Manxman Silencers

Anthony - I remember when I had stainless silencers on a car, they were thinner and therefore weighed less than standard.  That was because they added no corrosion allowance, and the material was a bit stronger than mild steel.  I wonder it that's the case here?  That's a bonus if so, and also they should last more or less for ever (unless you use your bike in the sea..)

That's best part of £800 per pair though...!?

You might be better asking in the monthly magazine. I should think Manxman owners as a percentage of club members is fairly small, so the number of Manxman owners likely to read anything on this forum will be vanishingly small.

Ian

Well done Anthony for at least getting the information, but I tend to agree with Ian, re- publicity about this subject  When Anna gets on the case everyone will be aware of your efforts anyway.

Regards John (missing bolt!) O 

hello  well Silencer in stainless steel  your for ever cleaning them they go yellow in a weeks and dis-colour very easily  and steel silencer are 1.5 mm thick steel sheet the only bug bear is making the con ends and there is one silencer inside another  and a mushroom con end inside the end of the two silencers  and the triangle mounting plates are off set  for left and right  and must fit correctly   too mate up with the down pipes witch them self's are a work of art  as there full bore 1.5/8th  with swans necks ether side  there not like and other Norton exhaust system  And as Far as the Norton Owners Club Getting any Made  You can forget this  They have little Interest in the Norton Manxman 650.  What so ever  its been a up hill battle all the way to get any recognition with in this club and the Classic motorcycle world   as a hole  thats why they where long forgotten for well over 58 years   by now would of had some Manxman 650 pipes and Silencer made , IF I had the funding  But having to survive on 140 quid a week its hard  thats why anything as not been done  No funds                 Yours  anna j  

hello well stainless steel as its uses  but not for everything  I had pipes and silencers from a well known makers  Armour's  Exhaust And with in a week they went yellow  and rainbow colours  like the back of a CD  So never again  I have silencer chromed  At Quality Chrome  There still like the day they were made  nice chrome  cost 120 quid  for chroming  And Anthony  As already spent a shed load on Petrol  just find someone to make a set  well  Allden Exhausts will and he very good at his job  sent him loads of photos but still cannot give me a price until his made one  in steel  and as  I have said they not be a peace of cake to make  there are two baffles in side each other and a mushroom end cone   at the end of these baffles then the end cones  are rolled ends to the inside  then you have two seam down ether side  and the of set long triangular mounting plate witch are welded to the silencer these have to be in the right places  or your down pipes will not fit,  witch are 1.5/8ths full bore  and angled to fit and allow  space for the rev-counter drive cable to pass, So there going to be expensive  to make and have them chromed  they weight is 6.67kg each  not to light then  but a set should last you a life time  my one,s are the originals now 58 year old and still looking good and the sound of music comes out of them when the bike is running    yours  anna j    

Hi Anthony,

Well done for getting this under way. Despite what AJD says, the NOC is interested in exactly this sort of project and you have done what she nevers has, you actually have a price guide from someone who is prepared to make them.

I know how particular you are about getting things right, so if you are happy with the supplier then I will talk to the board about funding. If we were to ask for say 10 pairs, would this bring the price down or frighten him off!

There are only 11 Manxman registered on the NOC web site so we will have to rely on yourself and AJD to provide some names of those members and non-members who would be interested.

Could you put together a few words that could go into the roadholder to excite Manxman owners.

Regards

Tony

After studying the pipes on our Atlas (well used) I am convinced they are Manxman pipes,big bore and with swan neck shape to easily miss the RC cable. 

Anthony you are a true enthusiast who goes the extra mile to obtain information and replication of parts. You have come up with a costing for a rare and complex part i.e. around £800 for the pair in stainless steel which have correctly stated will not tarnish on silencers as I can actually vouch for on a number of my bikes. If as AJD has commented on in the past that a Manxman can be valued at £50K due to its rarity?  then to obtain the correct crafted polished silencers in Stainless steel for that money it is a bargain.

However, if somebody wanted theirs in a chrome finish, for an original look, and money being no object, you can chrome stainless steel; right?

Hello. Well you now known how I felt back in 2014. With all the telephoning around that I did and ended up with a big phone bill. Yours Anna j 

I believe we should be grateful for the continued interest in limited edition older machines, and the efforts to source spare parts by Anthony and Anna. Tooling silencers must be a £100k job, to produce 50,000 plus parts. A dozen samples can easily cost a similar amount. I tried setting up a new sidecar company some years ago, and the cost of Type Approval was in the millions, so the project died. I was involved in the certificating of the first Airbus A380 wing sets, I think billions went into proofing, the first wings were tested to destruction. So we are are now in Ferrari spares prices for our relics. Personally, if someone had a small sheet metal shop, I think they could be produced at £400 a pair, but who would take it on these days? Type approval certificating would kill it, as they need to be "E" marked to pass an MOT. I am now looking at matching what fits to get old vehicles on the road. I had to register as a vehicle manufacturer to register a prototype in 1972, it is much more difficult under the EU now. Silencers fall under emissions now. We all want to save the Planet, of course?, so what are we prepared to pay for that mythical purpose?

With regard to stainless going yellow with heat, I fitted a brand new stainless exhaust manifold to my BSA Rocket 3 and prior to fitting it I put some Kreem 'Blue Shield' paste in it. I'm usually very sceptical of 'miracle' creams/liquids etc. but this stuff actually seems to work. After circa 1,000 miles the manifold is still OK. The instructions clearly state that the treatment must only be used on brand-new (clean) pipes.

Kreem Blue Shield is advertised for the inside of chromed pipes before the silencer..and not the silencer itself. Its supposed to keep the pipe temperature down enough to prevent blueing (oxidation) "as long as the engine is not running too lean".

When performing the chrome plating process on the silencer, don't forget to seal the holes. The entrance of the liquid (which is used in the process), oxidizes and prematurely corrodes the silencer from the inside.
(I built a silencer for my 16h, several years ago and the chrome is perfect).
Greetings and move on

Gerardo - Anthony is writing about stainless steel silencers - but actually it is possible to chromium plate stainless.  Then it will presumably go blue instead of yellow if it gets too hot!  Meanwhile the costs will mount up - and up...

http://www.silchrome.co.uk/post/you-asked-can-we-chrome-plate-stainless-steel

Hello I have used silchrome before now and the results are very good prices are favourable. Stainless Will last ,but the original ones I have are 59 years old and still like they came out the factory so they last me out   

Yours Anna j

hello now for the last 7 years I have tried to get this club to get a small batch made but all I have had is criticism from a number of members  and I asked for these  for other members world wide And not for just  the 11 in this country,  in my research book I have found 53 Norton Manxman 650 worldwide  Including the First one of the line  18-93601 shop7  now under restoration from the ground up  and knowing this owner it will be better than new  when it's finished,  now next up is the 60th anniversary of these motorcycles witch where  the next  step to bigger models to come  But I cannot see this club somehow celebrating this pasting  in time,  it seems to me like there is little to no interest from the EC membership and these people suppose to be Norton enthusiasts  but where is the enthusiasm  hard to find parts  nothing much done lightweight hard to find metal-ware  nothing much done there ether,  So Why are us members paying for just 12 roadholders  and a plastic members card  its not good is it   I will see how many of you cristsize this thread      yours  anna j  

The Manxman silencers are made in a different way to those from the Atlas. They appear to be two long steel pressings brazed together. These needing two lengthy joining seams. Inside there were very complex inner baffles and then end cones added by means of more brazing. The Atlas silencer had a single rolled sheet centre which only need one brazed seam to join the edges. The baffling was simpler. 

I would guess that the cost of making two press moulds was far greater than a sheet roller and this plus the extra brazing probably led to the change after only a year of production. Then both the Mk 1 Atlas, Mk 2 Atlas and Mk 2 Manxman all got the standard silencers.

Thank you Neill and Philip, this is very helpful information. Best regards, Mike

hello all this time, I been telling you all that Manxman silencers are one-off and difficult to make I have spoken at length to many well-known silencers makes  Armours senior manage  Brontarno  manager Unquity Euipe  main man  and many other top men in this field  and not one with even look at them  including Faken exhausts  they all told me there to complexed to make  there are two baffle plates one inside the other and a conical end cap inside the silencer and their weight is 6.60kg  the steel is 1.5mm thick  and the big long triangle welded on top these are set for left and right  and the left as a one-inch spacer so the silencer end dose not hit the rear backplate for the brake  both are passenger footpeg mounted  the spacer fit behind the left footpeg  silencer mounting bracket  the right one has to tooked  in tiet to the frame so the kickstart can past with  catching  the silencer  that why the right pipe is close to the frame you should have a half-inch gap between frame and downpipe, the left side is one inch gap from frame to pipe the pipe have to be inline with the silencer as there is NO ajustment on the silncer they are both fixed  by the triangle mountting plate, that why the cost of these items will not be chep if you want a good job doing that will last you a life tme Anyway to add to all this  if Anhtony can get some made  on mater what there made from  stainless or steel It will be better then nothing at that                 yours  anna j       

I've found this realy exciting contribution:

https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/3d-scanning-manxman-parts.30254

Fritz

Hi guys,

I thought you might find this interesting. As you may know, I have a Norton Manxman and I'm intending on restoring it to original specification as much as possible.  

The Manxman originally came with the cigar-shaped mufflers/silencers with the horizontal seam that you see in the video. My friend Sam kindly loaned me his mufflers and I'm in the process of trying to have a pattern pair made.

But knowing that it will take some time to complete the restoration, I thought it would be a little bit of fun to hear how they sound compared to the standard Norton Atlas / Dominator mufflers.

In the video, my friend Chuck and I are comparing the sound of the Manxman silencers with the Atlas/Dominator style he has installed on his lovely 1962 650/SS

At some point, I will want to know what the pattern parts should sound like and thought this might be a good reference.

Cheers, Mike

Special note:  I would be most grateful if you wouldn't mention anything about face-masks or what's going on at the moment and just comment on Norton motorcycles and the silencer / muffler comparison.

https://youtu.be/Bh727BOURRM

Late 1980s Kawasaki ZL 600-4  system £690 by Predator 304 Stainless steel including 20% Vat!

£800 sounds pretty good to me!

John