Oil consumption 961

Terry,

Had to top mine up before the 1000mile service as it was below the dipstick level. Have asked dealer to investigate and treat as a warranty issue as I do not think a new engine should be using anywhere near that much.

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Hi all

has anyone out there been recording the oil consumption on their bike after the first couple of thousand miles mine has been high and i've put this down to running in but not so sure now.

I remember that when the 961 was first let loose on the highways there were many, many postings about exceedingly high oil consumption. There were suggestions about oval bores, chrome plated bores, and bad ring sets. I do not recall that the factory ever made a wide sweeping re-call to fix the problem, but rather treated each bike separately, if at all.

Is there a consensus as to what the problem(s) was/were?

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Hi all

has anyone out there been recording the oil consumption on their bike after the first couple of thousand miles mine has been high and i've put this down to running in but not so sure now.

Hello Terry

Well, itseems that reality is unfortunately catching up on your bike too.It is about one year ago that you were stating that your 961 does not use a drop of oil (http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical6-961-forum/493279596?b_start=0#144186208).

My experiences (esp about oil consumption), as you certainly know already, were explained in the following thread:http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical6-961-forum/69724396

I really hope that Norton solves the problem for you, too!

RegardsRaphael

Hi Terry, I will be receiving my 961 in about 30 minutes. Karen points out a few tips, one of which entails checking oil level. I copy over her very words;

" ... Also, please bear in mind that our bikes do not need a lot of oil to run. Please always check the oil when the bike is warm and note that on the oil stick, there are two markers, the oil should be just tickling the bottom marker. It is important not to mistake it being low on oil and then over filling it".

Hope this helps. Roger

Previously roger_johnson wrote:

Hi Terry, I will be receiving my 961 in about 30 minutes. Karen points out a few tips, one of which entails checking oil level. I copy over her very words;

" ... Also, please bear in mind that our bikes do not need a lot of oil to run. Please always check the oil when the bike is warm and note that on the oil stick, there are two markers, the oil should be just tickling the bottom marker. It is important not to mistake it being low on oil and then over filling it".

Hope this helps. Roger

We already read and heard that one before... (giving a big yawn) For you Roger, I seriously hope that you will not get one of the "oilers".Wishing you many happy ridesRaphael

I bought my Sport in March this year and found that after a 400 mile ride the oil level had dropped somewhat . On mentioning this to Nick he advised me to remove the bung from the air box drain pipe and see what came out, Lo and behold the ammount of missing oil was inside the air box. Not burned by the engine but pumped from the rocker box breather into the chamber. At the moment Norton are looking into a solution for this

PS..........I love this bike, it has such 'Long Legs' just right for 'A', 'B', roads and of course the dreaded motorways.

Previously peter_banks wrote:

I bought my Sport in March this year and found that after a 400 mile ride the oil level had dropped somewhat . On mentioning this to Nick he advised me to remove the bung from the air box drain pipe and see what came out, Lo and behold the ammount of missing oil was inside the air box. Not burned by the engine but pumped from the rocker box breather into the chamber. At the moment Norton are looking into a solution for this

PS..........I love this bike, it has such 'Long Legs' just right for 'A', 'B', roads and of course the dreaded motorways.

.

Hi Peter

Yes, some of the oil is finding its way to the air box. But never all of the oil I was filling upagain and again before my engine was undergone treatment was found there. Most of it must have been burntas I have seen evidence of it. Others were telling of smoke from the mufflers...

Norton should have found a solution for this years ago, if they just start now for looking in my opinion it is a bit late, by far too late!

By the way, I lovemy 961too, now that is finally running almost as it should. But it was a long way to that...

Raphael

Previously terry_woods wrote:

Hi all

has anyone out there been recording the oil consumption on their bike after the first couple of thousand miles mine has been high and i've put this down to running in but not so sure now.

Hello Terry

Well, itseems that reality is unfortunately catching up on your bike too.It is about one year ago that you were stating that your 961 does not use a drop of oil (http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical6-961-forum/493279596?b_start=0#144186208).

My experiences (esp about oil consumption), as you certainly know already, were explained in the following thread:http://www.nortonownersclub.org/noc-chat/technical6-961-forum/69724396

I really hope that Norton solves the problem for you, too!

RegardsRaphael

Hello Raphael I know there is a floor in the engine design of the 961, But becuse I do not own one, I can then keep stum ! Well NO engineering is is engineering there is not much diffrence in the old Commado and the New one the only diffrence is the old Commado has been tryied and tested on and off the race tack and hand had many bench tests , were the 961 has only had road testing , NO bench testing what so ever , not even a rolling road , to test race bike on , this is one reason Brian Chricton left the Norton race team to go on his own Now a had his own team with his own 700 cc rotarys engines developed by BC ,and when Norton was racing the rotory 588 at the TT IOM Norton told the press they blowen two engines in the test runs well thats not right the blow one engine twice, and Brain was telling them these bike there not made and set up for the IOM TT they were only made for short currcit racing And he would not even look at the 961, so what dose this tell you all, there is a major design floor in the engine of the 961, that why I will not wast my time on one!! and why are there so many on ebay.uk yours Anna J

Previously roger_johnson wrote:

Hi Terry, I will be receiving my 961 in about 30 minutes. Karen points out a few tips, one of which entails checking oil level. I copy over her very words;

" ... Also, please bear in mind that our bikes do not need a lot of oil to run. Please always check the oil when the bike is warm and note that on the oil stick, there are two markers, the oil should be just tickling the bottom marker. It is important not to mistake it being low on oil and then over filling it".

Hope this helps. Roger

Hello Do you come from the numpty corner ! , if you have warm oil then the rest of the oil is around the engine somewhere , you should always check your oil with a cold engine before you start the thing, its the best way of checking any oil in a engine , now I go back to sleep , warm oil indeed ! were did that one come from ! yours anna j

Not eactly what it says in the manual.....

'.......If the oil has just been changed, start the engine and run it for 2 minutes at idle speed. This fills the oil filter with oil.

Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute to allow the oil to settle.

If the motorcycle has just been ridden, run the engine for 20 secs at idle speed. Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute.

With the engine warm - Check the engine oil by removing the oil filler cap (A). Clean the dip stick with a clean cloth and fully reinsert the cap by screwing it down fully.

Remove the dip stick and check the oil level is in the middle of the two markings (B).

Previously steve_brunt wrote:

Not eactly what it says in the manual.....

'.......If the oil has just been changed, start the engine and run it for 2 minutes at idle speed. This fills the oil filter with oil.

Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute to allow the oil to settle.

If the motorcycle has just been ridden, run the engine for 20 secs at idle speed. Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute.

With the engine warm - Check the engine oil by removing the oil filler cap (A). Clean the dip stick with a clean cloth and fully reinsert the cap by screwing it down fully.

Remove the dip stick and check the oil level is in the middle of the two markings (B).

Do you do this with a car, or any other modern motorcycle, !!!

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously steve_brunt wrote:

Not eactly what it says in the manual.....

'.......If the oil has just been changed, start the engine and run it for 2 minutes at idle speed. This fills the oil filter with oil.

Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute to allow the oil to settle.

If the motorcycle has just been ridden, run the engine for 20 secs at idle speed. Stop the engine and leave it to stand for 1 minute.

With the engine warm - Check the engine oil by removing the oil filler cap (A). Clean the dip stick with a clean cloth and fully reinsert the cap by screwing it down fully.

Remove the dip stick and check the oil level is in the middle of the two markings (B).

Do you do this with a car, or any other modern motorcycle, !!!

Yep - same for my 2013 Bonneville. According to the Triumph manual "An accurate indication of the level of oil in the engine is only shown when the engine is at normal operating temperature....". I can't really see why something like how to check oil level becomes another reason for sniping at Norton and being rude to other contributors. So one manufacturer establishes the level with the oil warm and circulated around the engine and another does it with the engine cold and the oil settled. I just follow the instructions in the manual.

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Do you do this with a car, or any other modern motorcycle, !!!

Just to answer Anna's question as a retired Car Fleet Manager I can confirm that with some modern cars yes you do! Some don't even have a dipstick any longer and you have to have the engine warm then switch off and leave the ignition on for around 2 minutes before the electronics will tell you the level. It's a real pain when you have several cars to check when with a dipstick you could check in a matter of moments!

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Do you do this with a car, or any other modern motorcycle, !!!

Just to answer Anna's question as a retired Car Fleet Manager I can confirm that with some modern cars yes you do! Some don't even have a dipstick any longer and you have to have the engine warm then switch off and leave the ignition on for around 2 minutes before the electronics will tell you the level. It's a real pain when you have several cars to check when with a dipstick you could check in a matter of moments!

well you live and learn new technology ! and I am not sniping at the Norton name or the owners that have purchased these 961cc motorcycles , you have this bit all wrong , mistifided ! yours anna j

Hasn't Anna never bothered to read a Norton handbook? Not the 961(which she does not, and is never likely to, possess), but those printed in the days of her beloved Bracebridge Street, The manuals clearly state " Always run the engine for a few minutes before checking the oil level" Obviously, after an oil change (particularly if a cartridge filter is fitted), this is even more important. Check when cold indeed, that goes back to the days of wet sump engines!

Hasn't Anna never bothered to read a Norton handbook? Not the 961(which she does not, and is never likely to, possess), but those printed in the days of her beloved Bracebridge Street, The manuals clearly state " Always run the engine for a few minutes before checking the oil level" Obviously, after an oil change (particularly if a cartridge filter is fitted), this is even more important. Check when cold indeed, that goes back to the days of wet sump engines!

Well your right John I never want a 961, there are many of them on Ebay . and I woulder WHY !! I love my Bracebridge built Nortons there the Real Nortons Too me, and that the way it will stay for me, I alway check my oil cold its has time to run to the lowest point by then and not half of it round the engine somewhere, there is nothing wrong with a wet sump engine that lest you know where the oil is and its got oil in the engine, Now even the Ford Transit Van get checked in the same way is the only way for me that make and sence, you can do has you like too, in your own ways of doing things have fun Yours Anna J

Previously David Cooper wrote:

It makes perfect sense to design a modern enigine for the oil level to be checked when hot. That way you can do it when you stop for fuel. And it's easier to arrange a warm engine (couple of minutes running) than a cold engine (maybe an hour to wait for it to cool down). Of course perhaps, like all 'real' Nortons they wet sump.

Precisely David, but, we are not talking about modern engines here, even the 961 is based on designs of over 70 years ago. If Norton advised running the engine before, checking oil level, presumably they had good reason. Few motorcycles are now used on a daily basis, this being so, how can you tell how much oil has seeped down into the sump. How a Transit van related to this thread I cannot imagine! Being a wet sump engine, almost all it's oil should be in the sump, when cold.

numpty plnumpties

Derogatory term for person or persons with troll - like tendancies, who join a club, group or organisation, on the pretence of having knowledge on all subjects pertaining to said club.

Characteristics can include a constant desire to miss-inform, often using juvenile grammar, much to the annoyance and frustration of other members of the club or organisation.

P.s. Have any other 961 owners managed to find the 'floor' in their engine. Could it possibly be the lowest part of the crankcase internal surface? Or even somewhere around the base of the cylinder barrel?

I'm not sure if your definition isn't a little contrived, but it is certainly accurate with regard to this topic. It seems such a shame that certain members, whilst clearly trying to be helpful, allow emotion and vitriol to take over some of their responses.

btw, I think thattendancies should read tendencies

Allan,

You are right about the spelling, schoolboy error, and a bit embarrassing under the circumstances . . . .

Just as a final for this thread, my 961 does not seem to use any oil.

Always good to air and discuss these things, but if anyone has issues with their 961, talk to Norton, they have the answers.

Previously roger_hainsworth wrote:

Allan,

You are right about the spelling, schoolboy error, and a bit embarrassing under the circumstances . . . .

Just as a final for this thread, my 961 does not seem to use any oil.

Always good to air and discuss these things, but if anyone has issues with their 961, talk to Norton, they have the answers.

Well you would think they have all the answers But they do not real know or this oil problem would not of gone on for so long and owners would not have had to pay out too fix the problem , by having there engine barrels rebored well before it was time from them to be done, just to cure this oiling problem , the reallity is the problem lies with the pistons has there Blanc piston from a Suburu engine then milled to fit, now if the milling is not done in the right way, You get the piston shape and its tolarences out and the piston ring have little effect in the bore, so then you get oil blow buy, ie oil consumption , this factor has been over looked or ignored , one or the other, but I think the Norton team are on a Learn curve , we all have to learn by mistakes , thats the hard way, of life, but the Norton team seam not to learn nothing much, that why some engines have this oiling problem and some do not . its the luck of the draw,But at the end of the day the Norton engine is made up from part made from all over the world and there is nothing much made in england , in there, we have been we have seen all, I was not that impressed , the way things were done, it all seamed a bit backward to me, in coming forward,the only really good part in this Norton engine is the Crankshaft its bullet proof not to shure about the camshaft geometry , or it timing sensor , that could be a weak spot later on , sensors do go wrong now and then, it all boils down to how good the electronics are, And its not a engine I would design, in these modern times, I would be looking at a V six something smooth running with bags and bags of power on hand, but that Me yours Anna J

Peter,

I also have been advised to drain the airbox on my April 2015 SF after a good ride. This came after two accasions when during heavy braking, oil from the airbox was sucked into the engine choking it off and producing a near biblical quantity of oil smoke which blanked out the road and took another ten minutes or so running to completely burn off. Not a good impression to make on other road users! My 400 mile round trip this weekend produced 1/3 pint plus some water as I had ridden through some atrocious rain this morning. I will start recording the amounts drained and look forward to a tested solution coming forth. Whether this happens during the warranty period or not is yet to be seen but In the meanwhile I'd like to hear from other owners about how often they drain their airboxes and how much they recover.

As with you, I just love this machine but could easily do without this particular characteristic. Anyhow, a good couple of hours cleaning and polishing lay ahead of me now in preparation for another good blast next weekend.

Previously peter_banks wrote:

I bought my Sport in March this year and found that after a 400 mile ride the oil level had dropped somewhat . On mentioning this to Nick he advised me to remove the bung from the air box drain pipe and see what came out, Lo and behold the ammount of missing oil was inside the air box. Not burned by the engine but pumped from the rocker box breather into the chamber. At the moment Norton are looking into a solution for this

PS..........I love this bike, it has such 'Long Legs' just right for 'A', 'B', roads and of course the dreaded motorways.