Ok, shall we try again.... New member with ES2 project

I am no expert, but my understanding is that the main difference between the 18 and ES2 is the plunger frame on the ES2, later followed by the swinging arm, where as the 18 stayed as a rigid frame throughout its life. The engines are very similar (I didn't come across any differences when trying to choose between the 18 and the ES2 for my first Norton) and you probably wouldnt notice a difference between the model 18 engine you have and an ES2 one.

Hope this is of some help, and I'm sure more people will come allong who have far more info than me.

Andy

I think the chief differences between the model 18 and ES2 are just in the frames, the engines would be otherwise identical.

The ES2 did make the transition into rear suspension while the 18 slipped into obsolescence, your project sounds like fun.

Mike Pemberton can help you with any engine bits to speed things up a mite, RGM and Norvil carry a fair amount of single bits.

Regards,

Albert

Previously wrote:

I am new to the whole Norton single's thing (sounds like a dating club!) but I have fancied building an old style Norton race bike for a while now. But I am just a poor working man,so an Inter or Manx is way out of my league. So I thought I would have a go at building an ES2 Inter/Manx replica in the loosest sort of way, as money allows.

So first thing on my shopping list was a garden gate plunger frame, which I found on eBay land, and then it was time to start collecting parts, as and when I could afford or find them, luckily for me I have some good friends and I was given a set of Model 19 cases, and a lay down box, Another friend sold me a set of long Roadholders, and a set of rear springs, and I also picked up a 47 model 18 motor, although I am not sure I am going to use this yet, and may well offer it as a trade for either an ES2 motor or some parts to go in my model 19 cases.

So my frame is a 1951 ES2 as far as I can tell from the numbers, although it does not have the F letter prefix before the 4.

[IMG]http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v37/p717072407.jpg[/IMG]

More can be seen here...

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

Kevin.

Previously wrote:

Previously wrote:

I am new to the whole Norton single's thing (sounds like a dating club!) but I have fancied building an old style Norton race bike for a while now. But I am just a poor working man,so an Inter or Manx is way out of my league. So I thought I would have a go at building an ES2 Inter/Manx replica in the loosest sort of way, as money allows.

So first thing on my shopping list was a garden gate plunger frame, which I found on eBay land, and then it was time to start collecting parts, as and when I could afford or find them, luckily for me I have some good friends and I was given a set of Model 19 cases, and a lay down box, Another friend sold me a set of long Roadholders, and a set of rear springs, and I also picked up a 47 model 18 motor, although I am not sure I am going to use this yet, and may well offer it as a trade for either an ES2 motor or some parts to go in my model 19 cases.

So my frame is a 1951 ES2 as far as I can tell from the numbers, although it does not have the F letter prefix before the 4.

[IMG]http://kevindean.zenfolio.com/img/s11/v37/p717072407.jpg[/IMG]

More can be seen here...

http://backstreetthunder.wordpress.com/

Kevin.

I looked at the pictures. There is nothing wrong with iron head singles, and that would be more in line with your plunger frame. The engine performance can be improved by fitting a modified 16H piston. The piston would need to be shortened, and valve pockets cut into the crown, but the domed piston gives a useful increase in compression, which can obviously be raised since you are not forced to use the "Pool" petrol which was all that was available when your engine was new.

Hi Kevin, the best thing I did when restoring my ES2 was to give the engine to Mike Pemberton of Pushrod Performance. There were so many things fundamentally wrong with it, things I would never have noticed. He was also able to set the valve timing spot on for a quite astounding increase in performance as well as fit the essential modern material kit like unleaded valve seats, Colsibro guides and austenitic valves. I don't see this stuff as exotic, it's essential if you're going to really use it.

Adam

I cant see any point in having a classic bike be it Norton or anything else,unless you work on it yourself.If you want reliability and performance,and something that requires a hundred special tools to work on it,you may as well get a Jappa.It wont cost a premium price,like a classic ,either.Just my opinion,not criticism of anyone.Regards John.

Hi Kevin

I believe the engine cases for the Model 50, ES2 and Model 19 are pretty much identical. The mechanical differences would be chiefly cylinder bore(s), crankshaft stroke(s) and a smaller combustion chamber in the model 50. Of course cylinder barrel heights will be different too.

I chuckled at John's comment about Jappa bikes and special tools. I need more special tools for my Norton Model 19S and BSA Gold Star than I need for either my 1981 Kawasaki Gpz 1100 or my 1978 Yamaha SR 500.

My garage has room for bikes from Japan and Great Britain, as does the road.

Regards,

Albert

Hi Kevin, one thing springs to mind from my own experience: if the main bearings drop out easily from the cases and especially if their housing is smooth and shiny then they've probably been spinning in the cases. Not good. If so, get advice as to the right type of Loctite product to use on reassembly to fix this, and the right way to use it. I can't remember regarding hot or cold cases/bearings but I'm sure someone here will know. If not Mike Pemberton, the singles expert.

Oh, and the sludge trap of course.

Hi Kevin,

not 100% certain here, but Norvils website lists the ball bearings as follows:

part # 017714 ball-steering-5/16"- set of 17 - ES2/18/19/50/Mod7/77

do you have a parts list to confirm the ball bearing part number?

Skip

Kevin previously wrote:

Blimey those bearing are expensive from Norvil,

Hi!

I get all of my rolling element bearings at a bearing stockists, except for big end type, then it's bend over and don't complain time.

regards,

Albert

Its crazy how one bearing can be $5.00, and one that looks identical is $100 ?! There can behundredsof different bearing specs for the same size bearing, so I like to get mine from reputable bike shops to be sure it has all the right innerds & spec.s , plus its my small way of keeping them inbusiness, it would suck if all the Norton Pars places closedbecausewe all wanted to save a dollar or two.

Riddle me this Batman, How is it I can order one superblend main bearing 4 hours from my home at Dommiracer for $160.15, plus tax & delivery which brings the bill to approx. $180 -or- I can order the exact same FAG bearing with the exact same numbers, from the same country of origin, in the same box , from Norvil (the supposed price leader) for $72 (45.58 GBP), no tax, add for shipping, my total is $88 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont understand it? Thats a price difference of $108 (68 GBP) !!!!!!!!!!!!

Quantity and trade discounts are common in the bearing retail sector.Trade customers get 25 to 50% off list,volume customers get 70 to 90% off list,depending on manufacturer.More discount on Chinese bearings ,less on German or Japanese .Nobody pays list,and then theres the Surplus bearing market offering even bigger discounts on old stock,US made bearings from the fifties and sixties.When you buy loose balls,allways check size.Some Ive had were up to 004 off size,larger or smaller.Theyre meant for applications like door slides,and swivel chairs.Regards John.

Hi Kevin,

great photo! Looks like my situation! A '50 model 7 on the bench, also with wrenches & a coffee cup alongside

Skip