Camshaft stellited

I have not heard of a camshaft being Stellited. Followers yes. Camshafts can be hot metal sprayed, Nitrided and so on but if you Stellite coat it you are going to end up with two identical metals in loaded contact which is not a good move. Try Newman Camshafts for a fix.

I'm with Phil on this, Stellite is a very hard material and probably only workable by grinding to shape. Whilst it is probably possible to have the faces metal sprayed and reground to the original form I would compare the cost of that against a new cam. Newman cams produce the PW3 cams in chilled cast iron, Les Emery's cams are from steel. You would need to decide which material is better. (Cue the can of worms) There is a possibility that the shell of metal spray could come adrift in use, not good.

I have not heard of a camshaft being Stellited. Followers yes. Camshafts can be hot metal sprayed, Nitrided and so on but if you Stellite coat it you are going to end up with two identical metals in loaded contact which is not a good move. Try Newman Camshafts for a fix.

Well phil Newman camshafts is what RGM use as there sevice people,

And its NOT 650SS camshaft , The Norton Manxman was the first 650 !

NOT the 650SS, the camshaft profile cam from the Manx, Designed By Leo Kosmicki hence the name Manxman , an all new motor design from the manx engine witha all new cylinder head profie and valve train for a higher perfomance motorcycle yours anna J

The NOC records indicate that the Norton factory set in motion the plans for a 650 engine in 1958. Production drawings for the 650 standard, 650 De-luxe and 650SS were finalised by May 1959 and parts were being made and tested by June 1959. The camshaft was a development of the QR camshaft which itself was a version of the daytona camshaft from 1956. Leo probably had a big hand in fine-tuning the profile but the ultimate version first went into a 650SS motor.

Unfortunately, the combination of SS cylinder head and SS camshaft proved too much for the adapted 99 barrels and pistons which resulted in a lengthy delay to the planned 650 model launch.

While this delay to sort out numerous engine problems took place, Bert Hopwood did a deal with the Berliner Corporation (September 1959) to import and sell a US styled version of the 650SS . This was to be called the Manxman.

This may be considered a "chicken and egg'' situation as the Manxman was the first verion of the 650 to be sold in numbers but the reality is that it was a version of the earlier 650SS design. (bib. Steve Wilson - Norton Motorcycles 1950 to 1986)

The NOC records indicate that the Norton factory set in motion the plans for a 650 engine in 1958. Production drawings for the 650 standard, 650 De-luxe and 650SS were finalised by May 1959 and parts were being made and tested by June 1959. The camshaft was a development of the QR camshaft which itself was a version of the daytona camshaft from 1956. Leo probably had a big hand in fine-tuning the profile but the ultimate version first went into a 650SS motor.

Unfortunately, the combination of SS cylinder head and SS camshaft proved too much for the adapted 99 barrels and pistons which resulted in a lengthy delay to the planned 650 model launch.

While this delay to sort out numerous engine problems took place, Bert Hopwood did a deal with the Berliner Corporation (September 1959) to import and sell a US styled version of the 650SS . This was to be called the Manxman.

This may be considered a "chicken and egg'' situation as the Manxman was the first verion of the 650 to be sold in numbers but the reality is that it was a version of the earlier 650SS design. (bib. Steve Wilson - Norton Motorcycles 1950 to 1986)

Well some of this information is correct, but the last part of it , right from the Chicken and Egg sindrome! And I have Read Steve Wilson books And some of his work as proved too be miles out! along with the work of Roy Bacon, If you had the copy of What ever Happend to the Motorcycle industry written by Burt Hopwood him self , in there it will tell you all about want really went on between Joe Berliner the plans were layed out in 1958

by Woolwich to try and have more exports to the USA and a new model of motorcycle had to be worked out , At first the new machnie was going to be a 600cc Norton Manxman and its styling layout was done by Jay-be Sach of Ducati , witch Joe Berliner at the time was also importing to the USA , He asked Bert Hopwood and his team to consider this design , and they did but Joe Berliner wanted a bigger capacity of motorcycle, so a 650cc motor was worked out by late 1959 , But the Manxman Name was on the New motorcycle from day one, and it was Woolwich that wanted a sports model and by Apirl they built the 500cc and 600cc Sports Speicals as a stop gap to give something to the Home market, and export market . By late august the 650 sports special verion was built out of the all ready built Norton Manxman 650 , Burt Hopwood had resigned by the time the SS models were built in April 1961, And he got completelly fed up of the constant battle between Bracebridge St works and Woolwich and the AMC Board , But having said all this , the New 650 Manxman was the only motorcycle to be over seen from start to finnish that Burt Hopwood had overseen and he was very proud of this new motorcycle, In his book you will see a photo of him and the US Consult behind the sences At the 1961 February Launch of the New Norton Manxman .... And Leo Kosmicki did Re-design The Manx Camshafts in 1948, After Charley Edwards had told Joe Craig Who the man was that was seeping the floors of the Experiment department, and it was Leo Kosmicki that was the only man to do the expermental work on the Norton Four, by building a single cylinder motor for testing , he had found that this motor could give out a lot of BHP, for a 125cc engine its was said by Charley Edwards that is give out up to 18 bhp, on the Dynamometer ,So times this by 4 your get 72 bhp out of a 500cc motor , these are all real facts I have cross referenced this information, Yours Anna J Dixon

Bert Hopwood's book is an interesting read but Hopwood's main purpose in writing the book seems to deny all his own mistakes and to blame them on others. A lot of the content needs to be treated with caution.

Wilson and Bacon tended to research painstakingly and I'd tend to believe their reports what happened and why more than the very biased views of Bert Hopwood.

Bert Hopwood's book is an interesting read but Hopwood's main purpose in writing the book seems to deny all his own mistakes and to blame them on others. A lot of the content needs to be treated with caution.

Wilson and Bacon tended to research painstakingly and I'd tend to believe their reports what happened and why more than the very biased views of Bert Hopwood.

Well do you not think that I have done years of pain-staking work on this subject, and I owned Norton motorcycles for 43 years I bought parts from

Taylor Mattison , and I raced norton too, I have world wide connection with a lot of friends , and think his book is a fair account from a engineers point of vieue and Steve Wilson and Roy Bacon account of engine number dates are out by months, like the first 650 engine number in Bacons book was not just out by months but out by year and the wrong engine number all together

it was Not Number 18-100200, but engine /frame number 18-93601,november 1960 witch nether of them have in there books, Yours Anna J

Bert Hopwood's book is an interesting read but Hopwood's main purpose in writing the book seems to deny all his own mistakes and to blame them on others. A lot of the content needs to be treated with caution.

Wilson and Bacon tended to research painstakingly and I'd tend to believe their reports what happened and why more than the very biased views of Bert Hopwood.

Well do you not think that I have done years of pain-staking work on this subject, and I owned Norton motorcycles for 43 years I bought parts from

Taylor Mattison , and I raced norton too, I have world wide connection with a lot of friends , and think his book is a fair account from a engineers point of vieue and Steve Wilson and Roy Bacon account of engine number dates are out by months, like the first 650 engine number in Bacons book was not just out by months but out by year and the wrong engine number all together

it was Not Number 18-100200, but engine /frame number 18-93601,november 1960 witch nether of them have in there books, Yours Anna J

Thanks for the replies.I wondered about the process,maybe Ishould have called RGM first.Anyway thanks to the forum I now have a couple of leads on a cam.My next step is to search to find what is a suitable one for a 18ss/129xxx motor.Is there an ss cam and a standard cam?.The only marking on the worn cam is T2219 but I would not be surprised if this one had been chucked in just to get the engine together.Thank you,Jonathan

hello camshaft Number T2219 its the original High lift Camshaft as fitted too the Manxman 650 part number 22729 also stamp marked X1 or X2 for hardness, and worn camshaft can be built up by RGM motors Yours Anna J

Jonathan, I have a spare genuine SS cam. PM me it you are interested.

Can't speak on Wilson as I have never owned one of his books but I have several of Bacons and they read as if the research was directly from the factory press release, parts books etc. They miss completely mid year changes and quote part numbers as being gospel when especially Triump changed parts but not always the numbers. They are very UK market focused which is a pain if you have a US only model. So read but with caution and use other sources. And yes Bert Hopwood's work is biased, for someone with his illustrous job titles he never seemed to achieve anything but being overruled.

Can't speak on Wilson as I have never owned one of his books but I have several of Bacons and they read as if the research was directly from the factory press release, parts books etc. They miss completely mid year changes and quote part numbers as being gospel when especially Triump changed parts but not always the numbers. They are very UK market focused which is a pain if you have a US only model. So read but with caution and use other sources. And yes Bert Hopwood's work is biased, for someone with his illustrous job titles he never seemed to achieve anything but being overruled.

Anna.

Just go into a dark room and take your medication. It's a bike forum, stop trying to get one up on one another.

The problem is once it's down in print it must be true (it was in the Sun today etc).

These guys are not around anymore to say one way or the other, and there are bigger issues in the world

Tony H

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

I have not heard of a camshaft being Stellited. Followers yes. Camshafts can be hot metal sprayed, Nitrided and so on but if you Stellite coat it you are going to end up with two identical metals in loaded contact which is not a good move. Try Newman Camshafts for a fix.

Well phil Newman camshafts is what RGM use as there sevice people,

And its NOT 650SS camshaft , The Norton Manxman was the first 650 !

NOT the 650SS, the camshaft profile cam from the Manx, Designed By Leo Kosmicki hence the name Manxman , an all new motor design from the manx engine witha all new cylinder head profie and valve train for a higher perfomance motorcycle yours anna J

... And I thought he was Polish ð

Anna.

Just go into a dark room and take your medication. It's a bike forum, stop trying to get one up on one another.

The problem is once it's down in print it must be true (it was in the Sun today etc).

These guys are not around anymore to say one way or the other, and there are bigger issues in the world

Tony H

Well that why there are bigger issues in the world , because No one has listened too us Engineers , It could of been so much better with No issues at all, as engineers solve problems yours Anna J

Previously anna jeannette Dixon wrote:

Previously Phil Hannam wrote:

I have not heard of a camshaft being Stellited. Followers yes. Camshafts can be hot metal sprayed, Nitrided and so on but if you Stellite coat it you are going to end up with two identical metals in loaded contact which is not a good move. Try Newman Camshafts for a fix.

Well phil Newman camshafts is what RGM use as there sevice people,

And its NOT 650SS camshaft , The Norton Manxman was the first 650 !

NOT the 650SS, the camshaft profile cam from the Manx, Designed By Leo Kosmicki hence the name Manxman , an all new motor design from the manx engine witha all new cylinder head profie and valve train for a higher perfomance motorcycle yours anna J

... And I thought he was Polish ð

yes he was polish engineer and a fighter pilot in Spifires , ww2

A double ACE! I read that those Polish fighter pilots were quite agressive.

A double ACE! I read that those Polish fighter pilots were quite agressive.

yes but out of the cockpit he was a quiet man and would not stand up from him self , at first days at Norton He was bullied By Firey Joe Craig untill the day Charley Edwards got too know him better , I have the Charley Edwards story, of a Norton race engineer ,its very interesting reading , yours Anna J

But, as usual, has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post!

lets go completely off post. i am going to stand in my fish tank and sing. trouble is the water is over two foot deep will i need under water training. Baz

But, as usual, has nothing whatsoever to do with the original post!

well it has because Loe kosmiki did the design work on Norton camshafts

and as for stellite coatings they metal sprayed on at high temperture, then machined to profile and metal poished , for hardeness and RGM.Motors carries all this work out, so contact Rodger on 01946 841517

yours anna j

Apparently the teeth on shelfish are the hardest natural material known, good for camshafts?. And i'm still on the thread!.

Apparently the teeth on shelfish are the hardest natural material known, good for camshafts?. And i'm still on the thread!.

Yes and some Norton owners heads by the looks of things yours Anna J

I now have a new cam thanks to a forum member so there is no need to refurbish the old one.Thanks, Jonathan.

that all depends were you got the new cam from ,there are knowen to be some-thing called plastic cams out there there meaning the cam only last some 3000 miles so I would think again before dumping te old one !

! yours Anna J