Registering bike without log book

is not easy if you do not have any log book.  You will need certification from the Norton Owners' Club to prove what it is.  It will be checked over thoroughly. Thoroughly.  Understand that I am being serious about that.  Can I re-emphasise?

If you have a registration plate and matching frame and engine numbers, but no papers you will struggle to be allowed to keep the old number.  If you are very lucky, the Council who originally registered the bike may have preserved the original registration records. If they did not, having no papers means you will lose the number.  FWIW I am restoring a Vincent which came to me with no papers, but matching numbers and a pair of plates and the last tax disc, dated 1960.  Once, that was enough to regain the old registration number, but no longer.  When completed, it will get an age-related number, with digits and letters swapped about. 

I bought and used my Norton in New Zealand, then imported it to the UK with papers. It got registered for UK riding before it was a running machine. They actually didn't ask if it was in running condition. Having a set of papers made the registration palaver a lot easier.  I was informed that another bike existed on the DVLA books with the same frame number - and I can expect that the owner of that machine got some close attention from the DVLA which was probably rather uncomfortable.  I had the advantage of matching numbers and New Zealand papers, and they gave me no hassle about the 'rival' for possession of the frame number.

On my inspection they were only interested in the stamping on engine and frame, I took it to a DVLA site on a trailer and it never needed to be taken off. That was 8 years ago so the inspectors are now outsourced and procedures may have changed but they had no interest in seeing it run 8 years ago. This was before the MOT exemption so I had MOT'd and insured it on the frame number alone.

was not an option for my bike. It was sold new in 1955 in Auckland New Zealand, and did not leave until 2015.  The frame with a duplicate of mine is in the UK.  I think it was a re-stamping done in the UK, hoping that a New Zealand bike would not surface in the UK. It would be interesting to find out.....

I don't think that you understood what I meant.

The practice I referred to would mean duplicate bikes leaving the factory with identical chassis numbers, the engines were just stamped to match the frames anyway, once the bike was built, why could your bike not be the duplicate one?, 'send the one with a straightened frame to New Zealand where no-one will ever notice', as I say I don't know if Nortons did it, but Velocettes certainly did, so did AFN, the 1930s-60s UK BMW importer. What is more, to know that such a bike had been exported the ringer  would have to have access to the factory records. If you place such faith in written records, Google " 'Albert Hall' and 'Rood Ashton Hall' ".

If the person who owns that that bike has done something dishonest, then they deserve whatever they get, but they may not have done, the factory records are not perfect, for example every De-Luxe is listed as having a 'D' suffix, yet, as far as I know, nobody has ever yet produced one that actually has such a stamping.

I once tried to register a 1958 BMW R60, which had a clearly original frame number, including BMW roundels which are just about impossible to fake, and which I had some documentation for going back to the 60s, and the DVLA just refused to register it, for similar reasons although the other bike did not even exist any more, eventually I had to scrap the frame and find another.

The NOC has factory records for most Nortons, and even without a record the Records Officer can usually date a bike to the satisfaction of the DVLA. What is essential is a frame number and engine number. You will get  an age related plate based on the newest main component, in practise this means the frame and engine. If there is any doubt about the authenticity of the numbers the Club will send someone to check but as long as the photos are clear this should not be necessary. The DVLA may require an inspection but this is only to confirm the information provided.

The starting point is to go to "Records" on this site. The records officer will be able to advise on whether you will be able get an age related number on the basis of your photos. Applications are referred and endorsed by the NOC. Gone are the days when you could trailer a bike to a local taxation office - there aren't any!

The NOC work off pictures of a complete and fully assembled machine. You can't check for roadworthyness from pictures despite what they say.

https://www.nortonownersclub.org/records/noc2

In order to apply to the NOC for an Official Date Letter/NOC2 you must have the following:-

• The fully assembled machine should be complete and roadworthy. Do not apply if the machine is not assembled or you have just the frame only.
• Images of both sides of the machine in it's current condition (2 copies of each) signed and dated.
• Sharp images of both Frame No. and Engine No. including all prefixes (2 copies of each) signed and dated.
• Please note: It may be necessary to remove the paint to verify the number. We cannot proceed with the application if the number is not clear. We often receive images that would be acceptable if the image was in focus, once again this holds up the process. 

You then have to apply for an age related plate from the DVLA, they may also want to physically inspect the bike as they did in my case, its a random check. But the bike does not have to run or have an MOT but be fully assembled and look the part if they inspect it like they did mine 8 years ago.

The above  is correct but what John Davidson wants to know is whether an age related registration is likely to be possible. The records Officer would be able to give guidance on the basis of the components including the engine and frame numbers.

A Q plate would be issued if there is insufficient identifiable evidence of date of manufacture.

Hi John,

A bit late coming to the party here but please get in touch with either me or Paul Nicholls in the Records Department. Both our contact details are on the inside cover of the Roadholder. We can advise and steer you through the correct procedures to get your Norton registered. 
 

Speak soon,

Paul Watkins, Records Officer, Post-War Singles