1948 ES2 no oil flow !

Previously wrote:

Les

Many thanks for your informative advice. I was about to reply correcting my eroneous description of the Mag chain cover but you worked that out yourself. I'm busy tomorrow but will follow your advice re crankcase drain as soon as I can. This is one occasion where I wish the bike was wet sumping. At least I'd know the bottom end was oiled.

Fortunately there was no damage to the bike just my dignity. I,ll let you know how I get on.

Thanks again

Jim

My sincere apologies to your mechanic,I have just remembered that the timing chain is external to the cam timing cover so greasing it heavily is probably the correct method of lubrication.I thinkyour description of "timing cover" caused me to think wrongly.So where I have assumed you weresaying "timing cover" you are really saying the magneto chain cover, or whatever, but not the timing cover as I would describe it. Your description may be the correct one though and my one wrong of course......You say tomato and I say tomato.etc etc.

My checks apply to the engine oilpump /camshaft timing cover. It therefore looks as if this has not been removed so it doesn't look like anything pump wise is amiss, but you can still do the crankcase drain bolt check quite easily.

Interseting to find out what is wrong.

ATB

Les

Previously wrote:

My sincere apologies to your mechanic,I have just remembered that the timing chain is external to the cam timing cover so greasing it heavily is probably the correct method of lubrication.I thinkyour description of "timing cover" caused me to think wrongly.So where I have assumed you weresaying "timing cover" you are really saying the magneto chain cover, or whatever, but not the timing cover as I would describe it. Your description may be the correct one though and my one wrong of course......You say tomato and I say tomato.etc etc.

My checks apply to the engine oilpump /camshaft timing cover. It therefore looks as if this has not been removed so it doesn't look like anything pump wise is amiss, but you can still do the crankcase drain bolt check quite easily.

Interseting to find out what is wrong.

ATB

Les

Hi Les

Removed sump plug. A good half pint of oil came out. Will replace and restart engine next. If a similar amount of oil appears do you think it would be safe to leave engine running for longer to see if return flow begins?

Jim

Previously wrote:

Hi Les

I'm afraid this situation has got a whole lot worse. Having followed your advice and still getting no oil return I removed the timing side cover. The problem is immediately apparent. The male thread on the half time pinion shaft has stripped (that carries the pump driving worm). This seems to be a very strange failure, the pump turns freely so I can't immagine why the thread stripped. Looking at the spare parts list this seems to be part of the flywheel assembly so a complete engine strip will be required. Unless anyone has other ideas I shall get on with it in a week or so after a now much needed holiday. Many thanks for your help.

Jim

Hi James. A half pint is amore than should beshorty after a running state but quite a bit of time has passed by with a stopped engine, and much of this could be natural drainage from all the nooks and crannies plus a little bit of oil pump back drainage.

The head gear will stand a little lapse of lubricaction if there is a problem. So put back the drain plug (finger tight will do) Start the engine and leave running for a about a minute or two but time it.You might not get oil coming back to the oil tank as there is not much oil to pick up yet.

Stop the engine, and remove drain plug again, just to see if more oil has been added and if so, you can feel confident the oil pump is feeding the big end and lubricating the bottom half. Make a note of the amount of oil you collect

Refit drain plug again and restart. this time leave engine running for exactly twice the length of times with similar revs as before.

This time you well get the oil return to the tank, BUT IF NOT, you will have to remove the drain plug again and measure the new amount of oil. If there is no scavenging at all, you will get very nearly twice or double the quantity of oil as you got before.

IF this is the case you can start to assume something is not right with the scavenge side of you system. but it would be very odd indeed if there was.

It could be the scavenge side of the pump is so worn it will require priming or wetting of the cogs to get it to lift the oil up. Remember that the feed cogs have the luxury of being fed with head of oil and never require priming.

How to prime? You'll have to make sure theRETURN oil pipe is filled with oil, then remove the spark plug select first gear and push the bike backwards. This should suck oil backwards into the scavenge side. There is a very good chance then thatthe pump will work ok. If this works, get your oil pump rebuilt ASAP. I know thispriming larkis going to be time consumingbut it might be the only way.

Let us know how you get on.

Les

Previously wrote: Hi again Les

Maybe all is not lost. Looking more closely at the male thread it is only the outer part that is stripped. The inner half looks OK and might have enough meat left to refit the worm. The worm thread looks OK. So I shall try to clean the jags off the stripped part of the thread and refit the worm. Looking for a thread file or left hand tap and fingers crossed it works. Before I sent the bike to the mechanic it did backfire a few times so that could be the cause.

Best regards

Jim

Hi James. That is nearly unbelieveable! I 've never heard of that thread ever stripping before. maybe it was massively overtightened at sometime, or more likely, was cross threaded for the entire length of it. That it should happen just after you had knocked your bike over is a massive coincidence. I was thinking that when you attempted the first start after dropping it perhaps it backfired?This might well have loosened it and once loose, it then fully stripped when successfully starting it as it tried to drive the pump again.

I can only imagine you will have to get the thread hot metal sprayed and the thread recut, which is notthat difficultor expensive. It should be nearly as good as new then.

Hope you enjoy your holiday, and don't fret too much over the bike. Although it's a lot of bother, you should be able to get it back together and as good as new when it's all finished.

Regards.

Les

Previously wrote:

Hi James. That is good news. I would refit using Loctite thread lock or better still a stronger one such as loctite Retainer or bearing fitor frommemory; I think it could be called648 or even 660nowadays. You will still be able to dismantle itin the future.

http://www.loctite.co.uk/uke/content_data/140352_aam.pdf

See page 12-13

Theextra bolstering with Loctite will mainly compensate for the slighly shorter thread. good Luck

Les

Hi again Les and apologies for the delayed response.

I cleaned the thread with a l/h die. there was about 5mm good thread left and reassembled using loctite. All seems well! The bike starts and runs well and oil is pumping.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

Jim

Previously wrote:

Hi James. That is good news. I would refit using Loctite thread lock or better still a stronger one such as loctite Retainer or bearing fitor frommemory; I think it could be called648 or even 660nowadays. You will still be able to dismantle itin the future.

http://www.loctite.co.uk/uke/content_data/140352_aam.pdf

See page 12-13

Theextra bolstering with Loctite will mainly compensate for the slighly shorter thread. good Luck

Les

Hi again Les and apologies for the delayed response.

I cleaned the thread with a l/h die. there was about 5mm good thread left and reassembled using loctite. All seems well! The bike starts and runs well and oil is pumping.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

Jim

Les

Hi again Les and apologies for the delayed response.

I cleaned the thread with a l/h die. there was about 5mm good thread left and reassembled using loctite. All seems well! The bike starts and runs well and oil is pumping.

Many thanks for your help and advice.

Jim