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1936 ES2 hub and brakes

Submitted by aled_corps on Tue, 18/11/2014
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Singles

Hi All,

On my 1936 norton I have an issue with the hub/break assembly on the front and back. They are similar issues but caused by slightly different things.

These are a little hard to explain, but here goes (hopefully I can follow up with some images soon)

Back:The brake plate does not quite fit properly into the groves on the break shoe housing,it's a few millemeters from fitting, but seems to pivot on in the middle where it meets the rear axle stub. The stub, which attaches to the spindle seems to be in the correct position, so I can't work out why there's not enough space for the plate to fit. The only idea I've had so far is that the stub is not quite the correct size because I came across the following image showing 3 different sizes.

http://www.accessnorton.com/deeper-rear-stub-axle-missfit-issue-t15060.html

I have 2 or 3 of these stubs, and all seem the same size though, and I'm sure one of these would have been the origional.

Front:On the front, the plate won't quite fit to the break shoe casing because it pivots on the small cog that comes in from the speedometer assembly. The cog just seems to stick out a few millemeters too far, but it does seem to be in the correct place as there's a small split pin that holds it in place which lines up with the hole perfectly.

As I said, I will follow up with some images, as these are difficult issues to explain, but I thought there might be someone out there who has had a similar issue with these pre war hub/break assembly's and could help me.

All the best

Aled

Submitted by nicholas_clark on Thu, 11/12/2014

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Hello Aled

From the web link you gave you know there are stub axles of different dimensions for the back wheel. As you have more than one stub axle, andif you are sure everything else is assembled correctly. Then I think the best solution would be to get one of the stub axles machined to give the correct brake backplate offset. It will take some accurate measureing but it would be a far better solution than adding washers to the brake drum studs.

With the front wheel problem the brake plate spacing nut should not be fixed to the wheel spindle. It should be threaded and moveable. There again if you are sure everything else is assembled correctly with the bearings seated properly in their locations I think the best solution would be to machine the spacing nut to give the correct brake plate offset.

With the bike being nearly 80 years old you don't know if those parts are original or not and I thinkit is far better and safer tofind a good engineering solution. It is what I try and do with my old Nortons.

Best of luck, Nick

Submitted by ian_macdougall on Thu, 11/12/2014

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Hi Aled

Are your new bearings the sealed or shielded type? If so the double row bearing will be slightly wider than the original non-shielded type and could explain why the brake plate is being held out from the drum. You could overcome this by reducing the length of the spacer between the 2 bearings.

Ian McD

Submitted by aled_corps on Thu, 11/12/2014

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I thought I'd cracked the issue with a stub I'd found in a jumble on Saturday, but even though it was shorter than the original, the same issue occured.

The new barings are sealed, but I did compare then to the old ones that came out, and they did seem exactly the same to me, but maybe I should have measured them more accurately to be sure. I do like the option of reducing the length of the spacer, I hadn't thought of that thanks.

Aled

Submitted by barry_carson on Thu, 11/12/2014

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Hi i had the same problem with my rear brake drum on my es2 it was the bearing on the brake drum side was not on its seat it may feel like it is. but as i found out it wasn't. this would cause the half shaft to lock up against the brake drum . if the bearing isnt in correctly. you could do with pulling the bearings together rather than drifting them in else you hit one it will knock other bearing off its seat. Baz

Submitted by ian_macdougall on Thu, 11/12/2014

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Hi Aled

There is some wheel bearing info on this web site, although Commando related it should still be relevant to the singles. http://www.nortonownersclub.org/support/technical-support-common/wheel-bearings

When I was looking for sealed bearings a while ago the only ones I could find were 17.5mm wide - the original bearings are 16mm. A Google search this evening turned up ZZ and 2RS variants that claim to be 16mm wide, so it may be possible to fit sealed bearings without modifying the spacer.

Ian McD

Submitted by ian_macdougall on Fri, 12/12/2014

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Hi Aled

I think I need to correct my earlier posts concerning the bearing spacer. Looking again at my spare '37 hub I see that both bearings sit up against shoulders machined in the hub, so reducing the spacer is not going to help if the double row bearing is wider than standard. There may be enough material in the hub to machine the bearing recess a little deeper to accept a wider bearing.

Reducing the bearing spacer does work in the later full width front hub only. Apologies for the earlier misleading suggestion, although the bearing width may still be a factor in your problem.

Ian McD

Submitted by colin_mosley on Sun, 14/12/2014

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Hi Alex

I have a 38 ES2 with the same hubs. One bearing (next to the screwed ring) should be fitted first and is single row. This should be fitted with the longer spacer offset. The other bearing is double row. I found this in the WD manual on the WD Norton website.

Did everything line up before you changed the bearings?

Colin

 


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