Hi all,
I have an oil leak on my 1950 ES2. I did mention this in another thread but thought I would start a separate one for this subject. Looking at the magneto chain with the cover off and the engine running it is coming from behind the lower gear? I did notice this before as oil was coming from the breather pipe near the bottom of the mag chain case, but wanted to run the motor with the cover off to see exactly where its coming from. I am guessing there is some kind of seal behind here? or someone mentioned a bush? How do i get that gear off??
Thanks,
Steve.
Here it is, the leak as you…
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There is no seal, just a…
There is no seal, just a close fitting bush. To get to it, the chain and sprocket has to come off, use of a three legged puller here to do that, making sure you don't lose the tiny woodruff key when the sprocket comes off. The timing cover can then be removed, make sure you don't lose the sprung loaded brass quill that feeds oil to the crank.
If you don't want to go that far and the amount of oil leaking is negligible but annoying, just fit the mag chain case with a gasket and sealant so the oil goes down the chaincase breather pipe to a suitable catch bottle.
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...and you won't be able to…
...and you won't be able to remove the bottom sprocket with the magneto chain in place - so you'll need to be prepared to re-set timing. It will never be as oil tight as a new modern design because they didn't have synthetic rubber garter type oil seals when it was designed. And the magneto chain likes a bit of oil...
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scrolled bush
The bronze bush behind the lower sprocket has a machined scroll, which doesn't extend to the outside of the bush. The scroll effectively screws the oil back into the engine, but as things wear more oil escapes to the mag chain casing and causes some leakage when the level builds up to the "overflow" pipe.
I asked an expert machinist (my brother) if he could replicate the scroll in a new bush. Unfortunately it is technically complicated to re-create the coarse scroll unless you're in the bearing manufacturing industry, especially when it has to stop short at the outer end.
I resorted to making a small catch bottle to stop the bike marking its territory!
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Phil, I thought the scroll…
Phil, I thought the scroll assisted oil feed into the blind end of the bush to keep the shaft lubricated. The rest I agree with....
I keep mine greased which blocks the drain hole. Very little oil seeps through, and I run a felt behind the mag in case it over lubes. May be lucky but I get little issue from the pipe.
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Thanks for the replies chaps…
Thanks for the replies chaps. It's given me something to think about..
I had an idea, and I'd like some honest opinions here...
It would seem this is a common issue, more so than I initially thought, so I am thinking maybe oil getting into the chain case is not a real issue as there is a chain there and like you have said it would definitely benefit from a little lubrication, so my thoughts are not so much stopping the leak, but introducing a way of allowing the oil to get back into the case?
Being an engineer/mechanic since I left school has made me think about this issue, and how the simplest ideas are usually the best. I will have to do some serious looking inside the casing to ensure nothing is wrong first, but am thinking maybe a simple drilling at the lowest part of this case will allow the oil to get back to where it should be, and meanwhile provide good lubrication to the bush and the mag chain? Any thoughts are welcome of course!
Best regards, Steve.
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It should be....
... easy enough to machine a scroll inside a bush by using an internal screw cutting tool and setting the feed to be very coarse - say 4 TPI - by using appropriate change wheels. Then either rotate the chuck by hand or under power if you have quick reactions!
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Oil back to crankcase
If you drill a hole into the crankcase to drain the oil it will also allow crankcase pressure to escape into the mag chain case, which will make the situation worse.
Some years ago I saw an article where the chain was converted to a belt drive. This allowed an oil seal to be fitted to the camshaft spindle so that no oil escaped into the mag chain case.
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I did think that, and…
I did think that, and correct me if i am wrong here but the hole isn't going to be directly into the crank case but the timing gear housing? unless the crank case is hollow through to that are it wouldn't necessarily be open to direct pressure? plus of course the crank case breather on the other side is going to take care of that surely?
Thanks for the other replies!
Best regards,
Steve.
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I would encourage your…
I would encourage your engineering instincts to prevail and carry out your lower hole drilling in the cases.
What have you got to lose? If it works the jobs a good un, if not you can always plug it up and rethink what you want to do next if anything.
Tip. Use a drill size that will accommodate your taps and dies collection.
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Here it is, the leak as you can see is from behind this gear.