750 or 850 Commando? Advice please

I'd start with which model I liked the look of best. For me, that'd be a Roadster 'S' Type, but others seem to prefer the Interstate or Fastback (can't understand why, myself).

After that, you need to consider what you can afford, what your hands-on capabilities are, etc. In other words, it's no good going after a fully worked-over machine if you've only got £5k to spend.

As for the 750/850 choice - that's very much a personal thing. The 750s are often considered nicer to ride due to the smaller pistons flying up and down. Others prefer the lug of the 850 motor.

At the end of the day, I'd suggest that you look at a few and decide which turns you on the most. If none do, then a Commando isn't for you!

A bog standard 1972 750 Roadster with drum brake (prefered) or disc.

Reason...the most prettiest....most basic....most reliable (not overstressed in any way)...enough power but still feels revvy with a good surge of power as the revs climb. BUT:

What to watch out for....All Commandos had no quality control in manufacture what so ever at that time probably never improved at all with later ones either. Ideally every moving part bearing wise needs to be replaced noting that gearbox cogs were never hardened it seemed as were other parts like camshafts, fork chrome, etc.... Paintwork was simply "aerosoled" onto bare steelbut most of them would be half put right by now as not many un-restored Commandos exist now. BTW check the front frame alignment as the frames are twisted or rotated around the headstock so very easily leaving the front wheel out of line with the rear wheel...etc etc...Having now put you off I would say don't be....once sorted with a quality rebuild you will have a fantastic machine....Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Previously les_howard wrote:

Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Only some Commandos had silver barrels as stock. Many - mine included, had the better-looking black ones.

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Only some Commandos had silver barrels as stock. Many - mine included, had the better-looking black ones.

Not on 1971-1972 Roadsters!

You might have seen a 1972 750 Roadster with a black barrel, then again you might have seen one with a purple one, However when they left the factory the barrel was silver.

Les

Previously nicholas_reeves wrote:

Been trying to decide what to buy, 750 or 850.Have done some research but it all seems a bit of a mine field to choose.As well as this could I ask what model and year should I go for.Realiability is more important than speed.Thanks.Nick.

Itsthe type ofowner that determines themodel.... Are you a rider a racer or a show man?an improver, astandardiser or an investor?

Howsyourknees/ back/ upperbody strength?Kickstarting or Electricstart. manoeuvering insmall placescanbe taxing ifyou are onshort bars orhighC of G models.

Doyou tour, daytrip,trailerit about,orjusttinker. Choosethe model that fits you. They are all builtof a quality of the day and adesign that was well proven inprevious modelsor in its ownright on thetrack.

Each model has its ownstrengths and weaknesses but if you like Norton as abrandyouwill love these.

One commonquirk to all Commandosis the"rubber bed" framearrangement, be aware of it,it is not a featherbed and requires setting up, alterations giving vastly different characteristics.

Irun an 850 Mk 2.5 - it starts, runs, and stopsvery very well; that's all I ask of it.

Jon

If reliability is top priority then 850, the MK3 has the electric start but is heavier and slower with the original silencers so go MK1 or 2 including the A variants.

Previously les_howard wrote:

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Only some Commandos had silver barrels as stock. Many - mine included, had the better-looking black ones.

Not on 1971-1972 Roadsters!

You might have seen a 1972 750 Roadster with a black barrel, then again you might have seen one with a purple one, However when they left the factory the barrel was silver.

Les

Ah - I hadn't realised you were specifically referring to the 1972 model year - mine (back in the day) was a '73 MkV, and one of the ones I'm doing now is a 1968 'Fastback' (although they weren't called that at that stage). Both had black barrels from new.

Make sure it fits you. My Mk3 850 Interstate was lovely to ride but I could only just reach the ground on tippy toes at rest. I had a couple of topples when I stopped in traffic and found my foot was over a pothole. In the end I reverted to my Dominator which has a more sensible seat height. And is lighter. And is much simpler to maintain. And handles better.Other than that, nothing in it.

Ignore everything previously mentioned. Buy what you like the most wheather it be a roadster or Interstate 750 or 850 or anything in between.

By now whatever was the good or bad points on a particular model all should have been eliminated. Even the so call grenade of a Combat. If it has lasted this long then it is either been rebuilt to a certain standard ( this is the bit you have to verify) or it is a good one to last this long.

In short, 750 revvy, 850 grunty. However, saying that, they are both awesome in my book. So, why not just buy one of each!

I'm with Boo on this. Buy what you can comfortably afford and from a genuine seller not someone out for a fast buck on eBay. Take someone along to view a bike and ride it and don't be afraid to walk away from something that looks too good to be true. By the end the 850's were pretty strong engines with all the good mods. The starter motor may not function but can be made to.

dont be too put off by the combats reputation they are not as bad as people say and as boo says they will have been rebuilt by now

Previously nicholas_reeves wrote:

Thank you all very much for your invaluable advice.I must admit I do like the look of the 750 Roadster in black.I have read somewhere while trying to do some research that the 1972 750 had webbs introduced around the main bearings for extra support.I was surprised to see that apparently this caused end float on the crank which had to be shimmed.While before these webbs were introduced no crank end float occured.It seems strange that they did one thing to improve a problem but made another.Thats why I have asked for advice so I can try and make an imformed choice between the 750 or 850.It does seem that the 850 mk11a is a popular choice.But is it a worry that the engine was enlarged to 850 from a fairly overstressed engine while it was a 750?Please excuse my questions but these are not cheap to buy anymore so I want to be sure as I can that I am buying the right model.I do know however that a Combat engine seems to be a no no. Thanks again.Nick.

I've never heard of the different crankshaft but you could be right. originally the crankshaft was located on the timing side by a ball race gripped firmly by the oil worm nut. When the "superblend" bearings were adopted the crankshaft is free to move sideways at will since the bearings are single lipped rollers and open at the inside position to allow assembly of the cases. It is easy to shim to get the right end float so don't worry at all over this. Personally I think and have suggested before that instead of the superblend on the timing side a "High capacity" (extra balls) ball race could be fitted...this will revert the crankshaft back to its original design whereby the crank is held by the oil pump worm and also will take the side thrust from the force generated by the oil pump being driven.....( NB: for people who disagree I am not willing to be pulled into a debate on this Forum about it) Anyway...surely my model preference cannot be bettered in terms of shear prettiness?...Indeed the most beautiful Heavyweight motorcycle ever:

It was the over-stressing of the 750 by the Combat changes that made the factory upgrade the engine using extra cubes, the extra features such as the barrel through bolts and the 8.5 compression ratio make the engine less stressed but making more torque with the same HP at lower rpm.

The Combats shortfalls are well documented as are the fixes, once you apply the fixes its just like any other Commando with the exception of the lack of sump filtering prior to the pump return as per all 72's.

Agreed, Les.. that is a very good looking machine. Interesting how the side panels changed over the years, these following the seat base line, whereas later ones followed the petrol tank base, but both looking 'right'.

Mind you, I think I've seen some mismatches which become more noticeable when lining is used, too, but to me the Commando was WAY in front of contemporary Triumphs and BSAs where little thought seemed to have been used regarding the lines and looks of the thing.

Great colour though, I had a Gilbern nicknamed 'Flying Banana', yellow with a hint of green. My Xmas present was a new tank and panels for my Mk3, yet to be painted. Almost tempted to 'go yellow', but with black script and no lining? Or with silver and lined? Or stay with plan A and go red/silver?

Decisions.... decisions......

Nicholas

Looks are obviously important. The bike needs to make you smile!

I'd also take the advice about viewing any potential purchase with a knowledgable Commando owner. Maybe try your local NOC branch. A good rivet counter will spot any major non-standard items. I would not assume anything about work being done such as replacement main bearings or gearbox layshaft bearing. Failure of either of these can seriously damage your wealth and possibly health! Ask for receipts or other evidence of any work done. A record of recent routine maintenance (with receipts for parts and consumables) would also give confidence in the bike's mechanical condition.

If not buying a 'minter' with supporting paperwork then you need a healthy budget to refurbish or upgrade. Depending on your mechanical and electrical ability this can easily run into several £1000s.

If you haven't already obtained it, I'd suggest buying Pete Henshaw's Essential Buyer's Guide (Veloce Publishing). It is excellent value.

I'm attaching a file as a 'starter for ten' that I downloaded some time ago via the Access Norton forum. It may help you with the scope of tackling a refurb or improvements.

All the best with your purchase.

Andy

Previously charles_claxton wrote:

Agreed, Les.. that is a very good looking machine. Interesting how the side panels changed over the years, these following the seat base line, whereas later ones followed the petrol tank base, but both looking 'right'.

Mind you, I think I've seen some mismatches which become more noticeable when lining is used, too, but to me the Commando was WAY in front of contemporary Triumphs and BSAs where little thought seemed to have been used regarding the lines and looks of the thing.

Great colour though, I had a Gilbern nicknamed 'Flying Banana', yellow with a hint of green. My Xmas present was a new tank and panels for my Mk3, yet to be painted. Almost tempted to 'go yellow', but with black script and no lining? Or with silver and lined? Or stay with plan A and go red/silver?

Decisions.... decisions......

Hi Charles,

Yellow is a super colour on the early Commandos without lining. Interesting that you also owned a Gilbern as I did many years ago. A great car. (Made in Wales). I had a Mk11 but it was metallic blue. I do have yellow 70 roadster now.

Regards, Paul.

Hi Paul

Was that a Mk11 Invader or Commando? I had a yellow Invader estate, with a very trick engine, followed by a Roman Purple Mk3.

Verdict still out on the Commando colour, almost tempted to go half and half.... different, no?

But, just to justify interrupting Nicholas' thread, I went for Mk3 Commando with indicators and disc brakes front and rear (which can be improved beyond recognition... as can drums if set up properly) so as not to be a liability to others and myself in modern traffic. You'll read in some places that:Commandos can be: 'a handful in town'... not mine

(It also came with 'peashooters', since changed for a balanced 'black cap' system, with no perceptible loss in performance)

For the OP.

I'm on the lookout for a Roadster and spoke to my local branch chairman about getting someone form the branch to come along with me when I go to look at one.

He rightly pointed out, given the likelihood of having to travel to see one, that it would make sense, having spotted one, to then make contact with the branch closest to wherever the bike.

Someone might be happier to give up a couple of hours to take a look at one with you rather than a whole day - which is what it might be if travelling! Of course. there's the chance they might know the bikeand/or the vendor too.

Previously charles_claxton wrote:

Hi Paul

Was that a Mk11 Invader or Commando? I had a yellow Invader estate, with a very trick engine, followed by a Roman Purple Mk3.

Verdict still out on the Commando colour, almost tempted to go half and half.... different, no?

But, just to justify interrupting Nicholas' thread, I went for Mk3 Commando with indicators and disc brakes front and rear (which can be improved beyond recognition... as can drums if set up properly) so as not to be a liability to others and myself in modern traffic. You'll read in some places that:Commandos can be: 'a handful in town'... not mine

(It also came with 'peashooters', since changed for a balanced 'black cap' system, with no perceptible loss in performance)

Hi Charles, sorry and just to clarify, it was a Mk11 Gilbern Invader and 1970 Commando.

Regards, Paul.

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Only some Commandos had silver barrels as stock. Many - mine included, had the better-looking black ones.

Not on 1971-1972 Roadsters!

You might have seen a 1972 750 Roadster with a black barrel, then again you might have seen one with a purple one, However when they left the factory the barrel was silver.

Les

Ah - I hadn't realised you were specifically referring to the 1972 model year - mine (back in the day) was a '73 MkV, and one of the ones I'm doing now is a 1968 'Fastback' (although they weren't called that at that stage). Both had black barrels from new.

I've got a 72 Roadster which I've had for 35 years, it hadn't been restored when I bought it, and it has black barrels. I've just looked at the 71, 72 and 73 sales catalogues and it shows 71 and 73 in silver and 72 in black.

Previously dave_graham1 wrote:

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Previously patrick_hook wrote:

Previously les_howard wrote:

Oh yes....the barrels should be silver...not black.....this really sets the bike off and is what they had originally....Les

Only some Commandos had silver barrels as stock. Many - mine included, had the better-looking black ones.

Not on 1971-1972 Roadsters!

You might have seen a 1972 750 Roadster with a black barrel, then again you might have seen one with a purple one, However when they left the factory the barrel was silver.

Les

Ah - I hadn't realised you were specifically referring to the 1972 model year - mine (back in the day) was a '73 MkV, and one of the ones I'm doing now is a 1968 'Fastback' (although they weren't called that at that stage). Both had black barrels from new.

I've got a 72 Roadster which I've had for 35 years, it hadn't been restored when I bought it, and it has black barrels. I've just looked at the 71, 72 and 73 sales catalogues and it shows 71 and 73 in silver and 72 in black.

Well I was around in "72 and bought a brand new one...every one of the Roadsters in every dealer I saw at that time had silver barrels...your bike was 9 years old when you bought it!...nuff said I think.

Ok, strange how the 72 Norton sales catalogue shows them with black barrels, maybe it was 71 models that hadn't been sold in the shop as the "S" and "SS" were made before 72 and weren't listed by then.

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/NGRidability.htm

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/NGFulfilment.htm

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/NGGoFar.htm

http://www.andover-norton.co.uk/NGFrontrunners.htm

Here's the catalogues for 71, 72 and 73, sorry they're in French

http://www.motos-anglaises.com/catalogues/Norton/catalogue_norton_1971_francais.pdf

http://www.motos-anglaises.com/catalogues/Norton/catalogue_norton_1972_francais.pdf

http://www.motos-anglaises.com/catalogues/Norton/catalogue_norton_1973_anglais.pdf

I recall reading a road test of a combat-engined Commando in the early 70's. It was mentioned that an external distinguishing factor from 'normal' 750's was the black painted cylinders.

The ads shown above seem to support this (although not conclusively) because the only ads mentioning the 'double s cam' in the script show bikes with black cylinders.

I've only owned 850's, so I'm sorry that I can't make a comparison with 750's. To me, the 'grunt' of the 850 is one of its best features.

If you buy one with a fibreglass tank, budget to replace it

Previously nicholas_reeves wrote:

Been trying to decide what to buy, 750 or 850.Have done some research but it all seems a bit of a mine field to choose.As well as this could I ask what model and year should I go for.Realiability is more important than speed.Thanks.Nick.

Dear Nick,

As no-one else is mentioning " The Elephant in the Room" I thought I had better . I have currently both 750 and 850 models ( 69,72 and 76) all now a pleasure to ride, However there are particular issues with handling / headstock angle for 1972 models which make them very interesting at speed when compared to earlier ones or later ones. Have a look on Norvil website there is a technical section where ' Weave' and causes are mentioned. Official solution to this seems to be rebuild in later frame or ride slower.

My advice is test ride any prospective purchase before parting with your cash.

regards Martin

This is the first I've heard of a handling problem with 72 models, I've never had a problem with mine and I never ride it slow. If there is too much play in the isolastic mounts you can get a strange drifting sensation, but once you realise what it is, it's not a problem and the bike still handles well. With it shimmed up properly it handle as well as my Dommie. Maybe there was a bad batch of frames at sometime?

I had a 1972 combat fastback back in the day and used to ride it like a loon and the handling was great (except when the isolastics needed shimming).

The handling of my current 72 750 is also good.

I thought the only headstock angle change was made with the 850 and all 750's had the same frame.

Also, I can confirm that all combats had a black barrel and my Interpol made just before the combats also has a black barrel.

For my money, the lighter weight of the 750 makes it more fun.

But when all is said and done you will enjoy any commando!

Cheers

Steve