Today I went to a company in Kent, and took along a pair of Manxman silencers, mufflers. The owner inspected the silencers, and how they were made. After about five of so minutes deliberation, I was given a price of from £380 to £410 each. He only works in stainless steel, so if you want steel, then have them chromed, then these will not be for you. Stainless steel, can be very highly polished to look like chrome. The silencers, are on the heavy side, so the cost of postage will have to be added to the above cost. Over seas postage will of course be higher.
Anthony - I remember when I had stainless silencers on a car, they were thinner and therefore weighed less than standard. That was because they added no corrosion allowance, and the material was a bit stronger than mild steel. I wonder it that's the case here? That's a bonus if so, and also they should last more or less for ever (unless you use your bike in the sea..)
That's best part of £800 per pair though...!?
That was the price I was quoted, as there has been a lot of discussion about getting these silencers made for years. I went out and did some thing about it to see how much it would cost to have them fabricated. They are a very complicated design and only used on one model, that is what makes them so rare. The silencers I took are the genuine Norton Bracebridge Street items.
Going by the response to my going to get a quote for Manxman silencers, then I can see there will be no one that is interested in having a set made for their own restoration.
You might be better asking in the monthly magazine. I should think Manxman owners as a percentage of club members is fairly small, so the number of Manxman owners likely to read anything on this forum will be vanishingly small.
Well done Anthony for at least getting the information, but I tend to agree with Ian, re- publicity about this subject When Anna gets on the case everyone will be aware of your efforts anyway.
Regards John (missing bolt!) O
hello well Silencer in stainless steel your for ever cleaning them they go yellow in a weeks and dis-colour very easily and steel silencer are 1.5 mm thick steel sheet the only bug bear is making the con ends and there is one silencer inside another and a mushroom con end inside the end of the two silencers and the triangle mounting plates are off set for left and right and must fit correctly too mate up with the down pipes witch them self's are a work of art as there full bore 1.5/8th with swans necks ether side there not like and other Norton exhaust system And as Far as the Norton Owners Club Getting any Made You can forget this They have little Interest in the Norton Manxman 650. What so ever its been a up hill battle all the way to get any recognition with in this club and the Classic motorcycle world as a hole thats why they where long forgotten for well over 58 years by now would of had some Manxman 650 pipes and Silencer made , IF I had the funding But having to survive on 140 quid a week its hard thats why anything as not been done No funds Yours anna j
Hello yes I do have to Agree with you in this the ownership of the Norton Manxman 650 you can count on your two hands there are ten machines with in the UK and some 58 world wide to-date out of some 560 built from November 7th 1960 to the end of July 1961 only 3 batch were sent to the USA to Berliner Motors New jersey Many have come to light with in the last ten years and among these is the First one to be built In the hand of a good owner Now under full restoration May the Good Work Go On ,if any one is interested in this restoration you can follow it on you-tube Under Norton Manxman 650 restoration there are now 8 parts of video to watch do enjoy yours Anna J Dixon
The company I took the OEM Manxman silencers to had a good look at them, and commented that they would be hard to produce. I do not intend to try all the other manufacturers who may be out there, to see if they can be produced. I am already out the cost of petrol, so i will not be posting them off to see if some one else can make them. I have another new pair for my own restoration, and I shall get the exhaust pipes made to the bike, when it is up on its wheels, and ready for them. I had a set of stainless steel, exhaust pipes and silencers made for my 1970 Commando Roadster, and I asked my local section if any one wanted any. Only two members asked for a pair of exhaust pipes. As it is for my own Manxman, as with my other projects, you get made what you need, as bike restorations are only going to get more expensive. If as AJD has said, that Manxman silencers in stainless steel is a big fat NO, then just forget I have even tried to have them copied. The exhaust pipes go yellow, but not the silencers, and my Commando Roadster ones are still very shinny, as if they had been chrome plated.
hello well stainless steel as its uses but not for everything I had pipes and silencers from a well known makers Armour's Exhaust And with in a week they went yellow and rainbow colours like the back of a CD So never again I have silencer chromed At Quality Chrome There still like the day they were made nice chrome cost 120 quid for chroming And Anthony As already spent a shed load on Petrol just find someone to make a set well Allden Exhausts will and he very good at his job sent him loads of photos but still cannot give me a price until his made one in steel and as I have said they not be a peace of cake to make there are two baffles in side each other and a mushroom end cone at the end of these baffles then the end cones are rolled ends to the inside then you have two seam down ether side and the of set long triangular mounting plate witch are welded to the silencer these have to be in the right places or your down pipes will not fit, witch are 1.5/8ths full bore and angled to fit and allow space for the rev-counter drive cable to pass, So there going to be expensive to make and have them chromed they weight is 6.67kg each not to light then but a set should last you a life time my one,s are the originals now 58 year old and still looking good and the sound of music comes out of them when the bike is running yours anna j
Well done for getting this under way. Despite what AJD says, the NOC is interested in exactly this sort of project and you have done what she nevers has, you actually have a price guide from someone who is prepared to make them.
I know how particular you are about getting things right, so if you are happy with the supplier then I will talk to the board about funding. If we were to ask for say 10 pairs, would this bring the price down or frighten him off!
There are only 11 Manxman registered on the NOC web site so we will have to rely on yourself and AJD to provide some names of those members and non-members who would be interested.
Could you put together a few words that could go into the roadholder to excite Manxman owners.
After studying the pipes on our Atlas (well used) I am convinced they are Manxman pipes,big bore and with swan neck shape to easily miss the RC cable.
The Manxman silencers that I took to the company in Kent, are original Bracebridge Street made parts. From what I have gathered, there are two sizes of exhaust pipes that fit these silencers, so they may have a reducer in them. If the larger bore pipes are used, then there may be a clearance problem with the kick-start, as well as for the primary chain-case. They are a complicated design, and do not expect that the internal baffles will be replicated, as the only way to know exactly what they look like and to copy them, would be to cut them open and have a look. As these are an original parts, there may be a drawing out there that can be used to get the what the internal baffles look like, with their dimentions. I was also thinking of taking him a Nomad silencer, for this company to make copies, as to make those would be so much easier. The Manxman, sparks so much debate, that some times one wonders why I even went to get a cost in the first place. Then there will the other situation, where by, some owners will not want them, because they have not be fabricated exactly as per the original items. I am dammed if I do and dammed if I don't. I shall ask about the cost if I order ten pairs, if it would get the cost down, but to many owners, this may the deal breaker, to not buying them. I shall have to visit the company next week to ask again, and take the silencers with me to see what can be done. When my own Manxman is up on its wheels I shall be getting the exhaust pipes fabricated to the bike, so I can see if they can be made in steel, and then chromed. I am trying to get some thing done, but there is a lot of emotion attached to this particular Norton.
Anthony you are a true enthusiast who goes the extra mile to obtain information and replication of parts. You have come up with a costing for a rare and complex part i.e. around £800 for the pair in stainless steel which have correctly stated will not tarnish on silencers as I can actually vouch for on a number of my bikes. If as AJD has commented on in the past that a Manxman can be valued at £50K due to its rarity? then to obtain the correct crafted polished silencers in Stainless steel for that money it is a bargain.
Thank you for your kind comments Paul. I shall have to go back to the company and see how much they will charge for ten pairs of silencers as per Tony Ripley's suggestion. If a Manxman can be valued at £50K then how much would a 500cc Nomad be worth if there was just about 40 of them made and dispatched. I had the exhaust pipes and silencers for my Nomads made, when the bikes were at the company that makes exhaust pipes, so that they would fit correctly. I have a set of exhaust pipes for my 1973 Triumph T100R Daytona, that came in from the USA, and the brackets on the exhaust pipes sides, never lined up with the brackets from the frame. One needs to get exhaust pipes to fit, and near enough is no where near good enough. It either fits or it does not.
I have been informed by those that know far more than I do about the Manxman that there were two sizes of exhaust pipes diameters that were used in the Manxman's production. My silencers have a sleeve inserted in them, so they may our could be 1 3/8 and not the larger bore 1 5/8 exhaust pipes. I thought it was done by a previous owners, but this I have been informed is a factory added part. I am awaiting confirmation from those who know, before I can proceed any more with this venture. I shall go once more next week, and get a cost of ten pairs of silencers, as per Tony Ripley suggestion. It makes the P11 and Nomad series of bikes so much easier to get the exhaust systems made for.
Hello All who may be Interested these silencers have a 1.5/8ths bore and not any thing else But, Now you Do Not Need To cut one Open As I have had my ones looked at by a pumpers internal camera and inside there are two baffles one inside the other with a series of baffle plate and a mushroom cone end their weight is 6.7kg their made in sections with the two baffles one inside the other the cone taper front part outer and top and bottom outer the end cone outer top and bottom are then SIF Brass welded the the cone ends are gas welded one the ends the front is welded then last are the triangular mounting plate witch are off set for left and right side on the motorcycle but its the sound they make as its like music to the ear I am going to have a go at making one myself and see how it turns out, and there only 21inchs long I have a pair of originals on my Bike that been chromed by quality chrome Kingston upon Hull at a cost of 220 ponds each So their Not Cheap but they last my life time out, any Exhaust maker will not real know the cost of producing one without doing the job of making one first, the prices all read stated will be guide line prices to my mind the real cost is going to be with in the 700 pounds each after chroming , as these are one off jobs if a maker was turning out over a 100 or so the price would then drop buy 100 pound or so, at bracebridge street they would of hand to make so jigs up for production So the Manxman would of been a costly motorcycle to make, in its day, there for re-sale classic prices should then reflect this Ps as for the kick starts they had a larger radius crank so it missed the silencer the right hand pipe flows the curve of the frame and is set off by one inch from the frame the left hand foot rest needs a one inch spacers so the silencer cone end dose not hit the rear brake plate Yours Anna J
This company only makes their exhaust pipes and silencers in stainless steel so the need for them to be chromed will not be required. Therefore this cost will not be added to the finished item.
However, if somebody wanted theirs in a chrome finish, for an original look, and money being no object, you can chrome stainless steel; right?
The way things are going I have wondered why I actually bothered to get a quote for these silencers.
Hello. Well you now known how I felt back in 2014. With all the telephoning around that I did and ended up with a big phone bill. Yours Anna j
It is all down to the fact that you have said that owners do not want stainless steel silencers. It is not the fact I have found some one who is willing to make them. I have had an email from a member who is interested in getting a set of these silencers made for his own restoration. So one member has shown an interest. I can get just the one set produced if only one member wants them.
hello Now the Norton Manxman 650 did Not have Stainless steel Exhausts fitted But there a option if they do not go yellow all the time like some I have seen I had my silencers re-chromed And are very good will last a live time And the originals were still good after 58 years It all up to the owners in the end, But they must understand these parts are all one off parts so the costs will reflect this there are No Cheap options were hard to find parts are concerned And As the 50k remarks some have not read the thread right I stated that compared to the Manx market prices there was more Manx motorcycles made then the Norton Manxman.s 650s So the market should reflect this But seeing half of these may be reproduction racing machines witch cost more, but of late there as been a number of price hiking by some individuals that see the vintage and Classic market place a get rich quick market witch does not bode well with true enthusiasts as valuable motorcycles are at risk of thieves and criminals and then makes the market on a hole more and more expensive and is pricing out younger interested motorcyclist Yours Anna J
I believe we should be grateful for the continued interest in limited edition older machines, and the efforts to source spare parts by Anthony and Anna. Tooling silencers must be a £100k job, to produce 50,000 plus parts. A dozen samples can easily cost a similar amount. I tried setting up a new sidecar company some years ago, and the cost of Type Approval was in the millions, so the project died. I was involved in the certificating of the first Airbus A380 wing sets, I think billions went into proofing, the first wings were tested to destruction. So we are are now in Ferrari spares prices for our relics. Personally, if someone had a small sheet metal shop, I think they could be produced at £400 a pair, but who would take it on these days? Type approval certificating would kill it, as they need to be "E" marked to pass an MOT. I am now looking at matching what fits to get old vehicles on the road. I had to register as a vehicle manufacturer to register a prototype in 1972, it is much more difficult under the EU now. Silencers fall under emissions now. We all want to save the Planet, of course?, so what are we prepared to pay for that mythical purpose?
Hello now writing from my android and the EU has nothing to do with this as there reproduced parts to the Original patterns and there are no E numbers on 58 year old silencers And if I had the funds I would of sorted 10 pairs out back in 2014. But since I am surviving on less then 150 a week I cannot do this. Yours Anna j
With regard to stainless going yellow with heat, I fitted a brand new stainless exhaust manifold to my BSA Rocket 3 and prior to fitting it I put some Kreem 'Blue Shield' paste in it. I'm usually very sceptical of 'miracle' creams/liquids etc. but this stuff actually seems to work. After circa 1,000 miles the manifold is still OK. The instructions clearly state that the treatment must only be used on brand-new (clean) pipes.
One member has come forward to have one pair of Manxman silencers made, so if any one else wants them fabricated for their own restorations, then I can ask the company to make some more of them. The silencers that are being used are the OEM or genuine Norton parts. They will be in stainless steel, so they will never rust, and they will be fabricated as per the original Norton items.
Kreem Blue Shield is advertised for the inside of chromed pipes before the silencer..and not the silencer itself. Its supposed to keep the pipe temperature down enough to prevent blueing (oxidation) "as long as the engine is not running too lean".
When performing the chrome plating process on the silencer, don't forget to seal the holes. The entrance of the liquid (which is used in the process), oxidizes and prematurely corrodes the silencer from the inside. (I built a silencer for my 16h, several years ago and the chrome is perfect). Greetings and move on
Gerardo - Anthony is writing about stainless steel silencers - but actually it is possible to chromium plate stainless. Then it will presumably go blue instead of yellow if it gets too hot! Meanwhile the costs will mount up - and up...
Hello I have used silchrome before now and the results are very good prices are favourable. Stainless Will last ,but the original ones I have are 59 years old and still like they came out the factory so they last me out
Yours Anna j
The silencers have been delivered to be fabricated, so one pair will be made. I have been informed that it could take about a month to make a pair of them. The owner of the Manxman has a pair of original exhaust pipes so we are looking into get some Manxman exhaust pips fabricated. These will also be in stainless steel, and we have yet to get a cost for having them made.
How are things progressing with your silencers / mufflers from your side? I thought you might like to see the approach I'm taking on this side of the pond!
Will keep you posted how things go but it might be a little while to get to the next step due to not being able to get out and about
Best wishes to all
hello now for the last 7 years I have tried to get this club to get a small batch made but all I have had is criticism from a number of members and I asked for these for other members world wide And not for just the 11 in this country, in my research book I have found 53 Norton Manxman 650 worldwide Including the First one of the line 18-93601 shop7 now under restoration from the ground up and knowing this owner it will be better than new when it's finished, now next up is the 60th anniversary of these motorcycles witch where the next step to bigger models to come But I cannot see this club somehow celebrating this pasting in time, it seems to me like there is little to no interest from the EC membership and these people suppose to be Norton enthusiasts but where is the enthusiasm hard to find parts nothing much done lightweight hard to find metal-ware nothing much done there ether, So Why are us members paying for just 12 roadholders and a plastic members card its not good is it I will see how many of you cristsize this thread yours anna j
As the country has just about stopped, and we are not allowed out I do not know how the fabrication of the Manxman silencers are progressing. I was informed that last time I went, that the problem was getting the end cone fabricated. May be by now the problem has been over come. The one owner that contacted me had a pair of genuine Manxman exhaust pipes, but a bike was required to be able to fabricate them to get them made, as they cannot be made with out a bike to work on. I am staying very positive, that these silencers and exhaust pipes can be made, and that owners who require them will be supplied. Until I can go and see the company that has these items, there is nothing I can do at this time.
Thanks for the update, Anthony. Good luck on your side and I will keep you posted from over here. Cheers, Mike
I read a comment that Manxman silencers may have been Atlas items turned 90° with the Manxman bracket welded on top at the factory hence the side seams. With no knowledge of this bike are they actually the same shape or completely different? My Atlas in the 70,s had long Dunstall/ Conti type silencers when I bought it in pieces and only recently realised these weren,t the original shape.
The Manxman silencers are made in a different way to those from the Atlas. They appear to be two long steel pressings brazed together. These needing two lengthy joining seams. Inside there were very complex inner baffles and then end cones added by means of more brazing. The Atlas silencer had a single rolled sheet centre which only need one brazed seam to join the edges. The baffling was simpler.
I would guess that the cost of making two press moulds was far greater than a sheet roller and this plus the extra brazing probably led to the change after only a year of production. Then both the Mk 1 Atlas, Mk 2 Atlas and Mk 2 Manxman all got the standard silencers.
Thank you Neill and Philip, this is very helpful information. Best regards, Mike
hello all this time, I been telling you all that Manxman silencers are one-off and difficult to make I have spoken at length to many well-known silencers makes Armours senior manage Brontarno manager Unquity Euipe main man and many other top men in this field and not one with even look at them including Faken exhausts they all told me there to complexed to make there are two baffle plates one inside the other and a conical end cap inside the silencer and their weight is 6.60kg the steel is 1.5mm thick and the big long triangle welded on top these are set for left and right and the left as a one-inch spacer so the silencer end dose not hit the rear backplate for the brake both are passenger footpeg mounted the spacer fit behind the left footpeg silencer mounting bracket the right one has to tooked in tiet to the frame so the kickstart can past with catching the silencer that why the right pipe is close to the frame you should have a half-inch gap between frame and downpipe, the left side is one inch gap from frame to pipe the pipe have to be inline with the silencer as there is NO ajustment on the silncer they are both fixed by the triangle mountting plate, that why the cost of these items will not be chep if you want a good job doing that will last you a life tme Anyway to add to all this if Anhtony can get some made on mater what there made from stainless or steel It will be better then nothing at that yours anna j
I've found this realy exciting contribution:
Hello well I was sent This footage some 3 days Ago Interesting yes more help needed if only the club would interact with these machines more and show some Enthusiasm ,yours Anna j