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Fibreglass tank sealing

Forums

hi , has any one used tapox in a fiberglass tank and does it work. still dont know what to do about the ethnol problem.

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Best go with a steel tank, the Roadster one is good from Emgo, the rest will have to be second hand unless you want to risk India, there is one seller in India that states his Interstate tank is formed using tooling and not hand beaten. It only need one pin point gap in the lining for the ethanol to attack the fibreglass no matter how good the lining is.

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Depends where you are: Generally use BP Ultimate, most of it in the UK and other countries is E0.

There is an election coming up so write to your MP and ask him /her to support E0 petrol for Veteran, vintage and classic vehicles.

Remember, there has been no statistically significant global warming since 1997 and a few hours ago the Chairman of the IPCC resigned! You won't hear that on the BBC, the on air version of the Guardian! Why we are involved with the bio fuels disaster, I don't know.

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bringing the thread back to the original question, you might try Casewells tank treatment. I think it is available from Hitchcocks the Royal Enfield dealer. There is a lot of info on this subject on the accessnorton.com website in the USA. Some of the steel replica tanks are not quite the correct shape but if it holds fuel that's half the battle.

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There is a thread on Caswell, and other tank sealers, on the accessnorton forum, but pretty-well all comments are disparaging, and give no confidence as to the suitability of that, or Tapox, sealers, with several instances of failure.

There are two issues, one being the resistant of the sealer to ethanol, another it's ability to adhere to the inside of the tank. There is a thought that a new fibreglass tank may provide better adhesion than one which has held petrol, the latter being unlikely to gve sufficient key. I do in fact have a new, as well as an original, tank for my Proddie racer; when I get round to finishing it.... I fear both tanks are useless at present, as ethanol free fuel is unavailable in this part of the country. With f/g tanks, you only get one attempt with a sealer. If it fails, the tank is scrap.

Another remedy is to cut out the bottom, and have an aluminium dummy tank made to fit inside the original; both difficult, and expensive.

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I did do a velocette vogue[fibre glass] tank a while ago which was great fun, its part of the full bodyshell so whisking it around was interesting, the old stale fuel was like a jelly in the bottomof the tankand took days to remove and steam clean with one of those machinesthat do tiles and showers etc, i used wyldes of leeds tank sealer for fibre glass tanksbut gave it two lots to get a good depth, it held modern ethonal fuel ok upto a year before i sold the bike, if i had a commando fibreglass tank i would give it ago.not sure about the tapox brand

ps some chaps aroundme are adding a touch of avgas to their fuel or just using it in the hope it has no severe ethonal troubles to their fuel systems in steel tanks.

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Previously mike_kenneally wrote:

hi , has any one used tapox in a fiberglass tank and does it work. still dont know what to do about the ethnol problem.

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Previously john_holmes wrote:

Best go with a steel tank, the Roadster one is good from Emgo, the rest will have to be second hand unless you want to risk India, there is one seller in India that states his Interstate tank is formed using tooling and not hand beaten. It only need one pin point gap in the lining for the ethanol to attack the fibreglass no matter how good the lining is.

Indian hand made tanks are not that bad I bought one for my 1954 dominator they fit ok the steel is good and thick and as good welding to say there made in some back street in Munby Indian someone has to make them

has skill in this country are getting lost, but as for fiberglas tanks there getting old and crack in places you cannot see , Its time for a retierment for this tank make a flower pot out of it, and buy a new tank made in metal ,

yours Anna J

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Arthur, Wyldes new flow liner is good stuff though I can't say how it adheres to F/G? Avgas is E0 with a bit of antifreeze. You are not allowed Ethanol for aviation use. OK for us plebs on the road though!

HopeDavid didn't find this too much off topic.

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Previously barry_carson wrote:

Hi, if its been sealed before it wont take unless you remove the old sealer and the chemical that does that may have an effect on the glass fibre in the tank. Baz

Baz. That is what I meant when I said you only get one go at sealing a fibreglass tank. The chemical sealant remover is essentially paint stripper, which will turn the inside of the tank to an irrecoverable goo.

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I have treated both Dommie and Commando Roadster tanks. I used Slosh on one and I think EthanolMate on the other. In both cases I found that the amount of goo was insufficient to cover all the inside of each tank. This turned out to be fatal on my Dommie tank as the Ethanol in the 'Leaded' fuel I had specially purchased quickly disolved some of the fibreglass resin and gummed up the carb and valves. It also got behind the metal petrol tap mountings and made both of them become loose. After some major surgery to sort out these hassles, including another coating of Slosh, I placed a Fuel Cat inside the tank and have not had any problems since. This addition stops the fuel going stale, boosts the Octane rating and seems to sort out any Ethanol issues. I paid just £15 for it which I would normally have spent on Fuel additives in just one year. Don't ask me how it works.

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In the near future, I plan on looking into cutting the bottom out of an old Fastback tank with the intention of installing a butyl rubber bag. held in place by a retaining plate. Matching it with the filler cap and out pipes may be a problem but not insurmountable. The aviation industry use butyl bladder tank liners but In my experience only with avtur which is basically paraffin. Anybody got any thoughts on this plan? (I was going to use a polypin beer bag but that would be a bit gash)

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thanks every one for all your help. i will let it last as long as it lasts and then go steel and see what happens. may be some one will sort out this ethnol thing .

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David, as said before: Ethanol is not legal in aviation. Read the report of Johnny Denver's last flight. Pre flight, he had to sample both fuel tanks to ensure there was no Ethanol present. Dangerous stuff and why we have AVGAS.

Mike, BP Ultimate in most parts of the country remains E0 (Not in Devon and Cornwall) The GreenLibLabCon are all committed to their carbon targets, that just leaves UKIP to end green subsidies. Your choice.

PS: I'm just telling it as it is and advice for those that don't want Ethanol. If you want this solvent in your bike you don't have an issue, you have nearly all of the market. A question of choice,,,

Replacement light bulb anyone?

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I've forgotten whart sealant I usedbut as I recall it was American. Its been in three years now and I tend to leave it sitting with petrol in it. However I found a 'wound' developing on top of the tank last summer and it started leaking from the top. I guess I hadn't made a good cover with the seal, and that the alcohol evaporates and condenses on the underside of the top. I fixed this with fibreglass as I had done with previous leaks from the bottom, all of which seem to be fine now. I also put external patches on where it had become thin, i.e. it bent inwards with pressure. Since I am having to paint the tank now, I sanded off all the high bits where it appeared to be melting (before the sealer was put in) and its now looking like a good solid tank. I don't know how long it will last, but apart from the hole in the top, the sealer seems to have arrested the deterioration and the reinforcing fibre glass layers which I applied underneath where it was thin have made it all feel solid again. If it doesn't last I will post again, and buy a steel tank, but this is turning out way cheaper and I am beginning to have confidence that the sealer really worked..

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The fix I described above didn't work in the end and I'm going to have to buy a steel tank from India. I even tried painting the tank with epoxy which keeps the gas in but bubbles in paintwork are all over the place now (rather then rupturing like some kind of pox as they did before). Lesson: once the fuel gets into the fibreglass matrix you can't evaporate it out, and you just have to throw out the tank..

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I've been putting off buying a new steel tank for my Interstate for months. I've been hoping that the longer I leave it, the better the quality of new ones will get! I'm at the point with my current fibre tank where the fuel pushes up big bubbles in the paint, especiallyif I park the bike in the sunshine. Some years ago I bought a spare fibre tank which will probably also go in the bin as I don't believe anything can be done to cure the problem 100%.

While all this has been going on I've discovered that, because the Indians can build new tanksat their current price it is not cost effective for anyone to make them over here.We would pay twice the price. It looks like we are stuck with the Indian tanks no materwhether we buy through athird party hereor straight from India.

I've been thinking ofcutting out the Norton logo on the side of the tank and turning it into a lamp shade. Could have the same result as a guy years ago,who was cutting a 200 Ltr drum with an oxy acetylene cutter. The drum lifted off, flew over an aircraft hanger and landed in a car park. Not sure what had been in it, but I bet a few people had to change their underwear.

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Check out the status of Esso Supreme Synergy + in your area, Kevin. For me it is the only pump fuel left that is not contaminated with solvent.

Take away that and I'm packing it in.

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This is the Indian Interstate tank made with tooling and not hand beaten.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTON-COMMANDO-INTERSTATE-FUEL-GAS-TANK-GAS-TANK-TOP-QUALITY-/162072456249?hash=item25bc456c39:g:DiEAAOSwr81UN5qW

Reviews are here but the links are the start are now dead so use the one above

http://www.accessnorton.com/steel-interstate-tank-t24275.html

I am tempted to buy one even though I now use Interpol tanks and have steel original Roadster and Interstate tanks stored away to put the bikes back to original.

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

Check out the status of Esso Supreme Synergy + in your area, Kevin. For me it is the only pump fuel left that is not contaminated with solvent.

Take away that and I'm packing it in.

Not all Esso Supreme Plus is E0. Esso Supreme Synenergy plus without Ethanol is pretty hard to find.

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That is correct Richard, hence I said to check out the status in his area. As far as I know this is the only E0 pump fuel available now, in certain areas.

Things are bad, unless one wants to go into the metal bashing business. It looks like the 'Giant Green Blob' has defeated us. They are in Morocco at the moment, basking in their glory!

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If you wonder how or where those Indian steel tanks are made, a forumer on the French forum motos-anglaises.com , dedicated to Brit bikes, is an airline pilot, a Norton and triumph rider, and last time he was in India, he found the workshop.

His photos can be seen on the forum: go to the above address, go to the forum, go to page 6, and find the message entitled "Ã?a vient de lÃ", posted by "Xpongebob". Edifying!

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Previously Neil Wyatt wrote:

That is correct Richard, hence I said to check out the status in his area. As far as I know this is the only E0 pump fuel available now, in certain areas.

Things are bad, unless one wants to go into the metal bashing business. It looks like the 'Giant Green Blob' has defeated us. They are in Morocco at the moment, basking in their glory!

It was added for new readers on the subject

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I'm afraid that where my fuel tank is concerned, checking out any particular type offuel now is a waste of time. The tank is onlyfit for the dump. And in any case, riding a distance to fill up a motorcycle tank seems to me to be something of a waste of money, time, effort and fuel. Sorry to say, but the fuel fixers have got us by the short and curlies. You may say that my attitude is typical and that that is why we can't get things changed, but that's the problem with reality. Its a pain in the proverbials.

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i was reading an article from the producers of the ethanol they seem to prefer stainless steel storage tanks to hold the crap i mean ethanol in long term . so its probably better to have stainless steel tanks produced in the future. Baz

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Previously Barry Carson wrote:

i was reading an article from the producers of the ethanol they seem to prefer stainless steel storage tanks to hold the crap i mean ethanol in long term . so its probably better to have stainless steel tanks produced in the future. Baz

That's probably the most sensible suggestion I've read on this web site so far Baz. Only problem would be the cost.

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Previously Barry Carson wrote:

Hi Kevin . like you say the cost would be the problem . Baz

Yeh, its so annoying Baz. I used to work for an outfit that used stainless steel like there was no tomorrow. They used to replace troughs and sinks etc. at the drop of a hat. They even had an area 'out back', where high grade SS items were dumped before being got rid of. It was always chock full of interesting items that could have been re-used to form things like fuel tanks. Even worse, my old man was a 'big wheel' in the SS industry'. If you could get a tank made from SS, it would be a shame to paint it. Polished up, it would look fantastic with a Norton logo on the side.

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Kevin, you can always carry a can if you are passing an E0 Esso station, what I do. Tonight I called in at the Ripon Esso station on the Harrogate road and it looks like theirs is E5, it is not synergy supreme+ The label was different and there was no+ I should have taken a sample jar and tested some on my old petseal.

That leaves just Harrogate and Tadcaster that I know of in North Yorkshire, still, better than nothing.

Problem with stainless tanks are that the welds would be suspect to vibration, a good idea though.

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Hi Kevin. shame about the stainless going to waste .yep stainless would polish up nice and look great. Baz

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Previously michael_sullivan wrote:

Question:

What are the tanks on the new Nortons made of?

Steel? Stainless steel? F'glass? Plastic? ???

Mike

Alloy. I've seen them being made and what a fabulous job they do of them. All individually hand welded and pressure tested.

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Previously mike_kenneally wrote:

hi , has any one used tapox in a fiberglass tank and does it work. still dont know what to do about the ethnol problem.

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Yes, a problem for fuel taps and pipes that are not ethanol proof too. This is of course dangerous stuff and a serious breach of health and safety. However, the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) are a part of the Establishment...(Same kind of establishment that got a kicking in the US of A...Drain the swamp etc!)

Also the UK Govt made legislation to say that 5% ethanol could be added to petrol without having to mark it up, post warning signs and not accept any responsibility. (Nothing to do with me Guv!)

If you haven't complained to your MP or Congressman then why on earth not?

The establishment are on their knees, there may never be a better time to put them on the spot!

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Previously mike_kenneally wrote:

hi , has any one used tapox in a fiberglass tank and does it work. still dont know what to do about the ethnol problem.

Hi Mike. I'll throw in my tuppenceworth. I bought a new f/glass tank for my Norvil in 2012 from a shop in Northampton. When it was purchased he said"it must be coated, I use someone in Norfolk" so off I sends it, in the glory of knowing(hoping) that I would not have any more problems.

Not so. 5 yrs later I am back in the same situation, fuel has started leaking from the front mounting bolt, not happy.

Spoke to bloke who lined it & asked how long does the lining last? To which he replied - no reason why it shouldn't last forever, to which I replied, mine lasted 5 yrs. He didn't comment after that!

Was I expecting too much? I don't think so, if he'd said it would need doing again in a few years, I might have thought different.

I am now looking at getting an alloy tank.

Good luck

Paul

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To be honest no petrol, EO or otherwise, is good for fibreglass, I have a glass tank on my Montesa which runs on EO race fuel, the inside still goes sticky if leave fuel in it for any time, my suggestion would be a metal tank, either ally or Indian ( mike pemberton was impressed with Pummy in India for mudguards ) or alternatively do what I do, drain the tank after each ride into a jerry can, I have a quick release pipe which I attach and drain into a can while I go and have a cuppa, I go back switch the tap off and remove the petrol tank top and leave it. But I guess this only works if your bike gets occasional use. It only take a couple of minutes and means I get to keep the original tank!

Dan

 

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