Euro 4 - any advantage over 3?

Hi Alan,

First assumption is that you are based in the UK. I just bought a new euro 4 Commando as I wanted the ABS and to choose a special paint finish plus options such as polished yokes and chrome sprocket.

I'm not sure if the exhausts are different for Euro4 but I have been recommended to replace them with the open 'loud' exhausts and decat option as these changes combined with a remap transforms the performance. These are recommendations from the factory. You might want to consider whether the s/h bike has the latest crankcase breather and if it has any options fitted as these can be eye-wateringly expensive on a new bike; eg over £500 for the polished yokes or over £800 for 'loud' pipes. Is it a factory pre-owned? If not this may be an option.

Mine has UD forks but I feel that the handling is way ahead of its performance so I can't imagine conventional to be a problem. Anyone else comments?

As an aside I absolutely love the look and feel of my Commando although you must ride one as it feels very different to a >2 cylinder sports bike. If you want any info such as engine revisions try Clem at the factory - he is very approachable and a great guy.

Regards,

Clive AM

Hi Alan - When I mentioned improved performance I meant a more refined throttle response rather than performance hike. Ask Clem.Personally I think the silver is the best colour - mine is a slightly more special silver - and I got the saddle updated by Saddlecraft with a special finish and gel inserts -I find that when riding I tend to push myself back in the seat against the bum stop. I am used to drop bars on racing cycles so the riding position is fine for me but maybe look at the bars fitted to the new California if you need something more upright?

The constant attention the bike gets is a true testament toits superb lines - I had intended to get a Thruxton but the brushed metal 'kitchen appliance'finish and overseas manufacturing put me off.

Regards,

Clive

Hi Alan - I went to the new model and anniversary launch on Sunday and after asking around the line does seem to be to remap, decat, and loud pipe it to 'transform' the response. Apparently the engine mechanical noise will reduce a bit after servicing and remapping.

As a NOC member the anniversary bike discount seems very generous - I'm a bit peeved not to have known that is was going to be available. This would get you a limited edition bike with all the latest breather etc mods and full warranty. They described this engine as bomb proof with no major mechanical warranty claims, which is encouraging. You also get the 'black line' forks which look great to the more traditionalist eye.

I would not get too worried about the USD fork issue - unless you want it for hard track use I would like to bet that you would not tell the difference on the road.

Hope this helps,

Clive

A silly question perhaps,but if you fit loud pipes, de cat the engine and remap the ECU, can you still comply with noise and emissions regulations? If so why did Norton need them in the first place? Also what is the view of the insurance companies with regard to such modifications.?

Non of the above matters if it is a track day only bike, but for normal road use you might ignore at your peril.

Please feel free to correct me but as far as I see it there are EURO regulations for NEW European registered motorcycles, ie it must comply with these limits when it leaves the factory door.

Then there are UK regulations for use on our roads, generally what it needs to get it through an MOT test, and particularly when it comes to noise is open to a certain degree of interpretation.

Once the bike has left the factory then so long as it complies with these 'on the road' UK limits then everyone is happy. The insurance companies situation is a bit more nebulous. On enquiring I have been told that mine is happy with factory supplied and fitted 'accessories' and a lot of companies will also accept aftermarket fitments if they are told about them; especially since so many riders are replacing their Euro dustbin exhausts. Hence my choice of the Norton pipes.

Regards CliveAM

Hi,

Beautiful bikes but....can anyone else see "Freedoms" being taken away, with all this Euro garbage?

The motorcycling community is walking into a trap that will end with no motorcycling at all!

Cheers

John H

I've been to the Motorcycle live show today and can clarify that the "Limited Edition" that Clive refers to is not the California but a 50 year Anniversary edition of their already existing Commando 961 Sport and CafÃ?' Racer models. They have loaded both bikes with most of the "pay extra" extras that they sell and have fitted the Sport with Upside down forks and the radial Brembo brakes. The standard price for theSport is £14,500 but loaded with extras that would normally pump the price up to £21,000 is now going for £15,500, The "fully loaded" CafÃ? Racer is 16,500. I know value is relative but compared with the standard price for these 2 models the Anniversary Edition is a steal.

Cheers Big Alan Clarke, Shenstone Branch Secretary

Hi Alan - You are pretty much right - we actually have 3 things going on here; the introduction of a new 'model' with the high bar California to sit alongside the Sport and Cafe Racer.

To celebrate the 50th anniversary a quantity of each of these three models is loaded up with extras plus some logos to indicate that it is an Anniversary edition. The list price of these is then being discounted.

So when do we get an anniversary Dominator???

This is all mixed up a bit with the usual great Norton offer of 'whatever paint, wheels, bar etc options you want we can give you'.When you think about it the different models are just serving suggestions.......

What do you think about the black line cafe racer forks? Make it look a bit more traditional or did the gold forks make it look a bit more 'sports'?

Hi Alan - The state of the web site has always been an issue for me and I have voiced this to Stuart.

On the AccessNorton web site under the 'a night at Donnington Hall' thread there are a few pics from the launch, or the Norton facebook page.

Look at the price of extras eg £600 for polished chassis, £245 for a carbon plate bracket (gives you an extra 10bhp), £250 for a carbon hugger, £225 carbon chain guard (extra 25bhp). Not sure if it comes with a louder exhaust but that's an £895 option....

The 'no major warranty claims' for the engine is from Simon Skinner - a very good engineer who looks after that side of things among others and is very passionate about the Norton bikes and their continual improvement. As an example he cites the choice of roller bearings for the crank. Note the current warranty is 2 years.

The euro 4 engine is mechanically the same with the changes coming from the mapping and cat. Interestingly enough the power lost in the bigger cat for euro 4 was clawed back with a different style. A lot of issues seem to have been with the crankcase breather which should now be sorted, although I hear that a lot of problems are from people not understanding the dry sump and overfilling, like I did with my 911.

The 50th anniversary emblem is not a stuck on sticker ; so no fears of washing away, the Road holder forks are the black ones from the dominator, all those anniversary models are well presented & finished,the short stubby pipes are louder than standard of course,but nothing like Harleyâs or race pipes on the jap bikes ,donât know of anyone being told off with the short pipes, & tbh it just looks like & sounds like how a bike should be

All

I might be able to throw some light on this topic:

* I have a 2017 ABS euro 4 sport,with 800 miles on the clock.

The bike was problematic from new, the engine mgt light came on randomly and the bike struggled to start when warm. I perservered as I love the looks, heritage and feel of the bike and tookthe short open pipe and decat option with remap at the first service(500 miles)

* I live about 100 miles from the factory in Cheshire, its a nice cross country ride so I was surprisedthat it would not idle at traffic lights on the way back from the factory. When I got home, I needed to move a car to get the bike in the garage but what ever I did( including open throttle) I could not restart the bike.

* It restarted the next day whencold but after a few miles enginemgt light back on and i only just got it restarted after stopping for petrol.

* The following day I was meeting some friends at ride to the wall, (it was pouring down which may or may not be relevant) but en route the ems light came on again with a bad misfire and I managed to limp home.

* Following date started sounded fine, no ems light so drove 20 miles to buy some summer gloves for an overseas trip I was going on( hired enfield not the Norton)

Unfortunately, when had I had bought the gloves, I could not get it started but finally did, and limped home with ems light on yet again.

Clem arrangedfor it-to be picked up and I am told that sensors lambdas etc have been changed and expect it back in a van this Friday.

*For me, it is its last chance- I have lost a bit of confidence but am hoping it is finally sorted. Whilst I am a sunday afternoon rider, I need to be confident it will not only get me somewhere, but back as well.

*On the noise front, the short open pipes sound wonderful, and help mask themechanical thrash from the engine- they are not police attracting noisy and would certainly pass an mot.

* I have a real issue in traffic or low speeds withthe wrist pressure, and bought some bar risers at the NEC which I hope will cure the issue. I agree the California would be great in town but an issue over 50 mph unless a screen was fitted, which would spoil the looks for me.

Hope this is helpful

alan dixon

Previously Clive Astley-Mynd wrote:

A lot of issues seem to have been with the crankcase breather

Good to see the new proprietors keeping up our good old traditions !

Previously alan_dixon wrote:

All

I might be able to throw some light on this topic:

* I have a 2017 ABS euro 4 sport,with 800 miles on the clock...

Really sorry to hear of your problems Alan - early on I had 3 temporary non-starting issues and after around 400 miles the MIL light was on pretty much constantly but was told that the standard mapping did tend to do this. What I never had was a misfire which makes me think there may be an additional issue there.

At 750 miles my bike is in for a service, decat, and a pipe swap. I am planning to get some 'noise-enhanced' long open pipes fitted and a remap. Everyone including Simon Skinner says what a transformation the mapping makes.

Please keep us informed how things progress I am not too far away if you want to compare symptoms/ performance issues. Hopefully you can get these problems behind you and start enjoying it properly.

Regards Clive.

Previously Clive Astley-Mynd wrote:

Previously alan_dixon wrote:

All

I might be able to throw some light on this topic:

* I have a 2017 ABS euro 4 sport,with 800 miles on the clock...

Really sorry to hear of your problems Alan - early on I had 3 temporary non-starting issues and after around 400 miles the MIL light was on pretty much constantly but was told that the standard mapping did tend to do this. What I never had was a misfire which makes me think there may be an additional issue there.

At 750 miles my bike is in for a service, decat, and a pipe swap. I am planning to get some 'noise-enhanced' long open pipes fitted and a remap. Everyone including Simon Skinner says what a transformation the mapping makes.

Please keep us informed how things progress I am not too far away if you want to compare symptoms/ performance issues. Hopefully you can get these problems behind you and start enjoying it properly.

Regards Clive.

Clive

just had my euro4 sport returned from the factory- now has a nylon gasket between cylinder head and throttle bodies to lessen heat transfer and fuel rail evaporation. Am hoping it will start when warm now.!

Weather too bad to test it.

Happy to meet up when weather improves- have never seen another 961 on the road!

regards

alan

Previously alan_dixon wrote:

Clive

just had my euro4 sport returned from the factory- now has a nylon gasket between cylinder head and throttle bodies to lessen heat transfer and fuel rail evaporation. Am hoping it will start when warm now.!

Weather too bad to test it.

Happy to meet up when weather improves- have never seen another 961 on the road!

regards

alan

Hi Alan - thanks for this info; it would be great to meet up - I've never seen another on the road. Certain individuals in NOC would say its because it's unlikely to have two 961s in a running condition at any one time...

My bike is Wintering at the factory after its first service and exhaust update (with the new long 'Clive's pipes' mod) so I will ask about this nylon gasket. As soon as the salt's off the road I'll collect it and let you know.

Regards Clive