years along the road I returned, thinking that I would get a similar standard of service. Huge mistake!!!

As soon as I entered the workshop I noticed immediately the untidiness of the place, There was dust and swarf everywhere. I was then greeted by a 'Jesus' lookalike while in the corner an'anthropod' was drilling spokes holes using a hand held power drill!!!

I should have taken the hint and walked there and then. especially when informed that the business had changed owners.

Weeks passed by withregular phone callsfor aprogress check. 6 beautiful summer riding weeks eventually passing before an arrangement to collect was agreed.

Moral - go somewhere else..........it can't be any worse.

Avoid Brickwood. I am biyyerly disappointed with the job they've done for me recently, and I paid cash..no comeback.